Tummo

"Luckily I found the the best version of "Tibetan Yogas and the secret doctrines" on the net. It includes nearly all details. Together with the videos and the thread you have much more information than most lamas and it should be useable (and I don't need to type it all). Here is the link:

www.scribd.com/doc/35504018/Tibetan-Yoga-and-Secret-Doctrines

So you know what to do when you fall into the fridge.
"

Yay - that will save me loads of money drying clothes. Thanks for all the fascinating tidbits on these practices, LA.

"
Thank you for your encouragement, Loco, as well as for your openness to share this. I can answer your questions as follows:
- I would say that the contractions lasted for about 5 to 10 seconds, with about 10 seconds between contractions.
- I haven't done much pranayama lately, but I can hold my breath for at least 90 seconds.
- The contractions were felt around the navel chakra, but involved the whole lower abdomen, forward and backward, like a spontaneous bhastrika.
- By emptiness, I mean the fading away of thr sense of self, while everything from the body to the world outside feels transparant, insubstantial and almost dreamlike, with a deep sense of silence and clarity.
- Since I was trained in Hatha Yoga by an Indian yogi of Swami Satyananda Sarasvati's Bihar Yoga Bharati, I am used to the Hindu version. I made the vajra fist mudra however and will learn the Tibetan sitting posture.

I started it in the evening last night and, the first time, exhaled the energy through the crown chakra. I felt a bit of pressure there afterward, but the first Tsa Lung exercise posted on your video cleared it. My sleep was shallow due to excessive energy. I therefore decided to rearrange my schedule to practice in the marning. Accordingly, I started at 6am this morning and feel great.
"

Ok, give me some time, I try to reproduce it with the 70secs...

"Luckily I found the the best version of "Tibetan Yogas and the secret doctrines" on the net. It includes nearly all details. Together with the videos and the thread you have much more information than most lamas and it should be useable (and I don't need to type it all). Here is the link:

www.scribd.com/doc/35504018/Tibetan-Yoga-and-Secret-Doctrines

So you know what to do when you fall into the fridge.
"

It would be cool if someone could undertake to consolidate Loco's instructions in this thread into a "Guest Writing".

Checklist

1st week:
Lying, start with the pelvic muscles pulsing easy, slightly, quickly, 1 set is 50-200 repetition, also during the day whenever possible, let the breath be as it is, relax

2nd week:
Time
In the morning?
Not eaten yet?

(start 9 breaths of purification easy and gentle)
start Tsa lung easy and gentle as seen in the video

3rd week
(9 breaths of purification)
Tsa lung Train the breath, hold it longer during Tsa Lung

Add Tummo:

- Time
In the morning?
Not eaten yet?

- Position standing
Toes a bit to the outside?
Knees slightly bent?
Thumbnail pressed indexfingernail? rest of the fingers extend?
thoracic spine straight?

- Position sitting
A bit weight on the bent wrists on the thighs, because of this thoracic spine straight?
fists included the thumb but index finger extend?

1. Inhale :
75%
Same amount of air in both lungs?
sternum a bit up/proud/forward? also means thoracic spine straight? vertebrae like if you put coins over each other?
Pulled lowerbelly in? diaphragm a bit pulled upwards?


1b Chin against the chest?

Contraction pelvic muscles
backwards?
frontside?
symmetrically contracted?
stronger possible?

2. Hold
not pressuring? let it happen, relax but keep an eye on the posture and pelvic contractions. concentrate on one of the spots
3. Refill completely and correct lung volumina
spotconcentration?

4 Exhale
arrow breathing: exhaled stronger at the end (like in Tsa lung video)?
through the nose?
not collapsed the upper part of the body? elongated it
completely emptied the lungs?

5. Inhale
took a full (!) inbreath in the first inhaling after releasing?

4th week
Additional exercises (Tsa Lung, 9 breaths) if you like them, also possible to do only

Tummo
do the circle 1-5 above for one hour, lets say 70-90 seconds retention would be approximately 30 repetitions, pauses included

There will quickly come a time when your "central channel" is free. Forget about the rules then. You can do Tummo while shopping with your girlfriend, serving 8 Caipirinhas, drinking 8 Caipirinhas, massaging an euphoric elephant, talking in front of islamistic parties, sitting, lying, standing, walking (I haven't tried running, but should work). You will feel addicted to it.

You have then finished the basic stage.

