Tummo

It's a way to test the ability to bring the body back into a state of expansion and pleasure. By doing this, one is showing that one is able to do the same, one learned to do with contractions that were caused by states of fear and psychic tension. Burn them away and lead the organism back into a state of expansion and pleasure. (The cooled out blood from the surface will circle back and give your body (Thalamus) the information to keep the heating system on)

It shows for the tibetans one has mastered fear and contraction.

And the ego altogether of course is seen as a (subtle but deep form of) contraction.

"

if we look now what these liquids in different states of mind do, we can see the following: in states that are positive and beneficial, the tubes are opened and blood flows to the surface, the skin. we experience this as expansion, and the receptors in the skin feel warmth because the blood from the core of the body is warmer than the one from the surface. perhaps you have realised that in the heat of pleasure your partner has red cheeks, thick lips, huge pupils, warm skin etc. this is because blood is sent to the surface to increase the ability to feel there, vessels are relaxing what feels like inner pressure disappears. "

Huh, that's fascinating stuff LA. Thank you for these posts

"Huh, that's fascinating stuff LA. Thank you for these posts "

Here to entertain )

It might be helpful to locate oneself from time to time on the map. If you follow this link: www.scribd.com/doc/35504018/Tibetan-Yoga-and-Secret-Doctrines on the upper left corner you can press a downloadbutton to get the book as an PDF.

Look around page 198. There are some stages of progress described. You can see there also how you will experience the elements transform into each other.

There is also another possibility transmitted from mouth to ear for the earlier stages:

Breath in. Point with the right finger at the place in front of your nose from where you feel you took the breath in. Measure with the other hand how many fingers away this place is from the tip of the nose.

16 fingers: the element of space is taken up
12 fingers: the element of air is taken up
8 fingers: the element of heat is taken up
4 fingers: the element of liquidity is taken up
At the nostrils: The solid element is taken up

I recommend to take the breath from 16 fingers, but it will happen naturally anyway with progress (it's is always difficult to manipulate the breath without getting counterreactions).

"Aah, btw:
How much experience of meditation and energetic techniques (qigong, IMA, physical yogas and pranayamas) had you before you began your tummo?

SR"

Not a lot. I did some yoga classes in the style of 3HO (which I liked very, very much) twice a week for maybe 2-3 years and over the years some bodytherapies (bioenergetics, biodynamic, reichian therapy, rebirthing, holotropic breathwork). traditional yoga couldn't fascinate me, I don't know IMA and have only tried quigong on a dilettantish level. I have experience in Soto and in Rinzai Zen. And probably forgotten more than I have known

This is such a gold mine! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, I asked because I've heard from several sources that it is a very good safeguard to already have cleaned the channels somewhat before getting involved in forceful techniques with chakras, vase-breath etc.

About the way you hold your lungs, is it like this video, the guy sitting at the right with the long hair, around 2:09? You wrote also that when you breathe in you lean the neck a bit backwards, and they seem to do just that.

Also thinking about an earlier comment you made about people letting the energy settle when they increase the levels, letting the body adjust - getting itching limbs etc. Should one increase the tummo practice time gradually or what do you mean? Why shouldn't one just go full on?

Again, many thanks!

(edit: should - > shouldn't)

Hi LocoAustriaco,

Thanks for sharing. Ive had a interest in tummo for a while and I'm enjoying practicing the preliminaries. I wonder if its best to keep the breath retention to 1.30min when practicing actual tummo. I imagine the breath retention may naturally become longer. Any comment much appreciated.

Thanks
Andy

Hi guys, we can go further in two directions:

1. Sideeffects. There is a treatment for every unwanted sideffect in psychophysiological development. We can go into that, it would be easy if you sit next to me to do the techniques, but it is complicated and timerobbing to describe them in textformat.

2. Higher stages. I can leave the sideeffects aside and post something about the techniques of the higher stages (that normally have left sideeffects behind) and that some maybe are already in.

Please let me know what you would prefer by pressing "do you find this valuable"

"Yes" button if you are interested in 1. and the "No" button if you are interested in 2.

Both are important,
You could briefly list some side effects and warning signs, and if we encounter them we could elaborate at that time.

Loco,
This morning I did 25 minutes of Tummo starting from 80 second retentions and working my way up to 100 seconds. I did the last round for 120 seconds without much straining and something new took place during the last ten seconds. My whole body started to dissolve and the ground beneath me felt soft. I am sure that I was not losing my consciousness at that point yet. Some side effect perhaps?

"Loco,
This morning I did 25 minutes of Tummo starting from 80 second retentions and working my way up to 100 seconds. I did the last round for 120 seconds without much straining and something new took place during the last ten seconds. My whole body started to dissolve and the ground beneath me felt soft. I am sure that I was not losing my consciousness at that point yet. Some side effect perhaps?
"

Hehe. important! (Too bad I am not tuned into to share). I come back later, I am in a meeting at the moment.

