Tummo

"What kinds of results did you get?"

I could clearly feel that it is a melting of energies, up and down, together. I wouldn't call it red and white, but the description of moonlight and sunset hits the point. It feels like the merging of warm rich erotic sexual arousal and clean pure transparent consciousness. with holding the breath you bring the white energy (tigle) down and the contraction of the root the red up (or better it grows so much that it touches the other). and you hold them together. a kind of atomic core melting starts immediately. when u get to that point: no more suffering is possible. there is also left and right merging. head and butt are coming together and are reconnected in their natural way. I saw something like a very thin wire that starts to glow in bright orange in the middle of the body, not the colours described in the texts. not in the spine like the kundalini, clearly in the middle of the body, the absolute middle of you. when energies are held into each other something funny happens. there appears a third unlimited energy but at the same time the 2 others are a kind of used up or disappear so that there is a kind of vacuum in the middle of the new.
I had the typical dreams of human snakes talking to me, I saw them slipping out of their skin, they are the bouncers between the normal and the higher worlds, who decide who gets in the club. they are friendly ) they are the rulers of all material things and the earth, Thats how the first maybe 10 days were, but I can't talk of all the later mystical experiences, there was something nearly everyday... its all accompanied by a very grounded down to earth feeling. I've probably forgotten the most but what I cant never forget is this 3rd energy, this clear light that is in everything, it is amazing, far beyond my possibilities. its the reason why i am typing this.

(I am describing my experience, it is not identical with what some texts say that will happen)

With the right amount of time for the preparation phase it is possible to get into the melting process before the discomfort can come up, in this case their is no suffering and no sideeffects at all.

Metaphorically you then jump so dynamically into the boat that it glides over the river and you fall out at the the other side of the river and have not seen the waters of suffering at all.
There is similar process while dying. If you see the clear light and take the chance you will not see any bardos at all. They say it's good to train this skill during lifetime (haha)
Later the bodily heat will change (some weeks) into a kind of mystical warmth, which is in essence more a hmmm, yes, bodily or natural love for everything or love itself (@Cohen). but more on this and what to to do later, when one is there.

those posts are really inspiring, thank you.

Traditionally with tummo as a foundation you then engage in the other yogas ( clear light, illusory body ...) and it's supposed to fill all aspects of your life and to be the pinnacle of spiritual experiences, highway to enlightenment.
Reading your journal log, i see that you also engage in The witness and other practices. Is it because there was something missing or you felt that it was not as enlightening as it was supposed to be ?
i'm asking this because i've noticed in a lot of biographic materials that masters of non dual traditions ( dzogchen and mahamudra) were generally still practising at times tummo and related practices, so are these practices not self sufficient ?
eager to read more from you

"those posts are really inspiring, thank you.

Traditionally with tummo as a foundation you then engage in the other yogas ( clear light, illusory body ...) and it's supposed to fill all aspects of your life and to be the pinnacle of spiritual experiences, highway to enlightenment.
Reading your journal log, i see that you also engage in The witness and other practices. Is it because there was something missing or you felt that it was not as enlightening as it was supposed to be ?
i'm asking this because i've noticed in a lot of biographic materials that masters of non dual traditions ( dzogchen and mahamudra) were generally still practising at times tummo and related practices, so are these practices not self sufficient ?
eager to read more from you
"

A linear concept of human development implying the later stages in life are automatically the more developed or better doesn't fit so much into my experience. it would mean that at the end of life you have arrived at the peak of your skills. i don't believe that, i see a lot old people rather getting stiff, anxious and unconscious (also some buddhists), people in their youth and lets say 30-50ies rather blooming and I remember me having more skills in some ways as a child than I have now. It can sometimes develop in a linear way, but it doesn't necessarily. It also depends on coincidental factors from outside like illness, crisis etc So I have a rather circular concept of development where one can find something, stay with it a while then leave it, circle away from it to something else and maybe come back later to it with more experience and a new perspective, initiating a new development.

So only that I grew older it doesn't necessarily mean that I have developed forward (in a sense of "beeing better" or closer to enlightenment).

I've kind of lost a bit the preference for enlightened states to not-enlightened.
...

Concerning Tummo: The time when I practiced was one of the best in my life. I mean you can't do anything wrong feeling strong and sensitive at the same time, having a rich bouquet of spiritual feelings, beeing relaxed, charismatic and attractive, unlimited rich sexual energy/life and girls running after you.
I had times when I made friends with a hand full of people a day just by walking into a bar, the supermarket starting a talk or letting them talk to you, getting involved in their lives, invited for dinner, simply because I had no fear. doubt doesn't exist for the knowing. Its the queen of tantric practices. With time you get so strong that you kind of see through yourself, same like the witness (when its collapsing).
If tummo is a waste of time, it is the best way to waste your time I can imagine (if done right). You live life to the fullest in every sense, every moment is a natural expression of yourself. I can recommend that. live all your unfulfilled wishes and learn from the new experiences you make with them. if you like, or don't. learning or development is not a must only a lust then.

