yadid's practice journal

Decided to try out 2nd gear for a bit on the bus back home yesterday, still unable to 'dwell as the Witness', my practice in that sense consists of closing my eyes, experiencing whatever is there, body vibrations thoughts emotions etc.. and then asking 'who's observing all this?' 'to whom is this happening?', and every second something new comes up and the question is again asked, not verbally but kind of experientially looking for the observer of it all.

Today sitting for an hour in the morning mostly samatha, and in the evening another hour which was mostly a samatha and vipassana mix, anchored at the breath.. though I find that at times seeking 'who is experiencing all this?' helps me objectify quickly things which might have been taken as self for a longer period of time during the sitting.. I felt this sitting was pretty deep.. for me atleast.

Later, I go out.. I find that after deep sittings my perception of other humans and myself is altered a bit.. they seem like.. kind of like an animal specie.. anyway, today this happened again.. it's not bad or anything, just makes me see people more clearly I think.. less filters or something.

That's it for today!

"...mostly a samatha and vipassana mix, anchored at the breath.. though I find that at times seeking 'who is experiencing all this?' helps me objectify quickly things which might have been taken as self for a longer period of time during the sitting.. I felt this sitting was pretty deep.. for me atleast."-yadidb

Excellent, Yadid. This is the way. When you objectify the subtlest strata of mind, the layers at which the senses of knowing or "knower" seem to arise, there is no place for ignorance to hide. By practicing like this you are both dis-embedding from lower strata and cultivating the higher strata of mind. As you cultivate these higher strata of mind, you see the truth of both emptiness and form. In other words, you see that all of us are just little balls of conditioning walking around pretending to be important. At the same time, you feel great compassion for all of these silly creatures, yourself included, and want to care for them.

Karuna,

Kenneth

Thanks for the reply Kenneth.

Here's another update:
Have been sitting for an hour every day, studying for a Social Psychology exam coming up.. lots to do.
Last night's sitting was interesting. Currently what I do is watch the breath as much as possible, use it as an anchor, and simultanously try to objectify all that is arising.. be it sensations or thoughts / mental phenomena. So something interesting that happens after a while is that all these mental phenomena of 'stories' come up, internal chatter, but it is more subtle.. and as soon as I inquire 'who is experiencing this' I realize it is not 'me' and it passes, and so on.

And a quick funny update: reading all this social psychology is funny and interesting in the context of this work. it seems that the psychologists have found that that our awareness of our own demise causes us to seek ways to alleviate our 'existential terror' by means of 'terror management'.

and one last quote from the copious amounts of research im reading: "Although we generally experience ourselves as relatively consistent over time, it is nonetheless true that people do change'.
I find that experientially what remains is always this sense of 'I' - and behaviour and reactive patterns..
When I inquire into the 'I' during meditation my attention is drawn to the chest area.. Still trying to find this slippery "i".

came back from a 4.5 day retreat today.. it was great, although not quite what im used to.
all the retreats i've done so far were Goenka-style - very strong discipline and segregation,
this time the retreat was up north (goenka is in the desert) - lots of rain and green mountains,
Shaila Catherine was the teacher. and also I went with my girlfriend which was her first time,
it was very challenging but I found that it helepd me keep in touch with somethings which i'm usually not in touch with during retreats.

anyway - in regards to actual practice, during the last day I found that after some concentration is developed i am able to rapidly notice how reality presents itself every second, the body sensations, all the senses - ding ding ding ding ding, every second remanifesting.
sometimes I thought I reached equanimity, sometimes darknight, but i tried not to analyze but just settle into a profound examination.
I hope to continue and reinforce my daily practice now because during this hectic exam period i stopped practicing every day.

we left the retreat early (just as the whole sensate-universe was ringing) because my girlfriend has had enough but i was quite fine with it at the time.. I got a place in the same retreat-centre in a few weeks for a 7-day retreat with Christopher Titmuss.. looking forward to it.

