Keith's first meditation notes, ever!

Getting used to switch from Goenka Sweeping to Mahasi noting. This was a 60 min sit eyes closed.

Rough unfocused eyes moving chasing the rising and falling abdomen for a min or 2.

eyes calm down wider view focus straight ahead and higher, able to watch breath get shallower, finer.

muddy body sensations not super muddy random sensations nothing painful or dramatic

slight pressure tensions in different parts i can note them come and go

definition of body arms and legs and such is somewhat gone mass of cloudy bubbles.

focus slides off and on to abdomen rising and falling i can stay with it for what seems like no more than 60 secs.

The return is smooth and I can note that I was thinking imagining planning etc.

this compared to the sweeping where I would snap back to awareness which leads me to believe I'm less embedded

wile noting the rising and falling.

Tried to do a sweep from head to toe and felt like i was sinking into the breath of the abdomen, kinda of a new experience.

While sitting I felt my perspective shift eyes closed, the seat of the witness moving from left to right waves of energy

sweeping through the body etc. A sense of detachment from my physical body a dissociative state.

I had energy surges once from the first Chakra briefly other surges with perspective shifts.

As the hour came to a close I became aware of tension in the pressure point where my ankle was touching the mat.

I kept thinking that staying with the abdomen gives the sit a feel I'm not used to since I learned to kinda keep anapana and

vipassana separate. Feels a bit rougher to me less drifting off in thought or blissing out more staying present.

What is a "special K trip?'

Welcome Keith,

I mysefl was a Goenka yogi for a long time. Made the switch to noting and made so much fast progress. Can't wait to see you take off!!!

Mudita,

Nick

Hi Nick,
you'll understand how this feels like kissing and telling since we kinda learned not to discusses experiences.

I have my first skype session with Kenneth on Sunday so I'm assuming he'll suggest I start making notes of my noting.
I'm totally jumping the gun and going monkey see monkey do.

So if any one has tips to prep information for my session with Kenneth feel free to share.
Notes:

left the AC and fans on and the ear plugs out just to deal with things as they are.
60 min sit eyes closed. took a bit longer to focus on the abdomen.

Face felt like a pin cushion not painful but surface tingling and a bit of bubbling tingles extending from the back of the head a bit. Felt some mental states of impatience as the session came to a close. Was tired and felt it harder to not slip into mind wandering land.



BTW I have zero forum skills so please excuse my fumbling around.


Cheers

Hi Keith,

Yeh, you'll get over that whole "feeling bad" for talking about your experiences. Now you'll be able to get very fast and helpful feedback without you having to guess what to do. Thus you will progress much quicker in my opinion. Sit before you have your session with KEnneth so you have something fresh in your mind to share with him. Pay attention to what type of mind states, sensations, thoughts etc are occurring in that session and the day leading up to it. This will give you enough stuff to talk about.

Thanks Nick!

Hi All,
So I did my first sit today noting just sensations. I did not name them pleasant unpleasant or neutral.
I wanted to just get the hang of this level by level first.
Kenneth mentioned accountability during our first Skype session on Sunday and I think I know what he meant.
Maybe I just want to be a good student but while sitting there eyes open noting sitting on my cushion I could tell that there was less space for my mind to wander. When it did it was very clear.
It gave me a real taste of what gapless mindfulness might be, the difference between gapless mindfulness and intermittent mindfulness. This seems to jive with what I've been reading.

60 min sit eyes open. Not sure why I keep my eyes open now does anyone else do this?

Noting sensations and trying to call them pleasant unpleasant or neutral.
I've never really meditated with my eyes open. I find that the open eyes keep me a bit honest.
Keeps me from swimming in the pleasant sensations or drifting off into space feeling quite good about myself
for being such a yogi : )

I guess cause I'm practicing part 1 and 2 of the first gear I'm trying to not have any thoughts? Is that right?
Is that even possible? Or maybe I'm just not looking at them. I did see a few thoughts don't get me wrong put I tried to quickly focus back to sensations without paying to much attention to the mind states.

side note
So I mentioned to Nik that I was worried I'd loose equanimity if I switch my practice to the noting style and I think I meant concentration. Naming pleasant unpleasant or neutral is a bit different from the Goenka style in a sense that I was taught I think to not judge any sensations so as not to generate aversion or clinging to them. I thought that by being equanimous to pain and pleasurable sensations was doing something for me in the background I thought that was burning something up. I have an underlying feeling that they are kinda doing the same thing just that the " first gear " style is a more complete. I never really took a look at mind states or feeling tones they were there I just did not objectified them ? Is that right?

Keith asked: I guess cause I'm practicing part 1 and 2 of the first gear I'm trying to not have any thoughts? Is that right? Is that even possible?