". My whole body started to dissolve and the ground beneath me felt soft. I am sure that I was not losing my consciousness at that point yet. Some side effect perhaps?
"

ah, this sounds like something I've been experiencing lately associated with spontaneous breath-holding in practice. *

seems to also relate to a great simplicity/openness of mind and very elemental experience of material body/environment (as in,material things just being five elements coalescing and flowing in patterns)

* (i had an important learning experience in my early twenties when i tried to use a yogic breath/visualization technique in a willful way... experienced consequences for many years, and so now do not intentionally manipulate the subtle breath: but every now and then practice tends to veer in a subtle energy/alchemy direction spontaneously).

Some trouble I've had in the past, and that I notice now when I try practicing is that my heart starts beating irregularily. I suspect this has to do with my constitution, having a quite long and thin chest. If I tense muscles in a certain way - especially around the solar plexus - the irregularities begin. Then I have to stop, and relax all kinds of chest muscles in order to things to stop.
Would appreciate if you could comment on this, if this is more common than I think, and if there are excercises for adjusting this.

SR

Also,
Do you need to be able to hold the breath for two minutes for any effects to occur?
If I aim for doing one hour sessions with one minute retentions, will this amount to nothing?

"Thanks, I asked because I've heard from several sources that it is a very good safeguard to already have cleaned the channels somewhat before getting involved in forceful techniques with chakras, vase-breath etc.
"

What is normally meant by cleaning the energy system is to remove tensions.

There is no tension in the body, that is not muscular (including deep muscular fibers around guts (peristaltic), organs, vessels). there is no muscle that contracts without a nerval impulse to contract. there is no nerval impulse that doesn't originally come from the brain and the psyche. thats the way it works. and thats why awareness is the golden key to everything.

I don't recommend to loose too much time with preliminaries or other kinds of watering-can-principle-exercises (i will post why later). A tibetologist told me that 90% of the monks in tibetan monasteries don't finish their ngondro (in their whole live).

If you don't like the Tsa Lung, try the following exercise. It is strong, I have seen it in different cultures, from monasteries to therapeutic practices:

Make a tight role out of a blanket with a diameter of minimum of the length of your hand or bigger (with a second blanket). bind it together so that your body can roll on it.

cont.

...
Put it on the ground. Lay down above it, so that it is below your pelvis. your legs are "standing" having a 90 degree angle, feet are on the ground.

If you let your feet walk now the blanketrole can slowly role under your body to the direction of the head, doesn't it? Ok.

1. Put your arms behind your head, let your head fall back as if in surrender. This is the position: www.sciencephoto.com/media/138529/enlarge

2. Open your mouth and start breathing through it. Full capacity, easy, powerful, sensual, gentle taking care of you, we are in tantric practice. Feel.

2a. Make sure your mother in law is not in the room next to you.

3. Make a sound Aaaah like a sigh with every beginning outbreath. (use "kaaah" if you like it tibetan , aaah is more natural). Prolong it over the the full length. Normally you will feel an inhibition to make that sound and let yourself go (thats how you keep up the tension) Let your inhibition go. Let yourself go. Keep breathing fully during the exercise.

3. Start with the role under your gluteus maximus (buttock) massaging the muscle and let it move up slowly, vertebra after vertebra. Feel. Find the places with tension along the spine, stay there a bit and breath into the tension until you can let go of it, simply feel the tension, move up and down a bit with the role, massaging it. Remember to breath and make the sound, relax into it. It's not about control or doing it right. Do what feels good.

4. You can address tensions in the throat by letting the head fall back and pulling the chin in the opposite direction of the chest, so that the muscles that go from chin to chest are stretched. (Your voice will sound deeper and relaxed)

5. After finishing, stay on the ground a bit, relax. then turn to the side first and get up from there. Because your muscles are relaxed first, they can not support you in the first moments afterwards. A bit of a soar might appear later.

With this exercise you can work all the nerval plexi through and clean up all the places along the spine from the pelvis to the head (what is called chakras in sanskrit). It helps to relax the deep muscles along the spine without wearing the more superficial ones out (like some yogic systems do) and makes the liquor move. It is triggering the physiological components of enlightenment. The head falls back to straighten the pharynx and to use the full lung capacity (like done in first aid).

You can influence a bit the effects by the diameter of the role.

If feelings come up, keep breathing. Everything is ok.

With tensions removed, try tummo again afterwards or after a few days of doing this practice (some people feel so well or enlightened, that they don't like to do any other exercises afterwards. that's ok too. try it later)

---

"About the way you hold your lungs, is it like this video, the guy sitting at the right with the long hair, around 2:09? You wrote also that when you breathe in you lean the neck a bit backwards, and they seem to do just that."