Oh i forgot to add - this whole rapid noticing started when I began doing some noting practice for whatever arose.

Got back from a 7-day retreat with Christopher Titmuss, It was quite nice to sit in a different atmosphere than the one im used to, as well as Christopher being quite a remarkable teacher.

In regards to practice, I tried to note more and more, though I find much inner resistance to this practice since it is so difficult, though I see how it is much much deeper in terms of objectifying phenomena, rather than just noticing (though sometimes , I guess in the stage of Equanimity, or what I think is Equanimity, noticing deeply is deep even without noting)..
When I thought I reached Equanimity it felt like I could see the arising of a mental phenomena, thought or emotion or more complex things, and I would see that as anatta in a deeper way as usual and how quickly as it arises, the mind grabs hold of it and makes it I - which caused me suffering.. I then fell back.

Now back from the retreat I feel like woozy and light-headed, it is a sort of physical feeling of being a bit drunk.. not sure.. it started on the day before the retreat ended.

looking forward to making more progress in noting in my daily practice.

"

looking forward to making more progress in noting in my daily practice."

Hey Yadidb,

Sounds like you are making progress. I found the coupling of noting with my developed awareness of the flow of vibrations on the body to be a very powerful combination. Have you tried seeing how the sensations of "I" are jumping in and out as other phenomena are observed and noted? I found when I noted really fast, as fast as possible....dingdingding!.....that there were longer moments without the "i" jumping in. and when it did....either noticed as an image and/or sensations, it would be brought into the noticing...."I", ding, image, ding, feeling (at throat),ding, image, ding, feeling, feeling,image.dingdingsing...etc
Seeing the "I" blink in and out of the bare sensate experience usually became real easy for me at the equanimity of formations stage but after sometime practicing this way, I was aware of it even at reobservation . I found objectifying the "I" took me places I wanted to go.

Thanks for the reply Nikolai.

Actually, it's funny that you don't even know that the descriptions of your own experiences have actually rang in my mind while I was sitting this retreat, just shows how we're all interdependent. your own progress has definitely strengthened my own trust / faith in the process and progress on the path.

Now back to this retreat.. so I was actually not putting enough or as much effort as I should or could.. various factors helped this but I'm certainly going to learn from it for the next one - I didn't stick with the noting and only started doing it on the second to last day which brought me to equanimity again.

I remembered what you wrote about seeing the sensations of "I" jumping in and out, and this was seen at some point, but not just sensations of I, it was actually more like.. POP! mental phenomena, emotion, desire, etc and as quickly as that arose and was seen how "I" is placed upon it.
I also was able to see more of this when I fell back to the dark night, though in equanimity i was much more at peace rather than resisting.

After the retreat I got the usual "high" though this time much more chilled, able to cope with various ups and downs, many of which have occured (drama of my lovely and sweet girlfriend's mood mainly) since I returned with much equanimity and more and more I see humans in a much more equanimous and compassionate way.

I'd love to hear more of the way you practiced on that retreat, it's very helpful since we both come from a similar background of practice. Also, how does your fiancé deal with your fascination of practice?

Thanks again for the inspiration bro

No worries Yadidb,

It is what makes me the happiest. Helping others getting it done!

When you say that the emotions and desire along with mental phenomena are being read as "I", that is what I was experiencing. For me, I would feel sensations within the head, behind the eyeballs, the space around there giving the impression of a "presence".... But also there would be some other sensation which would colour the presence with an emotion or feeling such as worry, fear or agitation, or desire, passion etc. Or even anticipation, boredom, confusion.

