Mike Monson's Practice Notes: Dos

Still intrigued,

Please elaborate on why you think this as I also am very much leaning towards that too.

Nik, I don't understand all this at all -- I'm more on the level of -- do "this" and THAT will probably happen. Don't know why and trying to really figure it out intellectually seems like a waste of time right now.
That said, I'm at a stage where the meditation is taking on a life of it's own -- I'm doing my usual noting practice and i get pulled into fruition after fruition without even trying and those fruitions create an after glow of good feeling.
what is going on physically I'm not really sure

edit: it's strange to write such words. I wonder if I really know what I am talking about. But, something wonderful is happening -- I'll leave it at that.

I'm still pretty fascinated by all the new things going on in my practice and my life and have been going on instinct for about a week now.
I'm doing a lot of resolving and some of it works great and some seems to have no effect. Resolutions to have fruitions are almost like pushing a button. Resolutions to enter jhanas so far aren't working.
Last nights sit: about 50 minutes. Started off with powerful vibrations. Noting breath, noticed vibrations. Didn't notice dark night before knowing I was at equanimity. Felt compelled toward frutions. Did get some vague sense of going back down and starting over several times. Did a lot of experimenting: tried to resolveto get into jhanas; tried to resolve for different types of frutions and this seemed to work, I think; tried to see movement up and down the arc; worked on just breathe noting; worked on just vibration noting; worked a lot on breath noting accompanied by extremely minute attention to detail (this seems to be the most effective overall for insight).
Jhanas: sometimes i think I am in one briefly but am never sure. There is a lot of growth to be had in that area and, again, I refuse to stress over it. (it's a llittle weird to read other practice journals about people in first path who are talking about all the different jhanas like it's no big deal to go in and out of them, but that is them and this is me and I have my own door(s) )
Life is so great right now it's hard to imagine creating little problems over things I decide are important for some reason -- the universe is laying at my doorstop prizes and surprises I could never think up on my own.

Now that you can push buttons to make them happen, can you please elaborate on what fruitions are like FOR YOU?

I'll try. I'm sure that my ability to have them is greater right now than my ability to really notice all the details. In fact, kenneth said that at my level, the details are hard to spot.
Right now two kinds.
1. As a result of a resolution to have one. Usually right after the resolve I have an urgency to pull my eyes up into my head. Everything behind my closed eyes is brighter. Energy (sometimes a bit weak sometimes very strong) is pushing upward to my foreward and/or scalp/crown. I notice flutters/vibrations behind my eyes and/or in my third eye area. I have a compulsion also to kind of empty my mind. I apply basic attention to the flutters/vibrations and pay very careful attention to their beginning, ending, stopping, and gaps between one stopping and another starting. sooner or later and this is while the energy is still moving upwards and the eyes are still going back, there will be a sort of jerking feeling, like I'm being startled out of a sleep or a daydream. this can go on and on and on or just happen once or twice. Sometimes afterwards the empty mind compulsion is strong and I just kind of hang for a while a feel little bits of joy.
2. the last couple of days in my nighttime sits they've happened a little more spontaneously at, I guess, the peak of a cycle. The compulsion to empty and pull back eyes is much much stronger and the vibrations are much more centered in the middle of my forehead and I feel pulled pulled pulled and it feels very nice and also just inevitable. I have NO control over it if I just relax and let it happen. These can put me into a VERY good mood at times.
I hope that helps. I have more to say about whether or not or when I may be having the different kinds of frutions but I'll do that later.
Tom, i really think it is true that if one just gets to High E and then hangs there in a real simple, gentle, concentrated state on each object as it appears, frutions are just ..... there.

Wow, nice description Mike!!!

Thanks Mike for putting into words some of my own stuff right now. I especially identify with the jerking/startled out of sleep feeling that comes with a fruition. To me, it is the one thing that seems to really stand out and along with the bliss lets me know that it happened and wasn't just an energy surge.

Great notes.

Yeah, great reports, Mike! This stuff is hard to put into words. You're doing so beautifully--sticking to the facts and conveying your experience in a straightforward way. It's really helpful!

As I read this thread this morning I'm just really happy for you, Mike, because you have been such a great correspondent on these message boards and you've hung in there for all the crap that goes along with a vipassana practice, especially the early part of the practice. I'm just grooving on that. Just wanted to say this out loud and thank you for hanging in there for so long and being an amazing, true inspiration to the rest of us.