So you want to maybe stick with a specific phenomena like sensations and their tones until you get the knack at noting that type of phenomena. You can also do the same by noting primarily thoughts, or mind states.

When you get good at this, then you can note WHATEVER takes centre stage, whether it is a mind state, thought/s, sensations or the tones of sensations (I think it's good to note the sensation as well as its tone at the same time eg. pain-unpleasant, vibrations-pleasant, burning-neutral). This is the ideal set up. Practice singling out certain phenomena like sensations and their tones, then mind states, and then thoughts. Then let go of looking for a particular phenomena and notice and note whatever phenomena take the centre stage in the experience of "Keith".

You aren't "judging" sensations whern you note their tones. You are just objectifying their tones so that the mind dis-embeds from that layer of phenomena. If you find you are experiencing a "judging" mind state or thought, then you can note that as "judging" or "judging-thought".

Let me give you an example from my own experience.

I sit to meditate. I just let the mind be pulled to whatever phenomena arises. I know this goes against Goenka's advice, but you aren't practicing the sweeping method. I start to note whatever takes centre stage: Vibrations-pleasant, vibrations-pleasant, image, remembering-thought, vibrations-pleasant, vibrations-pleasant, wandering, wandering, spacing out, spacing out, vibrations-neutral, image, planning-thought, planning -thought, vibrations-pleasant, vibrations-pleasant.

So when you practice the sweeping method you are just observing the sensations right?....regardless of whether they are pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. The same with the noting. I think many Goenka yogis think they are being 100% equanimous with sensations but there is, at times, a push and pull struggle in the mind when a yogi is not objectifying the phenomena completely. They might be half embedded in it and half dis-embedded (equanimous). The noting method allows you to objectify all the layers of the sensations so you dont give the mind a chance to get embedded in a certain layer, which is a big possibility for Goenka yogis. Which is why i think there aren't a lot of them getting stream entry because they arent disembedding from the whole shebang.

Notice in my example that I was observing sensations, dis-embedding from both the sensations AND their tones but also including thoughts and mind states that interrupt the flow of concentration. For a Goenka yogi, they might get lost in thought, and then remember several minutes down the road to go back to sensations. They never disembedded from the thoughts, just sensations...maybe. For the noting yogi, that "interruption" is no longer an "interruption" to the concentration, but just more stuff to note. With noting, you are including ALL of the phenomena. It doesn't matter what arises as it just becomes more, as Kenneth puts it, grist for the mill...and as I put it, more fuel for your rocket ship to awakening. Noting is so powerful because nothing cannot get by it. If you are just observing sensations, and trying to ignore mental phenomena like thoughts, then you are missing a very important and vital oportunity to disembed from that type of phenomena. You gotta dis-embed from it all!

My 2 cents.

Well said Nik,

I do think that's what I was doing while sweeping. Getting embedded in the cracks. Time for the whole shebang to get burned up in the Jets !!!

I shall start again...

60 min sit eyes open.
Not sure why I'm keeping my eyes open. Anybody else have a preference or is it not important?
Doing the first two parts of the first Gear practice.
Sensations and the three tones. Chasing down all the different types of sensations alot of neutral sensations. Just slight tension in the back lots of itching tingling and what not about half way through the hour a few energy surges.
Today I also had a funny lip twitch for like 2 min I thought I was doing it on purpose until I tried to stop.
Had to laugh a bit thinking about how i'd explain that at work. Seems like I'm getting to about the same place in my meditation with eyes open and noting that I was getting with eyes closed and sweeping. The difference being that I think
the mind is wandering less. I also feel like I'm getting pulled lulled into closing my eyes and enjoying some of the sensations. I remember Goenka always says be alert very alert seems like I'm more alert with my eyes open. Not sure seems kinda counter intuitive to me. My plan is to spend 2 hours a day for a week with sensations and tones and then try to add mind states. Also wondering if anyone is reading this :

www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html

should I be reading this to gain wisdom into the practice?

Cheers

No harm can come from reading the suttas unless they stop you from just simply practicing. If you keep noting without all the love making to ideas and thoughts, then you will progress. Read, get inspired, but just follow instructions. Keith, why did you want to switch techniques or rather include the noting technique? Most yogis don't get stream entry because they dont follow instructions to the Tee, or maybe think they are doing it but maybe doing too much intellectual masturbation and not enough sitting time. Not criticizing you but be wary of spending too much time "thinking" about noting and not actually noting. Cos you WILL progress faster and you WILL get stream entry and beyond if you just practice. Keep following Kenneth's instructions. People are popping because of that!




P.S. I meditate with eyes closed. It would be good to get good at noting with both eyes closed and open. But stick to what works for you! Keep noting!

