Pejn trying to advance.

Hi Kenneth and all!

I am Pejn, I just agreed with Kenneth to recieve instructions from him.
Interesting!

My background:
I am close to 50 yrs old and have been meditating actively for two years now.

I learned TM in my 20:es and did that regurlarly for a year or two, but was not satisfyed by the development and quit. I felt I became dull and uninterested i everyday life and after the first rewarding period i did not seem to move forward.

I started again in fall 2008 after a kind of chrisis during wich I also realized happiness is not found in "wordly success" (even though it is neat of course).

I follow Bhante Gunaratanas "Mindfulness in plain English" now.

In the beginning I had problems sitting for more than 20 mins. (Monkey mind, angry chains of thought and painful posture.)
But also good everyday rewards with calmness and above all good sleep. No negative effects.
(Instead of twitching and thinking for 2 hrs+ in the bed I now sleep within 10-20 mins.)
So all my meditation time has been payed back with interest

I have had some milestones in this period.

1 Is the initial progress from 10 minutes to 20 minutes.
2 Is when I found a new posture, hero pose/seiza, on a pillow.
2 Is when I managed to press through the 20-minute wall and had "blissful concentration" moments in a few different ways.
3 Is when i managed to press though the 30-minute wall an more regurly higher concentration levels.
4 Then 40 minutes, no big deal.
5 Then *almost* 60 minutes every evening. (this is tough to break)
6 After new year also added 30 mins in the morning.
7 Some moments of really calm and effortless concentration with spacios full attention this latest period.
8 This week trying noticin and noticing loud and finding me able to do it.
9 Deciding to get a teacher.

I have so far focused on samatha since i understand it to be the beginners weak point. But now I feel I have enough concentration to move over more to vipassana.
Before i tried a few times noting out loud, but hated it. It broke my concentration immediately.
But trying it again it seemed to work, at least for a short time.

I have read a lot about Theravada Buddhism and meditation.
Now I am bored of all the theories and want to do it instead.
I have learned so many different ways to concentrate and to note that I need some guiding
and Kenneth have been recommended so much so I think I have nothing to lose following instructions from him. (What *can* I lose BTW )

This is a typical evening sit now:

Sits down on pillow.
Look at breath.
Follows breath easily.
Relaxing.
Small shivers from neck down the body.
Body pulses.
---

After while minutes concentration breaks. Thoughts coming.

--
Adjust position to straighter.
Focuses more tightly on the breath.
Concentration shifts together with eye focus shifts. (these comes i different variation during the whole sit.)
Small shivers.
Attentin moves between breath and visual field in periods.
Lose concentration.
Going in loops like this for a while
--

After 20 mins I get calm concentration on breath without much effort.
I start to go deeper a few times if I focus more tightly but it newer sticks.
Blissful period mixed with agony periods.
After 40 mins I get tensions in face. I can relax or note the tension away most of the times.
After 50 mins the bodily aches has built up.
Aches makes me restless and doubtful and I quit after 45-59 (!) mins.
Goes to sleep.

During the entire sit i note wordlessly the hindrances and interrupting sensory input. (Gunaratana's instruction). Sometimes I use silent words also.

It sometimes seems like deep concentration *requires* that I first lose it into a long trails of thoght before coming back. After the first instance)
Or that I work through a period ov agony before comin back
Sometimes I get a lighter and brighter concentration with just easy attention on the breath efter a period of strong concentration on breath.
The bright visual field then becomes dominant. Highly pleasant.

The morning sits are "lighter" and more pleasant. After 30 mins I want to sit a bit more but I have to go to work.
I am a really morning tired (and lazy) person so this new habit is an achivement!

This evenings sit:
Mostly as usual.
But with more pain and also an Itch I could not stand.
Tried to note loud but was too relaxed for that today.
Many cycles between pain and blissful calm.
Quit after 45 mins and finished with 10 mins lying on the back. Resulted in monkey mind.
Going to sleep nog.
(Longing for yummy breakfast!

