Ron's "Now What?" Journal

"For now, at least, it seems to be centered in the solar plexus and it often feels as if I'm pinned in some existential way to the universe right at that place. " ~Chris

I I think I know what you mean. Though, I'm not sure I get a "pinned" feeling. For me, it's like I used to connect to the Universe with my head and through my eyes. The more I practice, the more the audio-visual side of things seems more dream-like or film-like, as you and others have described before (or even currently). When moments of profound connectedness occur (which is becoming more frequent), it seems to happen via the heart. At times it feels as though my heart cracks open, allowing the feelings of compassion and care to radiate outward, unobstructed by the confines of arbitrary conceptualization.

To get WAY out there with my descriptions... I think my practice is unfolding in a similar way as described by Aziz (Anadi) Kristof -- from Presence (Witnessing), to Being (Nonself), to Heart (connectedness/compassion). In this case, it's not as though any of them drop away, for all of these aspects remain a part of one's experience once they are realized and developed (stabilized). Kind of esoteric, don't you think?

Jackson

Yes, Jackson.

BTW, when I used the word "pinned" I meant it to mean, essentially, "connected," not literally pinned. I should have selected a better word but I was in a hurry. My bad!

"BTW, when I used the word "pinned" I meant it to mean, essentially, "connected," not literally pinned. I should have selected a better word but I was in a hurry. My bad!" ~Chris

I had a feeling that's what you meant, but I didn't want to assume

First of all, glad to hear you and the family are o.k. Ron, I was thinking about you when I heard Hawaii would be affected by all this so it's good to know you're all safe.

Secondly, I'm quite confused by what's being said here by Chris, Jackson, Ron and Nick as my own practice, and day to day experience, seems to be very similar to what you guys are describing. This sense of connectedness at the solar plexus, very different to the connectedness I used to feel at the head and eyes, has appeared recently as have sensations like, what Jackson described as "my heart cracks open, allowing the feelings of compassion and care to radiate outwards....". I don't believe I've gotten 4th path yet so is this something which you guys noticed prior to 4th?

Sorry to interrupt Ron's post.... : )

"First of all, glad to hear you and the family are o.k. Ron, I was thinking about you when I heard Hawaii would be affected by all this so it's good to know you're all safe.

Secondly, I'm quite confused by what's being said here by Chris, Jackson, Ron and Nick as my own practice, and day to day experience, seems to be very similar to what you guys are describing. This sense of connectedness at the solar plexus, very different to the connectedness I used to feel at the head and eyes, has appeared recently as have sensations like, what Jackson described as "my heart cracks open, allowing the feelings of compassion and care to radiate outwards....". I don't believe I've gotten 4th path yet so is this something which you guys noticed prior to 4th?

Sorry to interrupt Ron's post.... : )"

Hi Tommy,

I have not experienced any connectedness at the solar plexus like Chris and Jackosn have described but A lot of vibratory activity in the lower belly area, the occasional heart and throat and third eye and crown action too. But I have not had any intuition that I'm connected in any way. Most of my day feels like a movie on display with no moviegoer watching sometimes and momentary experiences of the witness sensations giving the impression they are doing the watching. . . When I am engaged in daily activities or talking with someone, perhaps there is more connectedness in the experience as I'm focused on that activity or person/s. The movie screen analogy is sort of replaced by a more focused intent. This may snap me out of any movie screen experience.

I'm not sure this answered your question. Perhaps the difference pre-4th versus post 4th is depth and no centrepoint?. I can't really remember how it was pre-4th.

Nick

"I don't believe I've gotten 4th path yet so is this something which you guys noticed prior to 4th?" ~TMN

Yes, this is something that can be experienced prior to the stage of development commonly referred to as "4th path" here at KFDh. What seems to be true for me and some others is that this development away from connecting through the intellect more toward connecting through the heart is something that continues long after any particular stage of development. I'm not sure, but I'd venture to guess that this deepening of experience is not something that ever reaches some final stage. I guess it's hard to imagine something so non-static reaching a place of stasis.