All these emotions, feelings and mental states were mental reactions to particular flows of sensations I felt at at least three distinct places, the solar plexus, the heart and the throat. That feeling of presence in the head coupled with a flow of sensation at one of those places was being read as "I" (and still is). But they seemed not to arise or be read at the same time but one after the other at an extreme rate. Getting to high equanimity really made it possible to see all this occurring. When each sensation and mental image (generally a generic male face representing my self image) arose like that one after the other, I would be noting them at that speed....suffice to say, I was mentally noting so fast that I was just mentally tapping each phenomena with a mentalised "mmm". When I felt my concentration waning, I would go back to noting with specific terms like feeling, feeling, image, feeling, image. If that was too vague, I would be more specific, noting pleasant sensation, negative, happiness, boredom, anticipation, lost, lost, wandering etc...then when the mind sped up, it would go back to mental tapping. Then at some stage in high equnimity it would become automatic and the mind just registered all those phenomena by itself.

My advice, would be to go all out with the noting. Note every moment of your retreat when you are awake. That is what I did on the retreat where I got 1st path. I noted continuously. there were no gaps until i fell asleep. Everything I did outside of sitting meditation was noted...every thought, every feeling, sensation, mental state, body movement, things in the visual field (seeing), things heard (hearing) , tasting. I can't stress enough how this helped me progress. I mean, it even shocked me how fast I progressed.

I seriously had been off and on meditating for a year, noting occasionally, a bit of kasina practice. But I dont think you could call me 100 % dedidcated to everyday practice. But at least one month before the 10 day course, I just began noting like crazy in my hour sits, 2 times a day. Then a week before the course, I started doing at least 3 or 4 hours a day. i got myself up to high equanimity at every sit and that is the stage I was in when I started the course. I had full momentum and kept it going and sped it up by noting 24/7. This cannot be stressed enough. Maybe someone will tell you to ease up...or take it easy but for me the continuous momentum of non stop noting of EVERYTHING that makes up the experience of this body and this mind made it so that I got 1st path on the 5th day of a normal 10 day goenka retreat. I was so amazed and shocked that it worked. I remember sitting in my cell just blissed out and trying to come to terms with the fact that I had just done something considered quite lofty and unatainable in that tradition. And really it doesnt have to be lofty. It wasnt when I think about it. Sure, 9 years of practicing being equanmious with the sensations gave me a good base to jump from. but I really hit the ground running with the non stop noting.

Yeh, note, note, and note everything that is experienced. Don't let up. Be relentless in your noting. Again, I am only speaking from my own experience. My mantra was momentum and I rememeber when I felt myself falling into reobservation and had the feeling of giving up, I would just remind myself it was all about momentum, momentum, momentum. This gave me the mental energy to keep going. I had one focus and that was noting everything. Nothing was missed.

Again, one has to be wary of taking this to the extreme. And I did take it to the extreme. It has to be balanced with wisdom of course. On the 4th day, I lost it because I was so lost in the craving for stream entry that it is what pushed me back into the dukkha nanas. And I eventually gave up my resolution to achive stream entry. Once I had done that, I felt freed up to keep with the momentum. Craving for path is your enemy! Note it!

Resolutions are also something you could give a go at. For me, I resolved to take it all the way and note 24/7 until i had gotten it. There is something powerful about taking a resolution. Again, coupled with wisdom and not craving.

My concentration was extremely strong too. This also I cant stress enough. It was a significant factor. I had been dabbling with kasinas off and on for a year. Then on the course, I found a toilet roll. Ripped it in half and put it at the bottom of my cell door. I put two cushions on either side of it so that the light shining in under the door was seen only through the circular roll. I looked at it for 15 minutes, felt the mind shift into a very concentrated state and starting noting everything. It was a very important factor in doing it.

I sometimes leave things out cos of forgetfulness so ask any questions you want. Hope this helps!

"
Also, how does your fiancé deal with your fascination of practice?
"

I explained it all in great detail to her when I saw her again after it. She had known about what I was into when she got to know me at the courting stage. And she was with me when I stumbled across daniel Ingram´s book. And I told her everything about what i intended to do on the course. She has always been supportive although at times feels a little overloaded with all the info I let her in on. She just says how interesting and cool it all is. She has started doin noting meditation out of interest as well as the fact that we are translating Kenneth´s writings here into Spanish. So she is getting quite a lot of exposre to it all.