Also: after work I was wery tired, but instead of a nap I layed down on bed and meditated maybe 30 mins without any commitment.
Worked well, refreshing and without the heavý dullness a nap can cause.

Goodnight /Pejn

Welcome Pejn. I'm sure you'll find a lot of positive feed back and help here.

Hello, and good fortune.
I'm working on samatha at the moment, so I can relate to most of what you say.
Interesting how you sit. I assume by diamond position you mean like this:
t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNh31Z...ytUwD6LYTiQTcdTU&t=1
I agree that is rather comfortable position, but terrible support, which is why I assume I don't see it recommended as meditation position ever. Might want to try Burmese or simply edge of chair.
Also interesting with cycles of bliss/pain. Seems you cycles faster and get more of both than me.
If you switch over to vipassana good luck!

Welcome Petter

Your experiences so far sound very interesting, all the best for your practice and I look forward to reading your reports

"Kenneth have been recommended so much so I think I have nothing to lose following instructions from him. (What *can* I lose BTW )
-Pejn"

Hej Petter och välkommen!

It is nice have close neighbours on board (I live in Finland ). Your practise sounds solid to me and with Kenneth you will make progress. From your description I see that you are already riding the Jhanic Arc. When you get familiar with the maps of insight, you will be able to recognize the patterns in your practise sessions (concentration, mind wandering, itching, pulsing, joy) that follow each other in a particular order. These sensations and mind states are accompanied by changes in the quality of attention, how sharp or spacious the focus is. With some practise you will know the nana or jhana you are in just by the feel of your attention.

I have to warn you though. There are lot things you can lose here, like your ignorance, ill will, suffering and the like

Happy practise!

Antero.

Hi, Pejn and welcome!

"Interesting how you sit. I assume by diamond position you mean like this:
t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNh31Z...ytUwD6LYTiQTcdTU&t=1 "

Hi Ciocoiu,
I gave it wrong name, shold be Hero pose/Seiza. =Kneeling
Poses has been a problem for me.
I have tried to get into half-lotos for a long time.
I can sit comfotably in half lotos for say 10 mins. But after 20 I can not stand it anymore.
But the position is fantastic to meditate in.

[edit my first post]
/Pejn

Hi Antero from Finland!

I have read a lot abot the maps, but it is hard to diagnose myself, everything changes all the time.
Also a certain state or development could fit in many different places in the maps.
Sometimes the differences are subtle, I would be too easy to draw too many conclutions from trivial events and fool myself.
So I have mostly ignored the maps in favour of just doing it.

I have already lost a lot of ill will (anger) and some suffering, but again I dont want to label it. I can lose more

/Pejn

Hard to sleep after last evenings meditation. Took me long. Flickering and tensed eyes.
Woke up after 7 hrs with the same feeling in the eyes. Not like me, can usually sleep for hours more in weekends.

Morning meditation good as usual, with some tensed eyes.
Many different levels and kind of concentrations and attentions.

I really like the "learning to ride a bike" metaphor for gaining concentration. "Keep balancing the bike (breath) and don't fall off it".

Some reflections I made last evening:

When I do samatha my attention goes between breath and the phenomena in the visual field and the eyes. Later to the position and the bodily aches/pressure etc..
Shivers and pulses.
I rarely notice my tinnitus.

When I do vipassana the attention is strong on my tinnitus and its different tones, the visual field, and keeps falling back on the breath.
No shivers or pulses when noting strongly.
Less suffering but also less bliss actually .
Needs to be explored more I guess.

Why did I quit after 30 mins this morning, it is holiday?
Did not feel finished so I just sat down for 30 more now after breakfast.
Tried some noting in the end in a different way. This time i noted: "impermanent, inpermanent" and followed the (now smooth) coming and going of stuff.
This also resulted in some automatic head movements, It rotated smooth and slowly left and the right in the middle of the maybe 10 mins noting session.

"So I have mostly ignored the maps in favour of just doing it.
-Pejn"

You are right, Pejn. Knowing where you are on the map is not necessary and the instructions would still stay the same.