Keith I've been reading every post.

The lip twitch thing sounds really neat. I've experienced that a good bit as well.

Eyes open/closed is a debate that seems to go back hundreds of years. I think they each have their advantages and I do both depending on my mood. Generally I've found that it's easier to pick up subtle stuff with eyes closed, but with eyes open I don't tend to get as tired and also it helps me a lot in seeing how all this stuff feels when you are up going around.

For me when working on something new I would do eyes closed, when playing around with it, I would try it with eyes open to see how it feels that way.

"Keith, why did you want to switch techniques or rather include the noting technique? Most yogis don't get stream entry because they dont follow instructions to the Tee, or maybe think they are doing it but maybe doing too much intellectual masturbation and not enough sitting time. Not criticizing you but be wary of spending too much time "thinking" about noting and not actually noting. "

HI Nik, thanks for the tips. I actually do try and keep my mind on sensations through out the day.

I'm a bit confused by your post I thought i was following the instructions on the first page.
Noting right ?

I thought I heard Kenneth tell me was to work my way up through the strata of the mind as I got more comfortable with the technique :

1. sensations
2. tones
3. mind states
4. feeling

right? I was just going to get used to each level for a few days before I put them all together. I'm fine with noting it seems very familiar to me just adding some extra layers which I think make the objectifying more effective thus quicker progress no?

cheers

Yeh you are right. Sorry to confuse. I reckon if you keep at it you will progress quickly. Keep it up! I love reading your notes. Keep following Kenneth's instructions

mudita

Nick

Hi MumuWu,

Thanks for your post. It's funny i tried the opposite because it was new I kept my eyes open.
Last night I tried eyes closed for 60 min. It was a little bit harder to keep things separated in there. But it's a practice right.
I'm going to try eyes closed again and see what happens.

I was also kinda keeping them open so I could read the list of words describing each strata LOL.
Gonna switch back to eyes closed for a few sits.

I'll keep noting and posting

Just sat 60 min eyes closed looking at

sensations - all kinda from gross to tingling
tones - pleasant - unpleasant - neutral,
mind states - which I kinda just used a few like waiting thinking noting curious investigating.
thought s - planning wanting longing missing thinking remembering futurizing

So this was interesting, trying to put them all together. In the beginning i was wondering if the sensations have to correlate with mind states and thoughts or not. I guess they do with feeling tones since a gross sensation is going to generate an unpleasant tone. But since so many sensations were flying around it was hard to tell. I can discern sensations i.e. separate them out pretty good. I have this question with Goenka as well which is should I be trying to connect or see my thoughts generating sensations and vice versa.

Mind and feeling
Body and sensations
back and forth in this quadrant? Should the way this works be clear become clear to me?

I'm i thinking too much?
This is a reflection that is happening after the fact while sitting I was just briefly thinking about this and noting that as well.

I had a couple of pretty intense energy surges throughout the body blissful states for a few seconds,
Kinda of orgasmic in a way. I'll say discreetly that the first Chakra was slightly activated ( wink )
I felt myself grasping for the sensation clinging anticipating it when it came around again.
Breath becoming short felt dissolution coming on a bit.
Have to say here that I'm very grateful for communities like this that help me understand that these energy surges are just
things that arise and disappear they are not signs of anything nothing to cling to just fodder for the engine.
With everyones help here I know I can see these things for what they are and not get stuck.

Thanks to everyone.

Keith

"Just sat 60 min eyes closed looking at

sensations - all kinda from gross to tingling
tones - pleasant - unpleasant - neutral,
mind states - which I kinda just used a few like waiting thinking noting curious investigating.
thought s - planning wanting longing missing thinking remembering futurizing


"

Noticed I got the mind states and thoughts a bit confused here.

Is it like this?
mind states are abstract - aversion - nervous - envy - >>> feelings I guess right?
thoughts have images attached to them - vacation thought - new bike thought - new amp thought --- >>>> mind painting past and future

thanks for any advice on this

Hi Keith,

There is a list of mind states and example thoughts on the home page. I've cut and pasted it below for your convenience. Essentially, thoughts are stories, fantasies, speculations, memories, mental words, or images. Mind states are ephemeral emotions.

"3)Objectify mind states. Investigation, curiosity, happiness, anxiety, amusement, sadness, joy, anger, frustration, annoyance, irritation, aversion, desire, disgust, fear, worry, calm, embarrassment, shame, self-pity, compassion, love, contentment, aversion, dullness, sleepiness, bliss, exhilaration, triumph, self-loathing. Name them and be free of them. They will not cease to arise. They will never cease to arise; but they are not "you;" we know that because if there is a "you" it is the one who is looking, not what is being looked at."