I like to think we have a karmic bond and one day she will also , in her own time, get it done too. I dont pressure her though or she justs tells me off. Hehe!

"I like to think we have a karmic bond and one day she will also , in her own time, get it done too. I dont pressure her though or she justs tells me off. Hehe!"

Nice.

Same here.. my girlfriend came with me on her first retreat several weeks ago which we ended up leaving early after 5 days, nevertheless, it was very good - It's nice for her to take interest in something I like very much to say the least. First time for me of sitting in a non-Goenka centre here in Israel and it is quite nice to have a place with not so rigid dogmatic rules though I find I need much more self motivation there.

Just some practice notes from today,
I am finding noting to be extremely good and better in a way than just sensations. Things are just objectified better in this way.. and truly feeling how disembedding equals freedom.. Planning on trying some of Kenneth advice about dedicating some time to just note feeling note.

Though several things in struggling with are:
attention, at times I am aware of so many things and no time to note them all..
I'm working like: rising rising rising rising, falling falling falling falling sound sound itch itch desire to cough desire to cough coughing coughing coughing etc..
though in between and during the notes other things are happening which i am aware of.. so also noting some frusration
This, as well as spacing out during various times.

A comment about Dukkha Nanas: It truly feels like practice is the most important thing during these stages. Very thankful for all the information in regards to this and help from others which allows me to live a normal life without making any stupid decisions, while still making progress or at least attempting to

Nikolai: were you working with the abdomen or the nostrils? a teacher at recent retreat said something quite strange.. that working with the nostrils is more 'illusioning'.. I dunno what she means.

"Though several things in struggling with are:
attention, at times I am aware of so many things and no time to note them all..
I'm working like: rising rising rising rising, falling falling falling falling sound sound itch itch desire to cough desire to cough coughing coughing coughing etc..
though in between and during the notes other things are happening which i am aware of.. so also noting some frusration
"

When that happened to me I noted the spaces in between what I was noting as feeling, feeling,"missing", image ,"something", feeling, image, "something", "confusion", "wandering" etc.

The point I am trying to make is you could even note those moments where you "miss" something as just a moment of "missing" or "something" or "confusion"...at least you have objectified that moment. When it becomes clearer later you can put a more accurate name on it. In my experience it helped disembed from even the state of confusion and the 'not fast enough" state of mind.

And I am a nostril man if I had to choose. These days, doing a bit of anapana is quite blissful and highly effective in making a jhana harder.

If you are asking me which i would do in order to work on concentration, I would say I am a kasina man now. Much more effective in my opinion.

But observing the breath really is wonderful these days.

I'll definitely try Kasinas more.. though plates didn't really do it for me, I might try something else. Did you usually use the light kasina?

also, how did that teacher at your retreat respond to your reports of experiencing fruition?

"I'll definitely try Kasinas more.. though plates didn't really do it for me, I might try something else. Did you usually use the light kasina?

also, how did that teacher at your retreat respond to your reports of experiencing fruition?"

No, that time on the course was the only time I have ever used a light kasina. Most of the time before when using one, it was a blue breakfast bowl which i used. I dont think it has to be a particular colour. Something that agrees with you is enough, I reckon.

When I told the teacher on the course, he told me flat out that he had never experienced anything I had described to him. Maybe I used language that didnt convey my experience very well. But I also asked him if he knew of anyone that had "dipped" that was near the course centre. This is the main centre in Australia. He said, no, he didnt know anyone who had dipped in that area including himself. I asked this at the time when i was experiencing the "dip" fits which i described in my account of the course. He was one of the head teachers in the Goenka tradition.

Plus, I have heard on the grapevine, that most of the teachers who have followed Goenka for years, have not attained stream entry yet because they have all taken a vow to be reborn in some future life with Goenka and attain it then. This coming from people who sat a Teacher's self course in India with him. Goenka supposedly said all this before the course. Something like, those who will be sitting this course will not attain stream entry in this lifetime. Dont know how true it is but it makes sense to me with the way they teach meditation and all there. Not much emphasis in getting it done in this lifetime.