Sooner or later you will hit unpleasant strata of mind. For me it was very helpful to realize that even though I could no longer access the nice concentrated mind states anymore, that actually was a sign of progress. I could welcome the feelings of doubt, disappointment and irritation because I knew that this is just a phase that everybody has to go through. That is the time when it is convenient to have a map.

Antero.

Great reports, Pejn! Please keep posting. Also, great advice from Antero on dealing with unpleasant mind states. Thanks!

After the second morning meditation felt good, laughing and smiling.

Took a walk, then when I came home all went crappy.
Tired, tensed, joints hurt a little , unpleasant buzzing in body, headache and in the evening bad stomach.

Messy evening meditation.
I started to note loud directly this time as an experiment.
Manged to note loud for a minute or two. Then I could not keep up anymore and just "fell down" on the breath. No "power" left to go back to noting.
Low concentration and attention not sticking anywhere and lots of thoughts tonight.

I was interrupted by my stomach after 20 mins.
Came back to sit some more. Started to note silently.
Now the head movement came back, faster and harder than before today, head turning 90 deg right.
After a while when I had turned it back again the head started to sway. Don't know really if it was automatic or if "I" did the swaying in some way.
These head movements are totally new for me.
Continued with breathing. Still low conc.

After totally 40 mins fed up, reclined and continued for 10 mins, even messier now, then I decided it was no use anymore and quit.

Tomorrow is a new day.

BTW: Hi and thanks to you other replying. Friendly people here!

This morning, still felt a bit tired and worn.
Inspired by my first post I tried some TM for the first time in maybe a year.
Good move: sitting in a comfy chair, very simple and effortless tecnique. Deeply relaxing. Clear head.
Sitting for 20 mins as this is TM 'standard time'.

The rest of this day was better than yesterday. Still some head, neck and eye ache but less buzzing in body and less irritated mind.

Evening sit interrupted by family, so it became 2x30 mins.
Weary of the thought of sitting through aches so I used the same chair again.
Sitting in the comfy chair, I had no pains (except for in the neck and headache in the final 10 mins).
A lot of thought chains, some of them irritated/angry.
In the end deep relaxed concentration, lightly touching the breath.
I then tried emulating TM technique on the breath and stilled all thoughts for some moments.
Will try that again.

One new improvement this evening:
When the sharp itches in the nose came (I hate them!), I, instead of hating them, tried to welcome them as a meditation object, noting them loud. Just accepting that my concentration was broken. It worked.
Got some good concentration movements as a result. And the itches became not hateful at all (almost ) Then when later the sharp headache attacked I could deal with them the same way.
This approach was inspired by one of the logs here. Even If I know Gunaratana teaches this for all hindrances.

Could it be a good idea to skip all attempts to have a 'correct' posture and use the comfy chair?
I still get a pretty straight back and high head if i prop a pillow behind my lower back. But the body can relax and no pains.

Morning meditation: I felt OK in after breakfast.

Sat on the floor in hero pose. No pains alls session. Nice.
Pretty good meditation.

After 15-20 mins had achieved good concentration.
Then I eased on the attention pressure (á la TM again) on the breath. The attention then moved on to the visual field instead. Shift in concentration level. High clarity so I started some silent noting.
Only sensations strong enough to catch my attention was the visual field and the tinnitus. Unusual.
The rest of body was far away.
Now the breath almost became a burden, like a disturbance. Kept attention on the quite bright and still visual field
Felt coolness in the body now, I believe for the first time, normally warmness.
Felt I could sit 'forever'
Stayed there maybe 5 minutes, then I started to think stuff.
Fell down to concentration on the breath again. Still high concentration though.
Bell rang while still deep.

Went to work. Light happiness feeling on the way.