"
As I read this thread this morning I'm just really happy for you, Mike, because you have been such a great correspondent on these message boards and you've hung in there for all the crap that goes along with a vipassana practice, especially the early part of the practice. I'm just grooving on that. Just wanted to say this out loud and thank you for hanging in there for so long and being an amazing, true inspiration to the rest of us.

"

Thanks Chris, your support means so much to me.
I remember about a year ago -- not sure when exactly -- and your practice notes started. So fascinating and inspiring. For some reason I could just tell that your life was essentially no different than mine in its priorities and bussiness yet you were really getting it done. Your posts held out possibilities to me of what could happen if I just sat down and did the practice -- you made every thing seem REAL, for me and made me want it even more.

I've had so many days of just enjoying new states. Something IS different and it is good. Yesterday I woke up after too many days of 4 hour sleep nights and was tired and a little cranky. Suffering. Inevitably, I think, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop -- looking to see when or if or for how long the good stuff will go away.
Plus, I am CERTAIN that any kind of expectations or projections or resistence on my part will have a huge effect on things. So, I just rode it out and kept my slogan "whatever is really happening" going.
At lunch when I sat I made it okay if I feel asleep - I knew I probably needed rest way more than vipassana. Well, I did sleep for the entire hour and woke up refreshed.
then, about 3:30 I went out to the rooftop patio and for 15 mintues sat and had fruitions that were strong and joyful. The rest of the day at work things were just wonderful.
On the van ride home I started to call up fruitions but kind of stopped (don't know why) somewhere just before the fruition spot and just kind of rode that state all the way home. At home I sat and and tried to gauge the arc but just felt A&P and then High E then frutions like one, two, three.
I tried to work on jhana again and maybe went in and out I'm not sure.
The rest of the night and up to now I'm stil in a state of no friction.
I have a LOT of work to do here at the office.

One more thing!
what do I mean by "no friction?"
okay, things are going on . everywhere. the same things as always. objects: thoughts, feelings, sensations, etc. I'm doing stuff, other people are doing stuff -- life is living.
However, during this "no friction" phase there is no self/object/entity/thing reaching out to try to change, analyze, resist, reflect on, manipulate all the stuff happening. what more could one ask for?

Mike, you're an inspiration.

Thanks for sharing it all...I'm watching this space .

All the best,

Serena

"I apply basic attention to the flutters/vibrations and pay very careful attention to their beginning, ending, stopping, and gaps between one stopping and another starting. sooner or later and this is while the energy is still moving upwards and the eyes are still going back, there will be a sort of jerking feeling, like I'm being startled out of a sleep or a daydream."

This reads exactly like how I am experiencing them with eye fluttering as well.

Hello.
I'm realizing that i really don't know much about post SE stuff. I've been so focused on getting path i haven't paid much attention to what comes next. however, i have a hunch that the practice is basically the same: note and disembed.
But, are the next paths dependent on being able to achieve all those jhanas 1-8 and I guess beyond? I can't tell.
I am getting interested in somehow getting good at jhanas and am starting to work at that a little bit.
my ''no friction" phase lasted all day (god it makes work so so so much better)
then, last night my state changed a bit in that I started to feel, i guess, some fear, some disgust, some definite misery (no big deal really, I just watched it mostly).

edit: upon further observation maybe the "no friction" phase didn't really leave. I just let all those "bad" states come and go and didn't try to do anything about them. States and stages will come and go and go and come.

morning sit 45 minutes (i'm posting a lot but I can't help it that im fascinated by myself)
I didn't make any resolutions about frutions and I didn't experience the a and p, high E, frution one two three that I have been all week. my gut told me it is time to slow way down and take note of thoughts and feelings and feeling tones as they arise. Noticed a lot of tension and pain and desire for states. (I really don't want to make my life about chasing after special experiences, instead I want to always be cultivating the ability to be at peace with whatever is happening)

"I really don't want to make my life about chasing after special experiences, instead I want to always be cultivating the ability to be at peace with whatever is happening."-Mike Monson

Huzzah!

Freedom in heaven, freedom in hell.

