Ron's Stream-Entry Journal

OK - I'm convinced that it is the 7th. I watched the video and what I'm experiencing is pretty clearly there, though I think I'm mixing up 7th and 8th a little in my description.

In 7th the predominant feeling is release and expansion. It is a little like 5th, but the emphasis is not on space, just on this sensation of release and the calm that follows. As the calm sets in there is the tendency for the attention to move to the spot above and behind the eyes.

When the attention rests on that spot for a brief time, there is a sensation that I can only describe as "flickering", but what exactly is flickering I can't perceive.

Even more going on: I think I'm accessing PL jhanas.

Yesterday I was in the 8th, which is really tricky to describe. It starts out as a sensation around the third eye area, or really behind it, but it shifts into this experience where there is an object of meditation, but it is as if the mind can't apprehend what the object is. As if every time the mind went out and contacted the object there in the third eye area, it just slipped right off before it could get a feel for it.

So, I was in this state of slipping on and off the object, when a new sensation started to build, a light tension around the crown and a sense of moving upward, or squeezing upward, though I hesitate to call it that because it wasn't unpleasant or effortful, it happened on its own. Then, like in the 7th there was a sensation of release, and feeling of what I can only describe as "wide-openess." It was followed by a swell of positive emotions that were not rough or overpowering like in the A&P, but warm and uplifting. Calm, joyful, grateful, loving, content... these are elements of what the emotions were. I felt a distinct set of shifts from one "space" to another with new positive feelings being emphasized (without necessarily losing the others). I was a little overwhelmed by it and didn't really observe the shift very well, but I am really looking forward to exploring this new territory.

Also, following instructions from Kenneth on accessing Nirodha, I starting looking for it. I did find a likely candidate for it as there seemed to be a sense of powering down, but I need to cultivate it some more and see what happens.

So was that cessation a while back third path? I'm still not decided, as pre-third folks have accessed this stuff before...

Last night I sat for 40 minutes and started by getting into the witness, which I've found helps to move me along much more quickly. The trip up the arc was rather swift and I was in the 8th jhana in about 10 or 15 minutes. Again, this one is so tricky to describe. A feeling of being both in and out of a state along with in contact and out of contact with an object was noticed. Very subtle though.

The move into PL one was slow and there was a definite sensation of opening up and a "hum" of positive emotion that for some reason is hard for me to put my finger on. It seemed like a mix of a few emotions rather than one dominant emotion. The next few shifts in the PL jhanas had bodily sensations accompanying them. A focus on the third eye area and at one point a vibratory energy connecting my abdomen to my crown. All very pleasant.

I continued to attempt at NS but it's a no go so far. I found a spot where it seems to live and there is a powering down feeling that accompanies it, but no event horizon yet.

"I continued to attempt at NS but it's a no go so far. I found a spot where it seems to live and there is a powering down feeling that accompanies it, but no event horizon yet."

Good job Ron!
Try and keep "pressing" down on the NS spot as long as you can. It takes a pretty big ramp up in concentration to do it, but I found that in the early days of playing with NS, I was letting up on the spot too early. It should be a gentle pressure, don't force - just keep with it and be willing to surrender sensations.
Good luck!

What he said: Good work Ron...

Thanks guys!

An update on NS (I posted this a bit on Antero's thread as well): Yesterday I snuck off on my lunch break and went to the chapel (I work in a hospital) and had a 40 minute sit. This was a huge luxury for me, as the new baby is keeping me jumping around at home. I resolved to experience NS and went up to the PL jhanas and from there started placing the attention on the spot where the powering down was experienced. This time I could stay with it for quite a while so I just kept at it. The result was that I feel that I reached the event horizon a few times but then something happened so quickly that I'm not sure if it was NS or if I got "bumped out" of the whole thing. What would happen is that I would feel a sudden energy surge, experience some shaking, have an infinitely tiny second of darkness, and would find myself out of the whole experience, wondering what I did wrong.

It seems like it is very close, and maybe even happening, but it feels incomplete and my attempt feels unskillful. Any advice would be welcome...

Hi Ron

We talked about some of the things we did for NS to work here at the Hamilton Project.

thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2010/09/...y-hour.html#comments

Might be helpful.

Thanks for the link Nik - what an eye opener! It was really affirming because I had been focusing on the same spot (back of the head, to the right and bottom) that you all are talking about. I tried working at it from PL jhana 2 and continue to have this quick shuddering experience. I am beginning to think that I am accessing it but that it is very quick and faint. I need more practice.

BTW - you guys are wonderfully funny in your discussions. Thanks for leaving in the Nirvana fart joke!

OK - I'm convinced that it is NS. Today after talking with Antero I continued working on it and got a very clear cessation while focusing on the spot where I power down. This time it was followed by a very deep sense of calm that was very nice.

I am starting to believe that what I experienced a couple of weeks ago was indeed 3rd path. The evidence for it is that I now have access to PL jhanas and NS. The evidence against it is that I feel only a slight difference from baseline. However, something does seem to be changing gradually rather than all of a sudden. I feel less reactive to things, as if there is a little more distance between me and the issues that come up.

Hi Ron,

In my experience, I was accessing NS and PL jhanas a little before I had a "special" fruition which really changed my perceptual baseline to one of being quite "aloof" to all the mental/physical processes within. It felt like it shifted it to what seemed very similar to the Witness perspective. The fruition which seemed to do the damage had a stronger more violent entrance than usual and the exit left me blissed out for awhile longer. I went to work the next day and the mind just felt above it all and could see all phenomena arise and pass away without much pull to react. I believe that was the major perceptual shift that people have talked about when getting 3rd path. I don't know why it happened weeks after NS became aparent. Actually I am unsure if it was weeks. In my first notes thread I definitley started talking about NS before the "violent" fruition.

