Ron's "Now What?" Journal

Yeah - like I said, there was a lot of back and forth in my mind about this. The downsides of teaching are that, first of all, I have worries about the conceit that it can generate. Teachers can get pretty full of themselves and their students can really play into that, and I wondered for a while whether this was ego's way of trying to slide back into the driver's seat (not that it hasn't done that plenty of times already since 4th). Another downside is that it is really a huge commitment. When I think about things that I've done in my life, learning meditation has been one of the most important, and if I get involved with a student, I sense that I'll be the sort of teacher that will want to see them finish and will stick to it, so for a guy with a new baby and a new career, this is a whole new commitment. Another downside is that while teaching gets a lot of respect in some circles, it also is a pretty thankless job (IMHO). I've seen folks with tremendous insight and experience provide sound advice to beginners on this site, and get totally flamed for challenging the beginner's unexamined assumptions. It seems that for teachers, or anyone with some experience who is willing to share and guide, many meditators can be simultaneously venerating and insulting - and either one of these is a really awful experience for me. There are even more downsides, but I won't get into it too much because it could really go on for a while.

What really changed my mind though was a few recent experiences at the hospital that I work at. I have been leading a meditation group there on Tuesdays, made up of other health care providers, and the experience of teaching them has been really interesting. At first I wasn't sure how it was going. There was a lot of turnover and people coming and going, but then a core group coalesced, and ...

...now I'm getting feedback from some of the doctors that the practice is helping them in and out of the job. With folks there having some positive experiences I decided that it would be worth a shot to do a presentation for the senior psychology faculty on the similarities between the dark night and depression, and the research and therapy questions that this raises. I was worried that I would sound CRAZY to my colleagues, however in went very very well. One of the most respected psychologists responded by wondering aloud "why have we never heard of this?" During the course of the presentation I realized that I was teaching them the basics of the path, giving them what a meditation teacher would give, but from the perspective of a psychologist and researcher. It was a great experience and gave me the "oomph" to make the choice to teach. The experience lingered in my mind for a while (I set up the post here and started thinking through the question in more detail) and I began to feel like I would be good at teaching if I gave it a try. It kind of nagged at me for a while. At first I thought I would just write, maybe use my credentials to get more information out there about all this stuff, and I still think that would be a good idea. But the experience of seeing my colleagues faces light up and the "aha" moment they all had was very gratifying.

I still don't know if it is a foolish choice. I'm kind of holding my breath a little to see what happens...

So, if I can summarize, your decision appears to be based on positive reactions you've received from those who you have either been teaching already (at work) or who you've interacted with through explaining what the path is about.

Because I know you and we've talked face to face I suspect you'll probably be a good teacher, Ron. But I remain curious about what appears to me to be a common yearning to teach among dedicated practitioners. I've never really been tempted in that direction and given what I know have always wondered why so many folks are. As you say, it's not an easy row to hoe, though I suspect a lot of folks think it is, at least at first.

Good luck with it!

Ron,
I think you'll be a great teacher. Throughout your entire journal, you have been incredibly honest about the process you underwent and continue to go through. This honesty will provide great inspiration for your students, I know that it inspired me. I wouldn't worry about getting conceited. It will be hard to do so when you have and continue to be so honest. Please keep us posted on your progress as you embark on teaching.

Thanks for the support Chris and John!

Another aspect of this that I forgot to mention before was that right after 1st path I had a strong desire to get the word out about this stuff - I started posting essays and open letters online and began getting more involved in the community here overall. I think this is a common experience for people, and one that calms on its own over time. When I look at the things I was writing back then I can see both the excitement of having discovered that this stuff is for real, and the continuing frustration and irritation that I wasn't done yet. For me, there is a part of that which never really went away.

I'm not totally sure what it is about, but I can say that I remember really well the years before getting clued into the maps and getting good instruction. There was so much frustration from pouring over books and listening to teachers and not really understanding what was happening or what I needed to do. It felt like either this whole thing was BS, the teachers out there didn't know what they were talking about or they were holding back something really important. I don't talk about that period in my practice very much, but it has always stuck with me. I guess there is a part of me that wants to be there for those folks who are going through something similar. I have a fantasy in which someone who is serious about enlightenment can get the same access to a good teacher and great instructions as someone who wants to run a marathon. It is crazy that this stuff is so mystical and mysterious - everyone should at least know what it is so they can choose to get on with it or decide that it isn't for them.

