Tummo

Hi, I get a lot of private messages concerning Tummo, so I am gonna answer some here:

@Dharmandy: The exercises in the book "Awakening the sacred body" all together shall reduce sideeffects, the book does not explain how to reduce specific symptoms. you will not find such explanations written down. just in this thread.

@mumuwu,post 223: these are exercises called trul khor and are additional to the core exercises. as one can see some of them are very, very unhealthy and i would recommend not to do them. they didn't exist in the original indian system from which the tibetans have taken the inner heat practice and were added with all the the other cultural stuff to keep the power in the monasteries.

@the highest attainments in tummo are in the hands of very science oriented europeans and some of my friends broke several world records by using the technique and show attainments that have not been seen in tibet at all. the results are surprising but it has nothing to do with magic.

@more advanced yogis show less sideffects but it seems it takes the same time for them, when it comes to breathretention and creating heat.
Kenneth f.e. didn't show any signs of shaking or inner pressure, just euphoria, when we tried it. he said the silence afterwards is probably the second jhana.

@ When we had a lot of fun making abarbecue in the underwear on the rooftopterrace of the 6othompson during the snowstorm in manhattan, nobody showed signs of shivering (just the waitress who served the caipirinhas, poor girl had a flue the next day), but it seems that the guys who used the violent method created more heat, than the ones with the gentle method. they got problems when it came to drink a lot of the half frozen beer and got the cold inside them so if your goal is enlightenment use the gentle, if you want to melt snow go from time to time to the violent to make fast progress

@ start the training with hot/cold showers to train the muscles within the bloodvessels. relax. let your body learn that the cold is not dangerous. continue then with cold showers and then with going outside into the snow. stinging and pressure is ok, but

!!! avoid at all costs the following feeling if you are in the snow: after stinging, spreading heat and tingling, numbness in fingers and toes or lifelessness sets in, they feel like stone, not part of your body anymore. you will loose them if you don't get warm as fast as you can now, run!!!

Hi Loco, ok when you said that

"The sequence in that phenomena for the beginner will arise in the body is this:

Warmth - Shaking - Silence"

Question 1. How many times did you do this meditation before the shaking stopped?

"Hi Loco, ok when you said that

"The sequence in that phenomena for the beginner will arise in the body is this:

Warmth - Shaking - Silence"

Question 1. How many times did you do this meditation before the shaking stopped?

"

Hi AdvaitaAdvaita,

Ah, ok. Some people on this forum mentioned that they did not experience this sequences at all, it seems to me that most of them were more experienced yogis. I myself was not experienced when I learned tummo and felt it very clearly and unmistakable.

I guess the shaking like a fish probably stayed for the first half hour, if the body was "cold" as we say (somebody who is not practicing tummo is called a "cold fish" )) and untrained and the mind is in an absolute average-guy-from the-street-mode. the frequency of the "eruptions" goes down then in my case the next days and becomes smoother, more like vibrations in and/or outside of the body and later become very pleasant pulsations that might stay during sleep and carry a kind of consciousness during deepsleep. there is a warmth and consciousness in the skin, which for many feels "thicker, like an elephants" than before. (there is some scientific evidence now that the fat under the skin transforms biochemically).
If i do the tsa lung exercises to warm up its a bit softer and i can clearly feel a tunnel of vibrations around me especially around the head&shoulders, the vibrations lead in the end into a kind of awareness.

i am pretty sure that after 6 weeks of everyday practice (1h) the shaking disappeared because that was when i started to perceive energies in a concrete way and they were very gentle. I hope i remember it correct. but on the other hand: why should it be a problem if it is a bit different in any individual.

"Cheers.

There are also plenty of vids of people doing Maha Bandha. The only difference seems to be that in Tummo you do longer retentions

<span>Ex. ;"

yes, it's a variation of maha bandha or more exactly the exercise that was also called "the five fires". if you do tummo for a long time, people become "immune" against heat too, as you can see on wims website.
this was known in india and they made 4 fires around/close and one above the yogi to show the skill. i heard that wim hof has this attainment and will run a halfmarathon in 60 degrees celsius without drinking a drop. for those who have an idea, it is clear that everybody will die under these circumstances no matter how ironman he is. it is physically impossible. but, we will see...

Thank you, LA, when you say that' the vibrations lead in the end into a kind of awareness.'
Can you please expand on this?

Also how has this meditation affected your aversions and desires? Your tendencies, conditionings, proclivities and so on?

Thanks for this.
I dont get that sequence, but after 60 secs or so I get a continuous and increasing shaking, until i cant hold my breath anymore (100secs) I dont get the silence bit. Sometimes if i push it a couple more seconds it feels like something is about to snap, but can never hold it more than that. Ive been doing 30 min tummo evrry day for about 4 weeks for the record, and I'm definitely a very Unexperienced yogi.