After maybe a year of daily practice I stopped because I felt that nothing could change the pleasure I am experiencing and I felt fully (unchangeable) enlightened. It turned out that after some weeks the system got leaks again. I first lost contact with this clearness, then to the "magic" power but I also enjoyed somehow the going down into samsara, even the suffering is pleasant as it is a nice variety for somemone who knows he is undestructible. I became more normal every day. So it seems I was not enlightened or enlightenment is not an unchanging achievement. ) so we will see, what happens next ... already some years have past since then ...

Here are instruction videos for "secret" TsaLung I've uploaded

NOT WORKING

You can also get a bit of an idea how to do sitting Tummo if you are watching it. (I recommend standing tummo, easier and more fruitful)
(We don't have an internet@right in my country, but consider to buy his book/DVD if you like it. it seems to have made effort to produce it)

---

> AArgh **** they deleted it, does anybody know where i can upload a 160MB video? Anyway i will share it for the moment over bittorrent/isohunt: you should find it as TsaLung.m4v

"Concerning Tummo: The time when I practiced was one of the best in my life. I mean you can't do anything wrong feeling strong and sensitive at the same time, having a rich bouquet of spiritual feelings, beeing relaxed, charismatic and attractive, unlimited rich sexual energy/life and girls running after you.
"


Haha, this is what i am starting to experience.

"
Haha, this is what i am starting to experience.
"

Haha, as the africans say: Eat life with the big spoon!!!

"Here are instruction videos for "secret" TsaLung I've uploaded



You can also get a bit of an idea how to do sitting Tummo if you are watching it. (I recommend standing tummo, easier and more fruitful)
(We don't have an internet@right in my country, but consider to buy his book/DVD if you like it. it seems to have made effort to produce it)"


Can't see it. YouTube says that the video is too long and cannot be played. You may have to upload it on Vimeo.

"
Can't see it. YouTube says that the video is too long and cannot be played. You may have to upload it on Vimeo.
"

Ah, ok I try that now!

For those interested, the book "Qigong Empowerment" by Shou-Yu Liang and Wen-Ching Wu contains a good practical down to earth description of the core practice of tummo in the Buddhist Qigong section.

I have been testing doing Tummo and have found it to be similar to many pranayama exercises that I have previously done, although it seems to generate warmth more efficiently than for example Bhastrika (bellows) paranayama and is not so tiring to practice.

It seems to me that doing Tummo standing makes it more effective and arcing the chest is an important feature, whether it is done standing or sitting. Why is the retention done only after inhaling? Sucking in the stomach feels a bit forced even if the breath is inhaled mostly in the chest area.

When the retention is lengthened over one minute, my stomach starts contracting rhythmically. Should I try to control this movement or let it happen? It is not weakening the control of the bandhas but rather strengthening them. How tightly should one hold moola bandha? Tight in a relaxed manner or super tight?

I wonder if the visualization part has to do with accessing the Tummo off the cushion. If I train my mind to associate the visualization of the rising warm red energy to the actual experience of getting warm, that would train me to get the same energy moving just by using the visualization.

"Ah, ok I try that now!"

Here comes the link for Tsa Lung on vimeo:

vimeo.com/28258180

"
For those interested, the book "Qigong Empowerment" by Shou-Yu Liang and Wen-Ching Wu contains a good practical down to earth description of the core practice of tummo in the Buddhist Qigong section.
"

Thats quite interesting because I just read about the history of tantric practices (David Gordon White from Stanford) and how they kind of permeated all asian religions like lamaism, buddhism, hinduism, chinese and japanese systems. And I thought chinese? what could that be?

"I have been testing doing Tummo and have found it to be similar to many pranayama exercises that I have previously done, although it seems to generate warmth more efficiently than for example Bhastrika (bellows) paranayama and is not so tiring to practice.

It seems to me that doing Tummo standing makes it more effective and arcing the chest is an important feature, whether it is done standing or sitting. Why is the retention done only after inhaling? Sucking in the stomach feels a bit forced even if the breath is inhaled mostly in the chest area."

- Yes if one includes the bandhas into the pranayama it should feel similar. I don't know if they keep the breath retention as long as the tibetans. (I haven't tried Bhastrika Yoga, just googled it.)