I should also say that this "connecting" I'm writing about could also be described (perhaps more accurately) as kind of non-dual intimate relating. I don't know if that makes things more clear or more confusing, but I'm just throwing it out there to find out

Jackson

Thanks lads! Both views are useful and I appreciate your input, I was just interested in how you experience these sorts of sensations.

Jackson, I agree with your choice of "non-dual intimate relating" to describe that "connecting", but I hate your guts for being able to sum up these things so goddamned accurately! Ha! Only joking, it's a perfect description and fits nicely with my own experience.

- Tommy

"
Sorry to interrupt Ron's post.... : )"

Interrupt all you want! I love these discussions.

I'm interested in Chris' experience of cycling in and out of the connectedness. Right now I'm sort of on the fence about it (is this a good thing or a bad thing?). Mostly because I don't like that there is new distance between "me" and experience. On the flip side, I will admit that when I do focus attention on anything at all I have a sense of intimacy with it that I never did before. There is this "aloofness", but at any moment it feels like I can be in tune with anything I choose.

I'd like to hear more about people's experience with this...

Reconnection came back this weekend with a vengeance, it was like another mini dark night, full of crankiness and irritability. So strange - I felt all embedded in it, but with effort could step out of it, but it was as if it has some gravity that pulled me back into it if I stopped paying attention.

It is a weird experience. This part of the path feels like I'm settling into a new way of being, but I'm not settling in all at once. There are "hiccups" of ego and suffering.

I like Jackson's new term "non-dual intimate relating."

Oh, BTW, these openings and feelings the emanate from/to the heart area and solar plexus started long ago for me, well before whatever it is that people call 4th path happened to me. I've always thought these things were related more to third gear practice than to the Theravada paths but in all honestly there's no way to know since they all seemed to gang up on me simultaneously

Continuing to use the DM practice and waiting to see where it goes. The biggest obstacle so far is simply sticking with it. The situation reminds me a lot of when I was attempting to do noting practice throughout daily life while working through 3rd path. What worked then is what seems to be working now. I found that there were certain daily events during which I always remembered to do the noting, and then it started to happen automatically at those times. That is starting to happen with DM too. In particular, I'm remembering to engage in DM during commuting, bottle feeding the baby and whenever I take a seat at my desk at work. Little things like that are what I think of as my "anchors" around which the practice forms. It is the spaces between these events that I'm trying to fill up with practice and remember to do it.

Woke up today and feel totally normal.

It was like nothing happened. I'm right where I started, and feel embedded, small and it was like all the peace and contentment post-4th path was a dream.

What the hell?

Is it true? Resist the urge to buy into the idea that you are somehow locked out. Ask yourself if the stillness and peace are really gone. I don't believe they are. It's just a game the mind likes to play. It's the forgetting game. All you have to do is remember to remember. Who knows about this?

Hhmmmm. I experience that sort of thing all the time. It's a little disappointing to hear it continues even post 4th path.

"Woke up today and feel totally normal.

It was like nothing happened. I'm right where I started, and feel embedded, small and it was like all the peace and contentment post-4th path was a dream.

What the hell?
"

Ron, I really admire your willingness to be transparent with regard to your practice ups and downs.

This is expansion and contraction - in a word, Impermanence. Take a breath and acknowledge the truth of the moment. "This too, this too."

There is peace there, too.

Jackson

Had a nice long sit for the first time in a while and afterwards reflected on who is being bothered by all this anyway - poof! ease and contentment back in full effect.

This is a funny kind of experience. Every time I think I understand what is going on and what I'm doing I just get knocked off my feet in a new way.

"Hhmmmm. I experience that sort of thing all the time. It's a little disappointing to hear it continues even post 4th path."

Don't stress about it rev - I way prefer the uncertainty and difficulty of this to the bumps in the road earlier in the path.

What is missing is the strong urge to get it worked out and fixed. Pre-4th, when I was confused or felt lost it was so frustrating because there was this strong urge to get something done. That urge is gone. Now, when things are confusing the predominant feeling isn't frustration- it's bemusement. The whole thing is much much more pleasant.

You will get there and know this for yourself.

Alright, i am pretty sure that what people have called the "honeymoon period" after 4th is passing away and a sense of "normalcy" is returning.