I guess there is a little bit of a sense of a cause percolating through in this decision... I don't know if that is a good that or a bad thing yet.

Ron, you are in a great position to teach -- you know the general territory of meditation (in fact, you are exceptionally clear on teasing out the nuances of the nanas, I've always been a bit jealous!) and being a therapist you can probably handle any meditation problems that start veering into clinical problems.

The trick is knowing that all of us have resource limitations and blindspots regardless of our skills and experiences. (Heck, that's why teachers are still students.) It's not so much a question of if you should teach, just more a question of how much you should teach. All of have a bit of a moral obligation to help others in this world, we should do what we can -- but no more than that!

Sometimes compassion can overwhelm our best intentions. We all have to limit what we bite off to what we can chew

That is some very good advice beta. I do have a tendency to get in over my head in projects and stuff - and there is no reason at all to suspect that this would be any different.

A note on why I'm posting about this on my practice thread:
I didn't really put it together at first, but someone may want to know why I would post about the choice to teach on a thread about practice. The reason why is that this decision is very much wound up in my practice - at least it feels that way. It seems as if explaining this to people and supporting others in their own development is where the practice itself is going. As if, by clarifying it for others, then awakening will deepen for me. I don't know if this is how it will actually turn out, or if that is just wishful thinking and more ego slipping in, but it really does feel that way for me right now.

"As if, by clarifying it for others, then awakening will deepen for me."

There is a sort of "syndication effect" that happens but in my experience it's not just in practice. My mind leans in that same direction - I think more clearly if I talk to another person about whatever is on my mind, is confusing me or seemingly complicated. The potential problem I think I encounter in doing this with dharma practice is that it's very conceptual. If concepts are what are being clarified then I need to be very clear about that. Otherwise meditation is a better method for gaining clarity.

"As if, by clarifying it for others, then awakening will deepen for me."

I think there's a lot to that. The whole interdependance of teacher and student is really complex, it's almost as if the "ignorance" of the student is actually a piece of the teacher...but if you really buy into that one-dimensionally, it turns into a strange kind of narcissism where the success of the student is an accomplishment of the teacher. (That's an extreme, though.)

The funny thing about teaching this stuff... really the only thing that makes progress is the sitting itself (as Chris said). So "teaching" isn't the job so much as helping create conditions where people sit and note and don't waste their time. Doing much more than that and it becomes a manipulation which can look like short term progress, but really isn't.

I guess it comes down to the boy scout rule about campsites, but for meditators: just make sure you leave them in better shape than you found them

This is where some of the Zen stuff makes sense to me. How do we clarify something that is not a concept? Since it is impossible to do, there has to be some sort of way of conveying this without turning it into just another big mystery.

I just don't know how to do this yet. I hope I can figure it out. Otherwise there is a danger of turning awakening into just another idea that the self uses to glom itself together.

"How do we clarify something that is not a concept?"

Ron, what do you mean by "clarify?" Is it possible the urge to clarify is the problem and not the solution?

If you have an empty room, how do you descrbe what the room is empty of ?

This is the same dilemma you have when trying to describe what enlightenment is !

All you can really do is write a long list of things that it is not. To the novice meditater this just sounds like a cop out.

So i think you have to avoid sounding too abstract and evasive, thats what i think this site does so well, but only for

meditaters with a certain level of experience. What do we do to pursuade the novice or the man in the street?

Maybe there's nothing you can do. Maybe it has to come from them. The hunger has to be there. Steve

"


Ron, what do you mean by "clarify?" Is it possible the urge to clarify is the problem and not the solution?

"

Good question - and now that I reflect on it I think that what you and Stephen are saying makes a lot of sense. There really is no clarifying this. The only thing there is really, is just "filtering" - disabusing people of fantasies about awakening. There is a needed balance though between that and also encouraging people to do the work and find out for themselves. That is probably one of the marks of a good teacher: they don't feed your fantasies about enlightenment, but they help you to keep moving forward anyway.

I've wondered about trying to clarify this stuff too, if only to make it easier to talk about with people from different traditions, and it seems like all we can do is to point at it and say "There you go, just see it for yourself" 'cause there's no words to accurately describe what changes post-Path, even for me wherever I am on these maps. It's like nothing's changed, but everything's changed although there's no paradox to be resolved as it's already answered itself through the experience. Or something. Ha!

Ron, I think you've got that 'something' which will make you a wonderful teacher to a lot of people. You're an honest, intelligent and down to earth guy with a great ability to express yourself clearly so I really, really hope all goes well.