"4)Objectify thoughts. Categorize them: planning thought, anticipating thought, worrying thought, imaging thought, remembering thought, rehearsing thought, scenario spinning thought, fantasy thought, self-recrimination thought. Come up with your own vocabulary and see your thoughts as though they belong to someone else. The content is not relevant except to the extent that it helps you to label and therefore objectify them."

You're doing great, Keith. Keep up the good work!

Kenneth

Thanks Kenneth, two sits yesterday one 60 min the other 45 min. Practicing sensations tones and mind states.
At one point Kenneth mentioned triplets i.e. sensation the tone that goes with it and the mind state. I as wondering does it go the other way meaning do thoughts have tones and sensations that go along with them? Or should I just be objectifying thoughts and that's it?
It does feel pretty jumbled in my head when i try to note thoughts. While looking at sensations tones states and thoughts it feels like things are getting kinda hectic i.e. I'm trying to do a whole lot at once but I feel that's kinda the point right to overload the mind.
Getting ready to sit again now 60 min eyes closed. I'll report back in a sec ....Okay so I tried to note out loud for as long as I could
I think it was about 30 min maybe a bit more. I was giving thoughts names like " Tony " thought the names of the people I was thinking about I feel like that may be a bit to much detail since Kenneth's descriptors for thoughts are general. Kept noting sensations, tried getting a bit fancier with the sensation descriptions like " long thin hot pulsing unpleasant aversion ". And then mind states called out " waiting curious graving waiting, excited, etc. I tried to keep Daniel's cat and mouse image going as well. Goenka also talks about being very attentive, I imagine hunting waiting for the thoughts to pop up. It is a game in a sense to try and cut down the time it takes to realize " oh I'm having a thought" I did feel a slight shift in perspective where my head to a wider type thing and I thought I was going to go into ( not sure bangha ? ) but stayed anchor to the unpleasant sensation in my ankle. Have to say there is a different quality to the research when i call out vocally the noting. I think It is helping until i get the vocab down.

Cheers

Keep it up Keith!

In the Goenka tradition, the 5th stage of insight, the stage of Dissolution/Bhanga, has been given some sort of status for all the talking about getting to it amongst all the yogis in the Goenka centres. It really isn't anything special. It's just another stage of insight, and the 5th one only. So don't sweat it too much. So many yogis, including myself, thought that Bhanga was the bees knees. It was what was the objective , at least on a 10 day. But it really isn't really the objective here. Well, you will pass through it if you keep noting.

Goenka courses get yogis to that stage fairly easily. Well, a lot of yogis do experience it on 10 day courses. But right on the heels of the 5th nana are the following 5 nanas, the dukkha nanas, what Goenka calls the "sleeping difilements". This is the dark night that we all talk about here. He stops short of explaning or talking about the stages that follow the dukkha nanas. Following the dukkha nanas comes the 11th nana. This is Equanimity of Formations/Sankharas territory, where you feel the mind disperse and the focus becomes wider more inclusive and mental phenomena is easily seen. Equanimity levels are very high. You feel ok with the world. Here if you keep noting as you have been doing, you will eventually "pop"!

Keep at it Keith! Bhanga is just a stage, nothing more. If any stage has a higher status here, it's stream entry which occurs during the 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th stages of insight (which occur all quickly together over several mind moments).

Remember it is looking at, NOT looking for!



Bhanga shmanga!!!!!

You seem to be doing awesomely!!!!

I notice that thoughts, mind states etc seem to have their corresponding sensations. From years of practicing the sweeping method, I found that I was very aware of the subtlest of vibrations and could see what sensations seemed to be "linked" to mind states, emotions, thoughts etc

If your mind is getting pulled to the sensations note them. If it is getting pulled to the thoughts, note them. Don't worry about seeing what sensations are related to other phenomena. You job is just to note WHATEVER is being noticed in the very moment. If it is a jumbled mess of thoughts and sensations and you don't know what to note, then you could note "confusion", or even "jumbled mess" until it becomes clearer. At least you are objectifying the very moment rather than being embedded in it.

Sometimes it is good to ask yourself, "What is happening in this very moment?" and "Am I searching for something specific?"...if so then you can just note "searching" and whatever else takes centre stage. It's looking at, NOT looking for!



Edited to add: I would refrain from naming your thoughts "Tony" or giving them more detailed names like that. The object is to DIS-IDENTIFY with phenomena. So if you are calling them by the names of the faces you are imagining and thinking about, you run the risk of continuing to identify and remain embedded in them. The less detailed and more generic terms like "remembering-thoughts" or Imagining-thought" clearly don't allow you to identify with the content of the thought. But just objectify it as nothing more than a type of thought. Make sense?