"Could it be a good idea to skip all attempts to have a 'correct' posture and use the comfy chair?
I still get a pretty straight back and high head if i prop a pillow behind my lower back. But the body can relax and no pains.
"

Different traditions seem to emphasize the posture to different degrees.
Since I have a bad back, Kenneth once told me that sitting on a zafu is not a prerequisite to waking up.
Nowadays I most often sit on a chair with a fairly straight back. Seems to work

"Different traditions seem to emphasize the posture to different degrees.
Since I have a bad back, Kenneth once told me that sitting on a zafu is not a prerequisite to waking up.
Nowadays I most often sit on a chair with a fairly straight back. Seems to work
"

I agree. Seems like you should start the sit in a posture that is as relaxed and as comfortable as possible, with your spine straight and head and shoulders upright. (I've often heard people caution against leaning against walls or the backs of chairs, etc.)
The thing is, pain is inevitable. No matter how comfortable you are when you start, pain will enter the picture at a certain point. But it does seem to be important to at least start the sit in a comfortable and relaxed posture...

Happy feelings today after this mornings fine meditation.

Evening sitting:
Started too late.
Sleepy
Shifting between sleepyness and attention.
Heat waves and restlessness when attentive. Body pulses.
Back and sholder tired, "massive" but low grade pain there.
Noting loud a few times at sharp sensations, silently at milder sensations.
Too tired and uncomfortable upper back. Itching in the throat when I concentrated harder on breath made me start to cough.
So I quit after 40 mins.
No irritation or anger at all tonight.

Goodnight.
/Pejn

Overslept this morning. Only had time for 20 mins.

Morning meditation:
Felt really bored and fed up with meditation. "I get shivers, pulsing, lightshows, swooshes and different mindstates.. so what? Why bother?"

So instead I decided to do what seems to be recommended around here.
Partly because I was bored and partly to try out what I suspect I will be instructed to do anyway.

So I just started directly to note out loud (whispering) my sensations without any concentrationpreparation.
Actually it was easier to do it this way compared to when i have made samatha first. No resistance.
Now it made some sense noting loud since it did not allow thougts to take over.
After a while I got concentrated anyway, bot on many different objects instead of only one.
Created less bodily tensions this way.

After 15 mins for a moment i got a curious feeling that my mind did not "do" anything, everything I experenced was "external". Is my brain involved? Do I need it?, I asked myself.
No big deal but a bit funny.

Dropped noting loud when concentration increased, except for for sharp sensations.
Could have continued but bell rang.

Bumpy ride this evening.

Once again decided to start with noting loud.
Did that as much as I could for 30 mins.
Don't remember the details now but went well I think.
It felt like a very long time though and many things (ordinary to my meditations) happened.
Mixed in some samatha between the noting. It 'tasted' a little different than normally.

After 30 mins the problems began'¦
It started with 'massive' but low key pain, in the butt mostly.
* Now things got blurry, it was hard to separate distinct sensations to note. Everything seemed to melt together: vision, sound, body feelings.
* Confusion (Noting 'confusion') what to do.

Pain increased slowly. (Noted it of course, loud.)
Reflected here that noting loud decreases the suffering.
Also reflected that I usually 'talk' random words when I have high fever, it gives some relief. This was the same feeling.

* Started to feel doubt (Noting 'Doubt')
Pejn's feelings here: 'This is not meditation, it is just sitting on the butt feeling pain and wasting time' and 'I don't know how to meditate.'
Started to feel tiny pain in stomach also.

*** Fear coming! (about the stomach pain, which was not very strong and is normal to me.)
First time ever I have felt fear in meditation.
Pejn feelings here: 'This matches what I have learnt about 'Dukkha Nanas', but no, this is just fear, no fancy 'nana'.
And 'Is this what meditation gives me, I don't want to do it.'
As anxiety increased I just wanted to go away, but I restrained myself.
A few times I was on the way up from the pillow to get release from the agony, but had determination enough to sit down again.

* The last minutes the agony seemed to calm down. The physical pain (that maybe was not so strong anyway) was the same I believe.
Started to think stuff here, so the meditation was 'broken' and I quit after totally 50 mins.