Here is the link for the instruction video of 9 breaths of purification:

www.vimeo.com/28610403

"1st week:
Lying, start with the pelvic muscles pulsing easy, slightly, quickly , 1 set is 50-200 repetition, also during the day whenever possible, let the breath be as it is, relax
"

Should you not add here "practice holding your breath until you can easily do it for 90 seconds"?

Thanks a lot, Loco.

"Should you not add here "practice holding your breath until you can easily do it for 90 seconds"?"

Yes, you are right. I decided to take that out and added the 9 breaths of purification instead. it is gentler now. it will help to eliminate sideeffects this way. the truth is that one can not completely objectify the time, cause some people have f.e. smaller lungs in relation to their weight. it depends on age, female/male, training, altitude you life in (tibet is 6000m), genetics.
(by the way through development one can improve his lung volume from average 3-4l (elder people 2l) up to 8l, which will change your level of energy also in a very physical way.) We we all be at the right level after the 4-6 weeks this way, no matter where one started.

I have done tummo almost every morning for 25 - 30 minutes according to Loco's instructions. I usually start with 60 second breath retentions and slowly increase the time up to 90 seconds. This is my comfort zone where I am not getting much out of breath. Sometimes I go for the maximum which seems to be 120 seconds, although in my experience straining and too much discomfort is not imroving the results.Now after a couple of weeks of practice the initial shaking and discomfort have faded to almost nothing.

The mind is calmed and pleasant warmness is produced in the body. During the retention I keep my attention at the perineum which is contracted tightly and lifted up. During the resting period I visualize warm red light rising up from the base of the spine with every inhalation and spreading throughout the body with every exhalation. My hypothesis is that the mind will eventually connect these two experiences and starts to produce warmth just by doing the visualization alone.

The amount of heat produced during the practice does not seem to be connected to the lenght of the retention. Part of the heat could be coming from the friction of energy travelling through the impure nadis, but this cannot be the case with the experienced tibetan monks, so there must some other handle to the body's own thermostat. Does anyone have an idea what that handle could be?

The mind slows down considerably during the practice and when I lay down and do some relaxation exercise afterwards, the body is shaking with energy.

"
Thumbnail pressed indexfingernail? rest of the fingers extend?
thoracic spine straight?


3. Refill completely and correct lung volumina
spotconcentration?

"

Hey LocoAustiaco,
Thanks for sharing this practise so openly!
I would love some clarification about the mudra and the third step mentioned in the quoted part of your post.
Regarding the mudra, do you mean that the thumb presses on the Large Intestine 1 point as shown in this picture here?
acupunctureschoolonline.com/wp-content/u...Points-1-300x284.jpg

Regarding the third step, which comes between Holding and Exhaling, do you mean to first hold the breath to a capacity of 75% until step three where you breathe in the remaining 25%? "Refill" sounds like you exhaled something right after holding it in which doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks for any clarification.

Hi guys, I am busy at the moment, I'll be back soon or try to post something back via iphone the next days. Thank you.

@ Hi Antero: Let me first get some information, cause you are experienced in other traditions and I would be very interested in your description without having influenced you :

1. Have you had an experience similar or close to Nirodha Samapatti along your practice?
2.The warmth you are describing has it appeared in other practices too or is it the first time?
3. The calmness is their a relation to a jhana or not?
4. Has something changed concerning your skin?
5. In your dreamlife?
6. Have you tried it in the cold already?
7. Have you had experiences of having access to the 6 lokas (roams of beeing)?
8. changes in the selfperception of body-size? and/or connectedness to the ground or material things like walls/soil and/or childlike contact to the world as a very material phenomenon?

"Hey LocoAustiaco,
Thanks for sharing this practise so openly!
I would love some clarification about the mudra and the third step mentioned in the quoted part of your post.
Regarding the mudra, do you mean that the thumb presses on the Large Intestine 1 point as shown in this picture here?
acupunctureschoolonline.com/wp-content/u...Points-1-300x284.jpg

Regarding the third step, which comes between Holding and Exhaling, do you mean to first hold the breath to a capacity of 75% until step three where you breathe in the remaining 25%? "Refill" sounds like you exhaled something right after holding it in which doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks for any clarification."

Hey Nedhavi,

@Mudra: Yes, the picture shows the point. It has a strong psychosomatic component (opens the nose, relaxes the head and thoughts, deepens breath) and is by the way used in TCM in emergencies against pain, fever and asthma. you can also tap it for 2mins before starting (not done traditionally but good for seeing its effect)

@third step: yes, thanks for asking. hold the 75% and then fill up to 100%. Don't exhale the 75%. Keep them in and add the missing 25%. Some people will find that they are able to add another and another step with some % because their lungs got elastic. You can do that too if it feels natural to you. The sense is 1. to prolong the exercise and 2. not to start with 100% because it can create a tendency in some people to press against the inner pressure of the full lungs which raises bloodpressure (like trumpetplayers) and is not needed nor useful.