That's just both beautiful and disconcerting at the same time..
Well many people must cross the A&P and then spend so much time in dukkha territory, ouch.
Surely that must be one of the reasons this tradition is so renunciative, as well as Goenka saying on the 3-day course discourse that "If you are to reach the highest stages of peace and harmony you will become naturally celibate". man that just influences people's views so much.. as well as his phrase during the 10-days that "the 7th and 8th jhanas are now lost to India and the world", that just struck me as odd.

And speaking of dukka nanas, i'm becoming more and more acquainted with what I think to be Re-observation - sensations at the legs and feet which are just unbearable. If I try to observe them more and more without moving (just going about my daily life, for example today at the cinema) my legs start to slowly fidget involuntarily and then eventually i just have to move every few seconds, pure and raw suffering, what Shinzen Young calls "yucky sensations". harsh!

Though I think something clicked in regards to 'getting this done' already.. I feel I was kinda tricked by my own mind in this retreat, wallowed in a lot of stuff so to say, or just didn't note the hell out of the whole fluxing field because I wasn't quite used to that sort of approach and was stuck to one way of doing this.. will try to find some days alone, retreat or not, to do this.

Practicing more and more noting at home to prepare for a 3 or 2 day retreat I'll be doing when I get the time in the coming weeks.
i find that sometimes im seeking to find something to note, and then I note just that, the seeking..
Things are just so fast all the time which is hard to note, so sometimes I go slow, but usually the physical sensations are just always a bunch of fast vibrations, unless some itch arises or some pain.

"... Goenka saying on the 3-day course discourse that 'If you are to reach the highest stages of peace and harmony you will become naturally celibate.' man that just influences people's views so much.. as well as his phrase during the 10-days that 'the 7th and 8th jhanas are now lost to India and the world', that just struck me as odd."-yadidb

When a teacher as beloved, renowned, charismatic, and in some respects effective as Mr. Goenka says something like this, it can't help but affect people. Ladies and gentleman we are witnessing the glass ceiling effect. I don't doubt Mr. Goenka's good intentions for even a moment. But he does damage with this kind of inaccurate information precisely because he is considered an authority.

An open letter to Mr. Goenka (assuming he actually made the above claims):

Mr. Goenka, you are mistaken. The 7th and 8th jhanas are not lost. They are part of the collective treasure of humankind and they can be uncovered by anyone who is willing to look carefully at their own experience. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that enlightenment leads naturally to celibacy. In fact, there is abundant evidence to the contrary; there is no shortage of enlightened people with normal, healthy sex lives. Something as deeply natural to human beings as the drive for sex does not go away. You do everyone a disservice by making claims based on tradition, hearsay, or magical or mythical thinking. I can only implore you to confine your comments to your personal experience. To do otherwise is to actively spread misinformation that can be harmful to others. When respected teachers insist that enlightenment is not a realistic goal, they create a glass ceiling effect that can hold their students back. I know this is not your intention, but it is the inevitable result of making claims about enlightenment that are not rooted in your own experience.

Kenneth Folk

He has, in the 3 day course discourses and the 10 day course discourses. The 10 day was filmed well over 20 odd years ago now so it is a bit old but even so, saying the 7th and 8th jhanas are lost is just plain wrong, i would even assume for 20 years ago. When i told a trusted friend who is deeply immersed in that tradition about my experience, he asked me specifically about the 7th and 8th jhana. I just said, man, that just ain't true. I experience everytime I sit.