"@the highest attainments in tummo are in the hands of very science oriented europeans and some of my friends broke several world records by using the technique and show attainments that have not been seen in tibet at all."

LocoA,
Care to elaborate? What are the attainments? Are you speaking about just mundane results (dealing with coldes) or spiritual attainments?

@advaitaadvaita: Vibrations become more refined and are experienced after some time as a pulsing field which later transforms into a silent field of knowing.
In the beginning the Ego explodes and shows all it's beauty - kind of a blooming flower, just like in SelfInquiry, but because of the body involvement there is more vitality in the sense of increase of sexual/power/angency drive and a lustful relation to the body and the body of others. When the ego has lived to its fullest for some time and done everything it always wanted, it is then ready to die. The practice made me love live in a pretty biological sense and I was not aware of aversions, I felt just to vital.

@SanRaal: I meant meassurable physical attainments (but it can not really be seperated from spiritual ones. There is no dualism, spiritualism is just a place to hide )

@privatemesssage: if the practice leads to enlightenment, depends on how you define enlightenment and which part of the continuum you are adressing.

It didn't lead to the 8th stage in my case, into which I was bombed through Kenneths guiding within one session. But honestly nothing lead to this, I have never experienced this 8th stage before. But also I am not sure if everybody would say that it is enlightenment. There seem to be a lot of different definitions of enlightenment. Some people are in a solid first jhana and call it an enlightenment.

"@advaitaadvaita: Vibrations become more refined and are experienced after some time as a pulsing field which later transforms into a silent field of knowing.
In the beginning the Ego explodes and shows all it's beauty - kind of a blooming flower, just like in SelfInquiry, but because of the body involvement there is more vitality in the sense of increase of sexual/power/angency drive and a lustful relation to the body and the body of others. When the ego has lived to its fullest for some time and done everything it always wanted, it is then ready to die. The practice made me love live in a pretty biological sense and I was not aware of aversions, I felt just to vital.

@SanRaal: I meant meassurable physical attainments (but it can not really be seperated from spiritual ones. There is no dualism, spiritualism is just a place to hide )

@privatemesssage: if the practice leads to enlightenment, depends on how you define enlightenment and which part of the continuum you are adressing.

It didn't lead to the 8th stage in my case, into which I was bombed through Kenneths guiding within one session. But honestly nothing lead to this, I have never experienced this 8th stage before. But also I am not sure if everybody would say that it is enlightenment. There seem to be a lot of different definitions of enlightenment. Some people are in a solid first jhana and call it an enlightenment.
"


When you say that
"but because of the body involvement there is more vitality in the sense of increase of sexual/power/angency drive and a lustful relation to the body and the body of others"

Q. So are you saying that there is a biolological increase of a " sexual drive' (physical desire) as a result of your tummo practice? Is this correct?

"
When you say that
"but because of the body involvement there is more vitality in the sense of increase of sexual/power/angency drive and a lustful relation to the body and the body of others"

Q. So are you saying that there is a biolological increase of a " sexual drive' (physical desire) as a result of your tummo practice? Is this correct?



"

Yes, I remember that effect especially in the beginning weeks of the practice. it was quite intense, before the body got used to the new level of energy. it is not probable for beginners to guide the complete energy into the central channel.
There is a handful of studies showing the same result for exercising only the pelvic muscles (without the rest of tummo). it increases sex drive, potency, prolongs intercourse, makes female orgasm easier and stronger and has an antidepressive effect. so i guess one can find the reason for the increase of drives in this part of the tummo-exercise.

Thanks so much Loco for writing down your experiences and detailed instructions with Tummo

I'm curious if you think that the Vajra Pose from the Dzogchen Rushen would be a good preliminary for tummo? I'm guessing that the posture is meant to open up the channels of the arms, body, and legs.

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Loco, a couple questions for you:

1 - how important is to keep my attention on any of the spots you mentioned while you hold your breath?

2 - in post 39. Tummo Instruction - part diaphram, you say "Train [breath retention] it a while to find out how it opens the heart after releasing it. Notice also the joy. - We will use this movement to transport "energy" from the root to the heart, cultivating the wild animallike power."

When is that root-to-heart energy movement used again exactly?

Thank you very much

Hey all, there will be a Tummo Retreat in Switcherland in June 21 - 24 run by Tulku Lobsang:

www.tulkulamalobsang.org/index.php?page=tourplan&id=183

I've booked my spot already!

"Thanks so much Loco for writing down your experiences and detailed instructions with Tummo

I'm curious if you think that the Vajra Pose from the Dzogchen Rushen would be a good preliminary for tummo? I'm guessing that the posture is meant to open up the channels of the arms, body, and legs.

&lt;span&gt; htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/rrj6u0e0w15w64...0ad6.jpg</span> ;"

Yeah, try it out, it seems quite similar like the one in which it is done normally.