Would fill up to 100% fit better than refill? (I would like to edit it and english is not my mother tongue) thanks

Very interesting thread.
What are the four blisses, the four emptinesses and the clear light ?

Hey there. First of all, nice forum, nice people, nice knowledge!

Second: nice thread!

Third: I was wondering if you would chime in on this thing I experienced today.

dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussio...ards/message/2283372
(at the time of posting, what is relevant is the last post by me)

I remembered having read some of this thread and that some if not all of the things mentioned here are the same/related. I don't want to repost and hijack this amazing thread, although if that is OK I will gladly repost here.

Also worth mentioning is that sitting here right now, flexing that muscle on the side (probably in a wrong manner), I had a smooth jerking of the spine, kind of like "doing the snake" in breakdance. The energy, although very faint, felt very frightening and I wonder how likely one is to have a kundalini awakening and possibly suffer kundalini syndrome from this thing.

Hi StianGH, it rather reminds me of something that can happen in the higher stages of tummo about which I have not posted. On the other hand it is not very probable to get there accidentally (or better said only accidentally, it has to do with how to open the gates to death). I am afraid I don't have a clear answer for your question.

LocoAustriaco,
First of all, thanks for sharing, really.
Would you mind some more questions concerning the practice?

In post 39, about the lower abdomen you say
"6. Train it a while to find out how it opens the heart after releasing it. Notice also the joy."
- Is the heart component important?
About holding

The breath is hold inside the thorax/rib cage with the diaphragm pressing it up and the chin look holding it down, right? Is there any pressure towards the navel?

When you say hold the breath for about one and a half minute, is that after you have inhaled?

Do you inhale slowly or rapidly?

The shakings/ wave number 1,2,3, are they all occuring within one holding of breath?

And some other questions if you don't mind:
Was there anything permanent left after you stopped doing the practice or was all the progress, all effects lost?
Has this helped you with your other practices?

Thanks again LocoAustriaco, wish you the best!
San Raal

- Is the heart component important?
All energy systems have two components: producing energy and distributing it to the right place. the contraction at the root is producing energy while the diaphragm distributes it upward. both factors are important to avoid unnecessary problems, but if you are tuff enough you could also simply flood the system with energy and wait, like some other spiritual systems do. the heart component brings in a very personal, loving, light, open, fresh quality and balances the predator/animallike power that appears.

-The breath is hold inside the thorax/rib cage with the diaphragm pressing it up and the chin look holding it down, right? Is there any pressure towards the navel?

Yes, a little inward upward under the navel resulting from the diaphragm "flying high". rather effortless like when a young boy sees a beautiful women and naturally draws himself to his full height. And: If you find the place to lock in the diaphragm it rests there naturally and it doesn't feel so much like pressing it up.

-When you say hold the breath for about one and a half minute, is that after you have inhaled?
Yes

-Do you inhale slowly or rapidly?
Normal-slowly

-The shakings/ wave number 1,2,3, are they all occuring within one holding of breath?
Yes. They will get softer after some progress, but first one has to survive them

- Was there anything permanent left after you stopped doing the practice or was all the progress, all effects lost?
Concerning the bodily effects, I would say its lost Yes. f.e. I still wear only t-shirts in winter in NY but it gets sometimes cold, wounds do not heal within a day anymore and and after love I am sleepy, etc, etc.
The mental aspect of the experience has burned itself into my brain and I will never be able to forget it. Somedays my body is seeking the old energylevel does the exercise by itself.
cont

The mental aspect of the experience has still an impact on my life, probably because I know I can go everytime I want into a state that knows neither harm nor fear and get from the world what I want . (became wealthy from the readiness to play the game of life to the fullest, a sometimes seen result of that development. when object, subject and action are one, you know what to do and do it in the right moment, you don't ask anymore) on that background phenomenons like fear, pain and suffering do not appear dangerous or unpleasant to me but are a deepening part of life and make the whole thing round. I like them somehow, especially when they get strong.