Thanks Tom - that's wonderful to hear.

Funny thing, I just posted some Dharma instructions on my new site and kept wondering to myself - "Am I really a Buddhist?" After all, the instructions are pretty traditionally Buddhist, but I just don't feel like taking that label. I never had to tangle with question before really. Now that I'm trying to put myself out there into the world of identities and personalities I suspect a bunch of challenging questions will pop up.

Also, I think I am going through what Antero has called a mini dark night. For about three days I've been really irritable for no reason at all. It does evaporate when I notice it, but when I run around on autopilot (which I do a lot of), it is really impacting me. Interesting stuff. Post 4th just gets deeper...

There really is some sort of physiological and psychological fall-out from 4th. I'm wacky emotional turbulence right now, swinging back and forth between feeling so energetic and joyful that I can easily run on little sleep, to fatigued and cranky. There is definitely something happening to me, but I'm not entirely sure what it is.

I'm also discovering that 4th feels "done" but it certainly is not the end of the effort needed. If I don't make an effort to investigate and orient the mind toward the realization of non-self, it slips right back into the sense of a solid self running the show.

Ron,
I'd love the address for your site.
And... I'm curious about the point of all the effort to reach 4th path if it's so easy to experience life in the same way as before? Does the change ever become permanent and self sustaining, or is constant effort always required? Maybe it's more a question of how is(was) this seen as enlightenment?
Or...My understanding is weak(most likely).
Thanks.

'And... I'm curious about the point of all the effort to reach 4th path if it's so easy to experience life in the same way as before? Does the change ever become permanent and self sustaining, or is constant effort always required?'
- RevElev

Hi RevElev,

I think you raise an important question and this is an issue that I have been thinking about lately.

Kenneth's simile about cycling up the mountain until you attain 4th path and then continuing to develop while cycling downhill describes the situation nicely. There is still much to learn, but pedalling is easier on the other side.

In my experience the stages that happen after 4th path are even more life changing and as far as I know the changes they bring are permanent. Still after each cycle there is more to be learned and more room for development is revealed. One continues to spiral through various phases, so at times it is easier to be awake and at other times it requires more effort. If I put things in perspective and compare these phases to the time when I was cycling through nanas, it is a completely different world. There is no doubt that I am happier and freer than I was.

The paradox is that the moments of awakeness in themselves do not differ from those that happened pre-path (for example during noting). The experience is changed by the fact that these moments of being present come more often and in clusters instead of being sparse and isolated.

In that perspective someone could make the case by saying that there are no enlightened persons, just enlightened activity. This does not negate the fact that development does happen and it makes things so much easier.

Antero.

Ron is at a juncture during which the contrast between moments of clarity and awake-ness and moments of ignorance and habit are pretty stark. That will fade, at least in my experience. So one thing to keep in mind as you read these practice blogs and comments is "where" the commentator is on the path. And, as Antero said in his last post, being awake is not so much a characteristic of a person as much as it is a characteristic of the moments a person experiences. That, too, shines through Ron's comments. So the picture is at least a bit more consistent than it may appear, Rev, and the difference is very much worth all your best effort.

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the response from 2 post 4th yogis! Your numbers seem to be dwindling around here.
Sorry if I came off a little hostile in firing all these questions at Ron, not my intention at all.
What you say makes a lot of sense, I guess I'm still relearning what "enlightenment" means. Sometimes I still think I'll reach a point, when everything will be sunshine and rainbows, I'll be able to fly, read minds and make the perfect grilled cheese sandwich. From what I've experienced myself I can believe things improve a great deal post 4th. Like Buddha said if I want to know, find out for myself.
Thanks again.

Mmmm, grilled cheese sandwich...

"Ron,
I'd love the address for your site."

No problem Rev. It's :

alohadharma.wordpress.com/

Please remember that it is still under construction, so there is still some content in the works.

And DO NOT worry about firing off questions at me - that is the reason I'm keeping this open journal and documenting all the changes that happen. It's not just good for me, it's good for folks who are seriously trying to figure these things out.

The unfortunate truth is that I'm still working on making the perfect grilled cheese sandwich, but oddly, it feels like the imperfections are a lot tastier than they used to be...

EVERY grilled cheese sandwich is perfect.

"
EVERY grilled cheese sandwich is perfect.

"

True. Maybe it's the ability to be mindful of the gooey cheesy goodness, more then the sandwich itself.

Everything works that way.