I think I don't know that video you are describing

---

"Some trouble I've had in the past, and that I notice now when I try practicing is that my heart starts beating irregularily."

Ah! that might be something medical. You might have it too, while you are sleeping. Some peoples hearts show irregularities when they stop breathing. it is not dramatic but one should see a cardiologist to be on the safe side. it can disturb your sleep when it appears while you are sleeping. changes of heart rate are normal but not stopping.

the video, I forgot the link after all! Here it is:

At 2:09.

I've checked my heart with a specialist, no problems. Only if I do kumbhaka where I adjust the diaphragm in anyway, or, if doing kumbhaka when my life is in stress.

Excellent posts, Thanks!

SR

"Hi LocoAustriaco,

Thanks for sharing. Ive had a interest in tummo for a while and I'm enjoying practicing the preliminaries. I wonder if its best to keep the breath retention to 1.30min when practicing actual tummo. I imagine the breath retention may naturally become longer. Any comment much appreciated.

Thanks
Andy"

Usually it is said that the more energy the body can store, the longer one can hold the breath. the times given are 30sec for a normal person, 60 secs for a healthy person (athlete) and from 90 secs up for a yogi (this is when effects are likely to start in a way that they change the real biochemistry).

My experience is that both is true the breath retention may become longer naturally, but it is also necessary to put some effort in it to get a kind of quantum leap. there is an analogy i read of somebody who hits 2 firestones against each other only one time. one can do this ones whole life without getting fire.

for me it was always easier to get the suffering intense and short, kind of dive through, than having it long and moderate. but there are schools who do tummo softer, it feels a bit more gentle than and the result is more like what Kenneth induces with his MM-techniques, it has a more mental and bright qualitiy than this radical physical transforming.

I don't know if you can melt snow with the soft approach (I didn't try it), but it might not be the most important aspect in times of snowblowers.

"Also,
Do you need to be able to hold the breath for two minutes for any effects to occur?
If I aim for doing one hour sessions with one minute retentions, will this amount to nothing?"

Around 2 minutes something different usually happens, one can get results at 70-90 secs and stay there a bit to acclimatise first and harvest all the fruits.

1 minute is a bit short honestly.

You probably made it faster than in the traditional mentioned 6 weeks. Nobody knows why, but westerners are extremely talented for this practice. some say because desire is the main ingredient of our mind, thats why we were born here. Others say that our mind is so trained in processing informations and concentration (education systems) that it does everything faster, even dying.

The minds 2 deepest forces are sexuality and aggression. You can label it as the drive of replication and survival (biological), eros and thanatos (psychological) or clinging and rejection (buddhists). It always comes down to this two. They are also correlating to the both channels left and right to the central channel. Notice that one (sexuality/eros/clinging) has the tendency to put things together into one, unite, while the other has a tendency to break something apart, into pieces. So they are the elementary forces in nature also. Of course the world is held together by love but there would be no dynamic or movements possible if there was not aggression. Anyway we kind of utilised these two forces by using/contracting the areas of the body associated with them.

So nobody can tell you where on the other side of the river you landed. tummo brought you here. where you landed depends on how you were composed of this two forces.

If you had more sexuality/clinging and uniting forces in you, your experience will be dominated by bliss, pleasure, joy, touchiness, togetherness, we, and if you had more aggression/selfpreservation it will be dominated by calmness, emptiness, clearness, void, silence, centeredness. But the state you are in somehow combines this two ingredients in a very mystical way that can not be well describes, only experienced.

So one of the next things that will happen is that suddenly you might have a kind of development you didn't expect. It can happen that you are entering fields of experience, which show themselves to you. These are the roams of being or 6 lokas. Sometimes before it starts the following happens: You have the feeling you don't have to breath anymore, you feel comfortable without breathing. If that happens have an eye on the watch. stick around in the 2 minutes area.

1. (sexuality/clinging-types) You have probably heard of practices in the SM-scene where people used breathrestriction to increase their ecstacy and and end up choked. Also you might have heard of the macabre sounding cases that people who die or were hung get an erection in the moment of death. All this is pointing to one phenomenon. After all the fireworks and the final calmness you have experienced, there will come another last ecstasy.

It can feel like the last overwhelming huge army of warm expanding autumn light is marching. the mother of all sunsets. Enjoy, but don't get drunk, if you have experience with it do emptiness , disidentify. What comes is much better, clean and pure. It will show itself, don't try to trigger it. Enjoy the friendly warmth but don't cling to it, like someone who lives in a hotel enjoys everything, but doesn't think it's his. Don't fall completely into it, because you can get unconscious. Balance it. Not in, not out.

2. Some people have a more unspectacular version and open the gates to death directly and radical (the aggression-types): to be continued

Thanks for the answers and for making the practice very clear. If I have some success I'll certainly try it out in the snow

best wishes Andy