Today I felt completely non-enlightened again, just a regular guy doing stuff. But I find that if I pause and orient my mind to the peace, it's right there waiting.

So now what I'm wondering is this: is the "new normal" the same as the old normal? and if it is not, then how is it different? if it is the same, then did I fool myself into something that wasn't real - or alternatively, is there something I need to do to keep the realization from fading away?

Hi Ron, Doesn't this feeling that " its right there waiting" just mean that you are just switching from 'conventional reality' to

' ultimate reality ' and that ultimate reality is the ultimate, and the conventional is a necessary illusion for day to day functioning?

This seems to be how it is for me at the moment. cheers Steve

It always helps me to remember this -- there is no "enlightened me" at all. I forget that on a regular basis, of course, and then when I remember, poof! Peace can return.

Then I remember this: there are very much such things as awakened moments. Snippets, or even more extended periods of time, when mind is not occupied with its own silly noise. In those times, awakening is possible.

Does that square with your current experience, Ron?

That squares perfectly Chris! and thanks to you too Stephen.

What is happening reminds of a review phase after a path, where one second you are having raptures and the next everything is solid again. And things just go back and forth.

The trick, I think, is what I'm beginning to describe to myself as "fulfilling the path" by frequently questioning what the ego is presenting to me. I know it isn't real, but it keeps asserting just how solid and important it is. So, right now I'm doing some investigating, like a reporter trying to get the full story on what it is up to.

I started reading Adyshanti's "The End of Your World" and I am blown away by how accurately he describes the post - 4th path experience. Thanks to jgroove for mentioning it!

There are a few things about it that do stand out as being so true of my own experience that I wanted to put them down:
1. Enlightenment is not what I expected - everyone told this to me early on, and even though I thought I understood, I really didn't. I had imagined a number of different scenarios, but none of them like this one. It turns out that NOTHING changed, and it feels like everything is now different. How to explain this? It is really impossible.

2. There really has been some deep change in what i think of as "self" - the "me" that started this path and worked so hard to get enlightened is still here, only there is a profound awareness that that "me" was what I was working to be free of all along. At the time of the work along the paths this might have been "true" to me in a theoretical sense, now it is real in a wholly different way.

3. There have been some weird shifts in mood and energy - I've had some experiences that I could only call "trippy", there has been a sudden jump in energy (but that seems to come and go), and what Antero once aptly described as mini-dark-nights, where I would get really cranky for a few days out of the blue. It seems that there is an adjustment period, where the mind and body go through some difficult and interesting changes.

4. Contentment and a sense of being "finished" with something really is the hallmark experience now.

5. Despite the sense of being finished, there is a new sense of curiosity and a sense that a whole world is now opened up, and I've only just begun to explore it. I keep wondering how deep this all can go, how profound the changes can possibly be.

Funny - now that I'm settling into this new phase in my life, I appear to have less to say! Far fewer posts than before. However, with Kenneth's blessing I've decided to start teaching. The way I figure it, I still have far to go in deepening my practice and awakening even further, but that doesn't mean that for people struggling to make it to SE or beyond that I can't be helpful.

I debated a little bit with the question of whether I should teach or even if I was ready. After all, teaching is likely a superhighway toward rebuilding the ego, so there was some back and forth in my decision making. But after discussing it a little with Kenneth and thinking about how they urge monastics to teach after 2nd path, I decided that it would be a good idea.

I'm setting up a website and looking in the community for places to teach. It is a weird way to start, having moved to a new place and not knowing many people here, it is like I'm starting from scratch. I am running a group at the hospital and hopefully I can branch out from there.

In terms of practice, I continue to work on grounding emotions and trying to stay in the moment. My progress in this practice is painfully slow compared to other practices I have tried, but that is mostly due to not sticking with it. I am good about practice one day and awful the next. It's the consistency, I'm finding, that matters most.

"But after discussing it a little with Kenneth and thinking about how they urge monastics to teach after 2nd path, I decided that it would be a good idea."

Hi, Ron. I've always been curious about this issue because it seems that most folks who have a serious meditation practice lean in this direction. Can you explain in more detail the thought process behind your decision?

Thanks!