I'd stay tuned.

Nick

Hmmm... now I'm even more curious to see what happens! I'll keep practicing and reporting.

Another eventful day. Two successful NS attempts with more intense afterglows. I was very spaced out after the second one and almost missed a flight because of it.

I'm also having fruitions if I try to have them - a new thing for me. Up until now I just couldn't call up a fruition, it was like it was a skill everyone had but I couldn't quite get right. Today I thought, "well, since I'm able to call up Nirodha, why not a fruition?" and gave it a try and it worked. What really did the trick I think was using Nik's technique for resolution: just set your mind on knowing it will happen and then just keep practicing without trying to make it happen. That kind of "effortless effort" seems to have a lot of potential. I'll use it as I continue to move toward third path, resolve it, or manifest it, or whatever is going on...

Second path is so confusing!

"
Second path is so confusing!"

If you are able to enter NS, you are not at second path my friend.

"If you are able to enter NS, you are not at second path my friend. "

I think he meant to say "Second path WAS confusing!"

Hehe!

Go Speed Racer, go!

ha! I'm gonna keep cooking and see what happens. If this is third then now I'm even more motivated to keep going and get it done!

I remember when you got stream entry just this summer. That's awesome stuff Ron.

Glad to have been here to see your progress.

Thanks mumuwu - I'm a little blown away by how quickly this is working. You know, I can't say enough good things about this noting technique. I worked on getting enlightened for years before I started this last spring and now I'm at third path by Christmas. It's a truly beautiful thing!

Thanks to everyone who followed my progress and gave me advice! Please keep it coming!

Just experimented with NS some more and had four in a row. They have a pretty heavy effect on the overall mood. I'm pretty relaxed now and can't be bothered by anything.

Over the break I'm going to try and differentiate between the PL jhanas some more and gain a better understanding of that territory.

I've worked on tracking the details of the PL jhanas a bit more and here is what I've experienced.

First PL: starts with a feeling of tightening or pressure around the crown and then reaches a point where there is a sensation of dramatic opening up above me. Accompanying the opening up feeling is a warm joy unlike anything in any of the other jhanas.

Second PL: There is a sudden (sometimes gradual but more often sudden) bolt of energy that runs from my crown to my abdomen. It is not at all course or unpleasant. Rather, it feels like that stream of energy becomes more alive all of sudden. The feeling of warm joy is still present but it shifts to the background. A subtle excitement and happiness arises as the predominant emotional flavor.

PL 3: A sudden expansion in all directions and a softening of the energy running along the midline of the body. The emotional flavor of this jhana is much more subtle and I'm still not sure what to call it. It reminds me very much of the 7th jhana.

PL4 and 5 are still very subtle for me and difficult to describe.

Looking for advice on 3rd gear:

I haven't experienced 3rd gear yet (I think), but I feel I'm getting close and would like a few pointers. I've been using 2nd gear for some time now as my main practice (rather than noting) and the feeling of the witness is starting to get "fuzzy" and I'm thinking that if I know what to look for I can shift up to 3rd gear soon.

I guess what I'm looking for is a technique to make the shift, and any idea that will let me know if I've made it. So far, I've been looking for whatever is observing the witness, but what I've ended up with doesn't feel like much of anything. I've read that it is "Stainless" and "pure" and "luminous" but that is nothing like what I've experienced. could someone give me an idea of what it feels like? Is it a good feeling or neutral? How does the shift from 2nd to 3rd feel subjectively?

Ron, try letting the environment see you instead of you seeing the environment. We're used to having a "locus of awareness" in our own heads, since that is where most of our sense organs are clustered. But actually, it's flexible; are you looking out at the world, or is the world looking in at you? Shifting (or leaving behind) the locus of awareness in this way is one way to get a 3rd gear perspective.

Hi Ron.

This is totally my opinion, and I am no 3rd gear wizard to be sure. But I would say that the most significant glimpses of what I understand as 3rd gear came just about exactly where you are and a bit later in the path model. That is, engaging 3rd path and closing in on 4th. I think of the later PL jhanas as thinly veiled states; there is sort of a bare thread between them and various flavors of 3rd gear. Once you are in that territory, cognitive filters start to thin in a new way.

What is 3rd? It's probably a very big territory. But at this point I would include non-dual states--where boundaries between self and other palpably dissolve into a feeling of relaxed openness. Also, states of deep entrance into the present moment, when notions of self and process are seen to drop away in the now.

So obviously go with Kenneth's advice and see what happens. But I would say just keep doing what you are doing, engaging the PLs, paying attention, and 3rd gear will "break through" of its own accord, particularly as 4th path gets closer.

Yours,
Mark

So far what I'm experiencing when I try accessing 3rd gear is a sense that begins with the witness being expanded outward, though I don't really sense this happening until it has reached some limit and it is as if it can't go any further without dissolving. At this point there is a sensation of light, dim at this point, that reminds me of the kind of otherwordly light that I experience during A&P. There is a clear understanding at this point that what is stopping the expansion from going further or the light from getting brighter is "me."

I am beginning to understand what everyone is talking about when they say "surrender." Accompanying this realization is a twinge of fear.

Another development that I'm not sure how to feel about:

I'm losing interest in the jhanic arc! This seems crazy to me, since moving along the arc and progressing up to higher, more refined levels has been such a strong motivation throughout my practice. Now it is almost as if I'm getting bored with the up and down movement.

It feels as if there is a new cutting edge to my practice that is emerging, but I can't quite make out what it is. This edge isn't on the jhanic arc, it is something different.

I'm a bit unsure and unsteady at this point. The process seems to be unfolding on its own nicely, however, it is going in a direction that I was not ready for...