"Loco, a couple questions for you:

1 - how important is to keep my attention on any of the spots you mentioned while you hold your breath?

2 - in post 39. Tummo Instruction - part diaphram, you say "Train [breath retention] it a while to find out how it opens the heart after releasing it. Notice also the joy. - We will use this movement to transport "energy" from the root to the heart, cultivating the wild animallike power."

When is that root-to-heart energy movement used again exactly?

Thank you very much
"

1- traditionally the spot 4 fingers below the navel is said to be related to the element of heat/fire while the other spots are other elements. in my experience it creates a kind of cleanness to concentrate on it (probably because it is identical with the physical balance point of the body, where all gravity forces extinguish each other). once the connection between head and pelvis is established in my case/experience nothing matters anymore. everything is just perfect and you cant really do anything wrong anymore. you are free of rules in a lot of senses.

2 - simultaneously with the closing of the root chakra or a bit later. you can also just pull in the lower belly a bit if you find it to difficult.

3 - @ lobsang: I hope he is still teaching the whole thing, otherwise Wim Hof from the netherlands would be an alternative. He seems to bring the fastest results.

Hi Loco,
Continuing with our conversation from before, I'd like to ask a question about willfulness and anger. After obtaining technical fourth path last year I became very, very calm, mindful, considerate, loving and compassionate toward others as there was very little in way of 'personal need' that needed fulfillment in personal transactions, and I was there for others so to speak. Now that I am practicing tummo I notice that I have become very, very willful in a very strong almost uninhibited way. I literally feel fearless without disregard for outcomes. It is wreaking havoc with my marriage and my wife is disturbed that I have changed so radically. I am no longer observing the inhibitory boundaries that glued us emotionally together. They seem unreal and dishonest to me now. Was wondering if you may have any suggestions on how to manage this new and very powerful energy.
ta, Paul

If I may throw in a couple pennies, because I've seen this kind of **** happen: I have done energy work and worked in spirit possession traditions where you feel like you could walk through walls from the energy and power you get. You feel ******* fearless and wild. Some people really wreck their lives because they don't have the maturity to deal with it. You know what? Take a cold shower. You are still 100% responsible for your actions. I don't care if you are doing tummo, kundalini yoga, or high on meth, or possessed by fire spirits. I don't even care if there's no "you" there. YOU, the man called Cartago, are responsible for behaving appropriately and not harming others.Take that responsibility and make it a priority. Especially if you are awakened, you have an even greater responsibility, in my book, for recognizing your own stuff and doing no harm to others. There's no excuse for bad behavior, even less the more supposed "wisdom" and "power" you have.

/maternal scolding

And I would also love to know what the tummo strategy is for grounding, cooling and balancing, because that's really important in a lot of energy practices. You get too much energy raised, and you get unbalanced. A lot of heat may be good for drying sheets, but it's not good for navigating life in a peaceful way or maintaining a healthy body and mind. Of course one short term strategy is to stop practicing. In an emergency an accupuncturist can bring down the energy and balance your system, too.

What she said, coupled with this:

Why pursue a practice that is so clearly destructive?

This is a huge downside of testosterone-based practice (by which I mean the pursuit of meditative attainments or experiences in a competitive manner). Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

Hey Cartago,

Loco mentioned a few things in previous posts that would help grounding that energy.

Of course stopping the energy practice is the first thing you do.
Cold shower.
Eat heavy foods (meat and root vegetables).
Do grounding exercises (google grounding qigong and things like that)
Visualize energy leaving your feet to the ground.
And keep it together, use your arahat super powers and don't be a t i t!

keep us updated!

oh and check the AYP (advanced yoga practices) forum, they have a lot of people talking about kundaliny sindrome and remedies

also check Loco's posts 201 and following few posts (page 11) in this thread (tummo).

Thanks for digging that up Andy. Good to learn to drive a car, but better if someone also shows you how the brakes work!!

Giragirasol: thank you for your advice, experience and the 'redirecting' maternal scolding. Much appreciated.
Chris: I wasn't aware that tummo was a testosterone related practice, nor that it is a competition. I've just been exploring the process for development. I completely agree with you that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it and failing to find a grounding strategy, I shall give it up. I have already begun a milder practice. Physically I've never been very strong and have had trouble with energy on the lethargy side most of my life. So, this explosion of energy has been a real surprise. I certainly never intended to use it as a weapon. Thanks for your input.
Andy: Greatly appreciate your suggestions and guidance to previous posts. I hope not to be a '***' in the future.

Let us know what you do and if things improve over the next days. You will not lose access to that energy or any skills by taking a break from it and cooling it down. You just need to learn to manage it so it's not out of control. Once the energy is "waking up" it's often better to go more slowly and gently than push things. You'll learn where your balance is and how to maintain yourself by gentle experimenting.