- Yes standing developes the emotional vitality of the legs which are important to get a feeling to "be full of life" and vibrant connection to the ground (reality). one maybe knows this feeling from skiing or running. Yes the arcing of the chest is very essential. Inhaled: I think it is probably because one is able to hold the breath longer with some oxygen in the lungs. I tried both and they work both but are not the same for me, one feels more rich and one mor fresh. The sucking in of the stomach is not done as strong as in udiyana bandha where you nearly touch the heart

"When the retention is lengthened over one minute, my stomach starts contracting rhythmically. Should I try to control this movement or let it happen? It is not weakening the control of the bandhas but rather strengthening them. How tightly should one hold moola bandha? Tight in a relaxed manner or super tight?

I wonder if the visualization part has to do with accessing the Tummo off the cushion. If I train my mind to associate the visualization of the rising warm red energy to the actual experience of getting warm, that would train me to get the same energy moving just by using the visualization.

"

- over one minute/contraction: yes that is when the real tummo starts. somebody who has as much experience with yoga as you has it probably easier to stay a bit longer because of gentler reactions. but it depends also on other factors. you just let the contractions happens, just let the body shake off and keep the bandhas. the traditional explanation is that the energy can not leave the body because of the closing of the "gates" and burns now its way through the cloged channels. The contractions are just the beginning, they will stop after some time and open into a void. The moola bandha is super tight. It helps to get through the shaking, stay with it. the rest of the body is allowed to move and shake like a snake, but you will notice that if you don't let it move/control it a bit, the shaking goes more to the inside and somehow targets your deepest soul. it's less excessive but very, very intense, personal and deeply touching the innermost parts. it just flows into everywhere, where one thought he could hide his whole life and brings all kinds of rainbow coloured blessings.

- the traditional visualisation is quite a bit complicated. it includes a tibetan letter, a flame, falling drops and all this. do you mean this visualisation?

By the way: if you do it while having an orgasm a firework of bright lightning joy will start off and what the boxers call the second wind will appear immediately ) (seems to be a kind of biological compensation for the girls, because one does not ejaculate in this case).

I know that nobody is interested in these things, I just posted it for myself.

EDIT: As Antero said the right arc of the chest is important, stay a bit upright/proud/sternum up, when you pull in the belly

"By the way: if you do it while having an orgasm a firework of bright lightning joy will start off and what the boxers call the second wind will appear immediately ) (seems to be a kind of biological compensation for the girls, because one does not ejaculate in this case).

I know that nobody is interested in these things, I just posted it for myself."

It is actually very interesting

"It is actually very interesting "

The tibetan tradition says that the buddha gave this teaching only to his most talented students and kings

they then went on to what could be translated as "(bodily) union"-exercises quickly afterwards, the fastest way to full enlightenment, not wasting any time.
the beginning exercise goes like this: maybe you have seen tibetan thangkas with 2 buddhas sitting in union. thats the position, perceive/visualise "her"/"him" as deity/dakini/female buddha or simply as perfect, put your mouths on each other like kissing and keep them sealed. when she/he exhales you inhale her/his breath, when you exhale she/he inhales your breath. keep on doing this. feels a bit like you don't have to breath anymore because she/he is moving your lungs, effortless, oceanic.
visualise both a stream of energy when you f.e. exhale, from your lips to her lips through her spine to the pelvis to your pelvis-spine to your lips. (i read in a text of the female translator of kalu rinpoche that he always tried to convince her to do this exercises with him, so it seems that motivation for practice comes by itself when one reaches the highest teachings )) at least for one)

but we are shortcutting now the shortcut of the shortcut

Keep a light tonus of 25% of the maximum contraction in the musculus transversus abdominis (lower abdomen, between belly button and pelvic bone, deep layer) whatever you do in daily life. When you stand up and put your weight forward on the toes you can feel that this muscle is activated autonomously by your body to gain stability (it feels a bit "under the belly"). this is the exact right amount of tonus to keep. Should feel natural and effortless. Also pull in the belly while doing the Tummo to avoid misguiding the "energy"(=awareness).

..tbc..