I have thought often of writing a letter to Goenka saying something along the lines of what you have said, Kenneth. He has so much influence and so many people follow him without questioning any of his ideas. It is amazing how attached some are. And the celibate thing has caused a lot of angst I think in many people. So much dogma and misinformation.
I went to a high up teacher in that tradtion to tell her about getting path because I wanted some guidance. I told her what had happened to me, mentioned the fruitions etc, and she said flat out that it wasn't stream entry because you should be able to sit for one minute at least in nibbana. I just don't know how all this happened but I really feel sorry for all those who are floundering in Dark night, blindly following ideas which are really so against the actual reality of it all.

Thanks for reporting this, Nick. I think we all have a right to know what is going on. The internet is good for that! The mushroom culture can only thrive in the dark.

Kenneth

"By practicing Dhamma , both husband and wife will ultimately reach the stage where they naturally live a life of celibacy. [...] If both are good Vipassana meditators, when passion arises they observe the sensations arising and accept the fact, "There is passion in my mind." As they observe the sensations they will probably come out of passion. But if they don't and have bodily relations, there is nothing wrong because they have not broken their sila. I have seen many cases where, if they keep working like this, people easily come out of passion and still feel so contented, so happy. The need does not arise. A sexual relationship is actually designed by nature for reproduction, but it is human beings' weakness to go against nature and use it only for passion.
Slowly, if you keep working with Vipassana, you will come out of passion and reach a stage where there is a natural celibacy - a celibacy achieved through suppression doesn't help - and this natural celibacy will help you develop so much in Dhamma. You progress by leaps and bounds once you reach that stage." SN Goenka, March 22, 1998 (Out of "For the benefit of many")

Thanks, Yadid, for posting this excerpt from Mr. Goenka's book. This gives us some more context. He seems to equate happiness with "coming out of passion." I have a very different view on this, of course:

Observing the sensations of "passion" does not prevent them from arising any more than observing the sensations of hunger absolves one from the need to eat. Similarly, observing the sensations of the breath does not excuse us from the desire to breathe. The desires we experience in relation to breathing, eating, physical intimacy, sexuality, social interaction, intellectual stimulation, etc. are not diseases to be overcome. They are part of human nature. Human nature is not a problem, it is life. To be able to see that everything we think, say, feel, and do arises and passes away within the field of experience is enlightenment. To see that even the sense that this is happening to "me" arises and passes away within the field of experience is enlightenment. And to see that all of this is known by and is not other than awareness is enlightenment.

All of the ideas about what an enlightened person would be like are just ideas, arising and passing away in this moment. Best of all, each of us has the opportunity to do the experiment and draw our own conclusions. I ask people to be very slow to accept other people's ideas about something so important as freedom. It's such a relief to just let reality be what it is.

Kenneth

The view that "sex is designed by nature for reproduction, human beings' weakness to go against nature and use it for passion" is the view held by orthodoxes of many religions.

Practice:

Bought myself two bowls, one red and one orange, for kasina practice.
Tonight's 30min sit: stared at red bowl, it started shaking, then disappeared, reappeared, stared at it some more, disappeared, closed my eyes and started noting.
This is one powerful technique, this is why it was so hard for me to start doing it. it is a hard technique since you cannot day dream while engaging in this because 'dreaming dreaming' and it goes away.
Entered several altered states, or 'pleasant' stratas of mind during this sit. One of which was a feeling of the head expanding up which is very pleasant, noted the hell out of that experience. also another one where it feels like everything is expanding side-wise, noted that as well.
Also several auditory and visual 'hallucinations' or rather 'imaginations' which disappeared as soon as I dis embedded from them by noting them.
I find that this also happens when I do noting while going to sleep. dreams begin arising and I note them.

Looking forward to continuing this investigation and more focused practice! Tomorrow I will try to do a self-retreat, or rather a day of more practice since I have the day off. I hope to sit at least 5 hours.

Today at the supermarket I noticed I feel more and more like what's behind other beings' eyes is what's behind my eyes, a space that things arise in, therefore judgments, though they do arise, have much less power over me.

The pull towards awakening has got a strong hold over me. I certainly feel that I've got a bad case of 'insight-disease' .