Another weekend with teenaged kids mostly gone and a wife at work both days -- so, I sat a lot (and watched about 10 episodes of "six feet under" from the entire series set I got my son for his birthday).
Stuck with two practices, in a way:
1. Note rise and fall of breath and notice each detail of all other objects during each phase of the breath.
2. Attempts to attain jhanas.
Number one: easy to get really concentrated this way. Still can't really notice the arc in any detail, except for my last sit last night when it seemed obvious that at the very beginning I was at A&P and then dissolution. Dark night -- can't spot it yet, must be so obvious that I miss it. When doing the first one I'd get so concentrated on my breath that I could feel the tug of bliss on the edges and I'd make a resolution to enter jhana and I don't think I really did for longer than a moment or two. There is a lot of detail about that I'll save for another time, if at all.
After my last 50 min sitting (which featured multiple very intense fruitions) I could feel all kinds of vibratory and rapturous activity all over and I was in a great and gidy mood. In bed, I had another one of those experiences in which vipassana and fruitions just kept happening spontaneously and sleep and meditation were all mixed up. I eventually feel into a very deep sleep before getting up at four.
Now, I feel great: friction free and happy and energetic.
(Oh, during the afternoon yesterday I went through a couple of hours of fear and misery and disgust)

The other shoe isn't dropping. (Yet?)
I continue to feel significantly different -- way less suffering, way more perspective, a new kind of positive all-pervading energy that is making my days so much better. I definitely have periods in which for a little while at least I feel compelled to pay more attention to more fearful or negative ideas or emotions but, because I have good instruction, so far I just ride those times out knowing that they are inevitable and part of the program and that they will end -- and they do.
My sits are wonderful (it is SO weird to be so positive!) with new and nice states and a lot of experimenting that feels right. I love the power of resolutions and do a lot of experimenting with that.
I call up and review the three kinds of fruitions a lot and feel a little indulgent but that doesn't stop me .
I'd like to have a better understanding of everything that is going on and that is to come but I'm not worried about it -- I'll eventually figure out anything that is really important and just drop the rest.

Sounds like a review cycle... Nice, those are a ton of fun... but of course you understand impermanence... ; )

"Sounds like a review cycle... Nice, those are a ton of fun... but of course you understand impermanence... ; ) "

I'm real clear on impermenance (I'm ready for anything) but clueless on "review cycles" -- what is a review cycle? Seriously.

Hey Mike,

A review Cycle is... hmm... I think others could explain it better. For me it meant that for a couple months I continued to cycle. I felt great a lot of the time, It was fantastic and confusing at the same time. Ron I think has provided some of the most lucid descriptions of what it is like...

Am I a stream entrant who can't do concentration jhanas or is the fact that I can't do concentration jhanas a sign that maybe I'm not really a stream entrant?
The common wisdom here and on Ingram's site is that even if you have poor jhana abilities before SE, afterwards you'll find yourself able to access all kinds of wonderful jhanic states and be able to effortlessly glide up and down the arc (just read the various practice threads of some of our post path yogis here, they talk about doing this like it is no big deal). In fact, this ability is supposed to be a sign that one has had path and fruition.

So, I've never been in a concentration jhana. Never. Not before SE and not now. I've tried to will my mind to go there and it just won't.

I have a talk with Kenneth on Saturday in which I will discuss this with him.

Now, my whole intention with all this stuff was to be happy and I'm getting happy so I will NOT suffer over this too much, but it certainly makes me wonder about things, you know?

Last night I t ried to access these jhanas using advice from Nik and when it didn't work (again) I started to feel pissed and then I just couldn't muster up the energy to feel really bad about it and I just went back to regular noting/disembedding vipassana and had a wonderful experience. So, I'm not really complaining.

Just reporting the facts.

You may have to up your concentration skills, Mike. Go back to using an anchoring object like the breath or abdomen or better yet a kasina. Focus on the kasina gently. Just stare at it until you feel the vibrations get pleasant on the body. Close your eyes, and "dwell" in those sensations. Don't note them. Just "ride" them. Smile and feel soaked in them. Let the mind lightly "touch" them and see what happens. Keep experimenting. And not having automatic access to jhana doesn't mean you aren't 1st path. They become "easier" to access. But if you have never had any previous concentration training to back you up then maybe you need to do that. Give it a go!

I second the "ride the sensations" advice. I'm working on building my concentration up too, and just found out about that same technique Monday night. Its been working wonders. : )

For me, I focus on the movement of the breath throughout my body, centered in the abdomen area. As the breath rises and falls, I continue to focus on the movement until the feeling becomes something similar to floating in the ocean and being lifted up and down by the breath/waves. I ended up with a very stable sense of concentration that persisted even after I'd stopped the practice (which was new for me), but I also had a kind of stuffy feeling in my head (no jhana bliss). I think I may need to get the energy out of my head somehow to really experience the jhana properly.

In any case, that's what seems to be working for me, concentration-wise. Hope it can prove helpful for you!