If you look into human anatomy you can clearly see that there is no such thing as deep bellybreathing while you are standing or acting during everyday life. it is absolutely unphysiological. If you teach your body artificially to keep the deep bellybreathing during daily life, your abdominal muscles can not carry their part of your weight and protect your spine. this means the backmuscles have to carry all the weight and will become stiffer. they then can not elastically support your breath movement with expansion and contraction, massaging the whole system of spine, liquor, brain. because of this stiffness the breath will go even further forward (no elasticity/space in the back) into the direction of the belly (ironically one can experience this as a success because you then have more space to breath again). with time back problems may appear and the inner organs have the tendency to fall more and more forward. The problem is not not only that is doesn't look so good , but it costs a lot of energy, it is not healthy and a hindrance for developing the true full breath. if you are experiencing a tuff lack of energy or depression after starting spiritual practices this can be a possible cause. try if it gets better, when you restrengthen your abdominal muscles via the usual exercises and keep a tonus of 25% during activities. it should work quickly within days if this was the problem. I know that for most people this wrong belly breathing feels like a progress because it is more comfortable than the fast, short, flat breathing that is usual in our society. but it is not.

tbc ...

...
the Indians didn't bring up the ideology of the "always deep belly breathing". when buddhism came to china and japan into a culture in which control and calmness was highest priority they put the emphasis on it and poisoned the spiritual traditions with it. they misused the skill to calm down the mind to suppress emotions, free self-expression and a natural sexuality. ("zen-disease": stiff spine results in a rigid character, that then has to be calmed down constantly with forward belly breathing - vicious circle).

There is a healthy way to breath freely without "forward belly breathing":

The right direction is more down into the pelvis. if your pelvic muscles become free and relaxed over time, your breath will touch a spot at the bottom, which is very lustful when you breath in. of course it is a kind of sexual feeling but sexual or not, don't get hysteric. it is a very nice and natural pleasant sensual feeling at the end of every inbreath. a part of the breath goes also into the sides (flanks) and into the back. (don't push the breath down, it will go there by itself if you do what is necessary.)
....tbc...

Nearly every orthopedist or physiotherapist in the world will tell you to keep a muscletonus in the abdomen and train your abdominal core. But the problem is most people have too much tensions in the pelvis (sexual fears and fears to let go) to be able to get the full capacity of breath using the room down there. The old Indians where right when they kept the tonus in the belly and waited for the release of the inner pelvic muscles through training (tummo), stretching/yoga and psychological/spiritual development.

Normal belly breathing: In deep states of rest like when lying down or sleeping it is of course physiological and healthy to breath deeply into the belly and give up all tonus, because you have no weight to carry and you do not need support. but when you stand up and try to rescue the calmness into everyday life via this wrong breathing technique all kinds of problems from depression to back pain can appear and i won't tell you what it does to your right thalamus. It is also normal to have some belly breathing immediately after releasing the held breath (in tummo-training), cause the body will open all blockages and give up all tensions (roof of mouth, throat, chest, diaphragm, belly, back, bottom of pelvis) to get full breath-capacity and enough Oxygen for the brain.

I say all this here because in some versions of tummo the vase-breathing is described as putting the air in the belly and pushing downward. This won't work in this simpleness and from a modern perspective encourages the wrong breathing pattern after practice. it will result in various unwanted side effects, that a lot of people are afraid of and make them drop out before even getting a taste of the power of the practice. (This minimal push down effect they are looking for is what I described above as touching a spot of lust in the pelvis and will appear naturally and quickly if one doesn't disturb the breath.)

Thanks a lot, Loco, for these detailed explanations. From what I can tell, the practice of tummo is very similar to what Hatha Yoga calls Shakti Chalani Mudra. No wander, the Hatha Yoga tradition of the Nath Sampradaya is intimatly connect with the Maha Siddhas.

There are several descriptions of Shakti Chalani Mudra in the yoga shatras, but the idea is always to unite prana (upward flowing energy between vishudhi and manipur) and apana (down flowing energy between muladhara and manipur) in samana (energy around manipur). As a result, the two vayus (prana and apana) united by Mahabandha generate intense heat that suffocated the sleeping shakti kundalini who has no other choice but to awaken and rise within the sushumna nadi like a fierce cobra.

My strongest experience with it was more than a year ago, after a meeting with Kenneth at his place. Back in my hotel room in NYC, I felt a strong chakra activity and decided to integrate them in my field of awareness. I then decided to unite prana and apana in the navel, holding the breath with mulabandha. I then dropped the heat on muladhara chakra. With a short exhale, I then shot the energy along the spine above the crow chakra.

What happened then is the the energy came back to muladhara. I then felt a warm liquid rising up along the spine. When it reached the head space it felt like cosmic orgasm going on an on for 15 or 20 minutes. My body was shaking like a leaf. I then moved the energy to the heart and felt a sense of unconditional love. It then merged with emptiness and my body felt transparent, merging with the environment. The sense of self dissolved into this blissful all pervading stillness.

Last night, I experienced the same results (emptiness and bliss), integrating the awakreness of all chakras into the natural state (Mahamudra).