-Has this helped you with your other practices?
I still have an rather easy access to mahamudra and it actualises quickly when I meet somebody who has it or somebody i love. the joy of beeing together then is not describable. I have access to one or two states that would probably be called jhanas here but i haven't seen them described.
I probably don't take practices that don't know mahamudra so seriously anymore, but I am still experimenting and still open. And curious. The problem with mahamudra seems to be (in my case) that once you 've experienced it, you don't need to manifest it or anything anymore, because you now know that it is there and always will be there no matter what you think you have attained or not attained. there is no better and no worse and we were all safe and secure from the beginning.

Thanks, now it's clear for me.
I am preparing for the main practice.
Wish you all the best LA!
SR

"1. Have you had an experience similar or close to Nirodha Samapatti along your practice?
2.The warmth you are describing has it appeared in other practices too or is it the first time?
3. The calmness is their a relation to a jhana or not?
4. Has something changed concerning your skin?
5. In your dreamlife?
6. Have you tried it in the cold already?
7. Have you had experiences of having access to the 6 lokas (roams of beeing)?
8. changes in the selfperception of body-size? and/or connectedness to the ground or material things like walls/soil and/or childlike contact to the world as a very material phenomenon?

- LocoAustriaco"

1. The slowing down of the mind is similar to the early stages of NS
2. I have never had it with meditation practices but the feeling is familiar from Ashtanga Vinyasa asana practice
3. I don't think so
4. No
5. Somewhat reduced need to sleep, increased clarity
6. Not yet, so far it has been very warm autumn
7. Don't know about Lokas
8. No.

The most significant effect for me is the shaking and twitching when doing relaxation after practice.

"Thanks, now it's clear for me.
I am preparing for the main practice.
Wish you all the best LA!
SR"

Thank you, good luck and have fun

Aah, btw:
How much experience of meditation and energetic techniques (qigong, IMA, physical yogas and pranayamas) had you before you began your tummo?

SR

Energies: If one describes phenomena as energy movements one normally refers to sensations like streaming, flowing, tingling, pulsing, warmth, musclecontractions etc. These phenomena can be described in a 3rd person or scientific perspective also. it is useful to do this in cases where we want to find what precisely is happening and not so much how it feels for the person who experiences the phenomenon.

the body can be seen as a skin-balloon filled with liquids namely blood and lymph (around 70% of you is pure water). If we look closer, we see that on a cellular/microscopic level the cells are bathing in these liquids like in an ocean and that blood/lymphvessels on this level are pipes/tubes with an open end, so that all the stuff is more or less swimming and floating in the soup. what floats where, is regulated by muscles around the vessels that can contract or relax, making the tubes narrow or wide. if we have a picture of ourselves in mind as an walking ocean we are not wrong.

if we look now what these liquids in different states of mind do, we can see the following: in states that are positive and beneficial, the pipes are opened and blood flows from core to the surface, the skin. we experience this as expansion, and the receptors in the skin feel warmth because the blood from the core of the body is warmer than the one from the surface. perhaps you have realised that in the heat of pleasure your partner has red cheeks, thick lips, huge pupils, warm skin etc. this is because blood is sent to the surface to increase the ability to feel there, vessels are relaxing what feels like inner pressure falls off. women simulate the state by putting color on their cheeks and lips and darken their eyes to look inviting and use all kinds of lotion to get soft skin. if the environment is warm the same thing is happening, because the body doesn't need to take care of getting cooled out and sends the blood to the surface to rather cool itself down.

on the other hand if it is cold, blood flows from the surface to the center (better isolated rooms) to keep the temperature, one gets pale and blue thin lips, it feels like a contraction. the same happens in states of fear, hostile environment or danger because when you are wounded in a fight the loss of blood through wounds in the limbs can be dangerous. the blood is kept to the middle, one gets cold hands and legs, feels tension and starts to shiver like it would be cold. the inner organs necessary for survival are served first. if we speak of a cold person we mean somebody who is not contributing to our pleasure.

So these are the two important directions liquids can flow in the body: to the surface or to the center. one is expansion, the other is contraction.

Tummo now brings the body in a state of constant expansion. which feels good of course and warm. if you go out into a very cold environment, your body will react with contracting to keep warm. even the muscles of your skinhair will contract (what we call goose bumps.)

Through your practice you experienced resistance and friction, the plugged and unclean channels one can clearly feel (which are the psychoactive micromuscletubes around the bloodvessels, here described as nadis or energy channels). you got rid of their subtile tensions through tummopractice, kind of burned them away and opened the whole system.

If you go into the cold they will reappear, because contraction and tension in these subtle structures reappear (a body reflex).