Tummo

Hi giragirasol,
Thanks so much for your support. Yes, I have been trying to find the balance. Standing tummo is far too violent for me and so switched to sitting and have eased off on the length of time I hold the breath. Was delighted to hear from Andy and visualizing energy draining through the feet. I found this morning that simply placing awareness in the legs and feet pulled energy out of the torso and head space producing a cool and loving sensation in a tricky family situation. Much gratitude. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Paul

Paul, I'm sorry to have come across quite so negatively. I definitely have an aversion to the kind of thing that I was referring to because it distorts the whole idea of practice. Please just be careful as you experiment and try not to cause anyone harm, especially yourself.

Metta

Do you still want me to answer your question?

Loco, have you practiced any of the other yogas of naropa?

cheers

Loco,
Thank you very much, but I think with all the help and consideration I'm good for now. If anything else comes up I'm happy to share what I find. Chris, no harm done. I understand your concern. Thanks for your support.
Paul

funny and informative


David Deida - Spirit Sex Love - Part 1 of 12

Hey all,

so I came back a couple of days ago from the tummo retreat with tulku lobsang that we mentioned before. We basically learned what Loco taught us, plus some trul-khor movements (what this guy does ) and some visualizations.

Still the approach that loco shared with us (get passed the waves of suffering while holding you breath) makes it all way more fun and more intense.

A couple of things that I found helpful are:

the little jumps that happen in the video at 3.30 and the exhalations + shaking of the shouldrs that happen right after. When doing the jumps make sure that the point of contact with the flor is not only the sitting bones, but include the thighs and calfs all together at the same time, or you'll break your back. Also, when you hit the flore imagina that the fire in your navel chakra blows out. Fun eh?


It was a pitty that things didn't blow since I was looking forwards to getting all this going properly and having the guidance of Tulku Lama, who is a great and fun dude who knows his ****!


He taught tummo without empowerments and without having us doing ngondro for 15 years because he feels that we need the chance to taste what it's all about. And then if we really want to go for it then maybe we should do the whole thing (he said). Sometimes he went into interesting talk (consort practice) but didn't go into much detail - it'd be very interesting to learn about that (any recommendations??)

I definetely recommend you guys do it because it is fun - but having the instructions from Loco, the tsa lung video and some dedication I think you can do just as fine.

When I am holding my breath for Tummo, every now and then, it feels like a little bit of air enters in through my nostrils. Is it okay to pinch my nose to prevent this?

Hi guys, This is my second winter spent doing Tummo retreat (is now pretty cold here downunder), just happened across this forum, fantastic discussion and details have been great help for me thanks Loco and others.

Loco am not totally clear on the heat generation process. Can you tell me:
1. Is it that through the tummo practice your body temperature raises a certain amount and will stay like that? or;
2. You only generate heat and stay warm during the weeks, months you are doing daily practice? or;
3. You only stay warm for the time eg hour or two you are doing the actually practice? (this is in my case)

If number 1 is possible then must it be done by exposure to cold and so you learn to toughen up which looks like the case with the iceman practices?

See what I am hoping is to avoid this practicing in the cold thing with not too many clothes on etc as I am a bit of a whoss

Hi everyone.

As a westerner having spent more than 12 years under the past masters who came out of Tibet to India and Nepal when I was there in the early 70s, learning the things talked about in this thread i can sympathize with any frustration and confusion. I have spent a little time with Tulku Lobsang also. These teachings are just about gone till the next dispensation which will not be in this age i'm afraid. Therefore any effort we make now with proper motivation and guidance will be of immense benefit the texts say. And I find it refreshing that I see so many here are interested in this deeply profound path.

It is my humble opinion, the full path of Tsa Lung, in addition to being the profound quick path to enlightenment, that problems arise because the real reason for doing tummo in the first place is to work up to the higher Tantras - which if genuine will lead to the vow of never emitting semen (and all kinds of other related tantic vows) unless you can pull it back in, in the case of men, and the ability in both men and women to reabsorb with skillful means and with women to not get pregnant even if having an inexperienced consort. Very few students are interested in hearing this and much much fewer teachers have perfected it. Therefore the mentioning of the profound inexpressible bliss of the constant wave of better and far greater orgasmic pulsing throughout your non dualistic true nature is avoided at all costs by those who havent much practice. But for the easterner or workshop person it is relatively easy to present enough knowledge to convince even the better disciples that they have got it all together but it is too sacred a teaching for you and are not ready for it.

Despite all this these teachings are still practiced thankfully and may still be available so good luck!

Ngawang (Ron).

I would just like to reiterate, add some traditional vajrayana context around this whole thread. As Ngawang (see above - he is my partner and teacher of the path of Tsa Lung) has made clear to me in the past that one of the reasons for doing some sort of Ngondro or preliminary practices is to prove to the teacher that you have some grounding in the view and right motivation and are preserving enough in the path and therefore ready for the higher practices. ie wanting to undertake Tsa Lung practices is not some passing fad or hobby or you just want to improve your sex life . As you can see with the immense power developed that people have reported here from undergoing the practices it has potential to be abused or confused when not combined with right motivation & view of emptiness & appearance. Therefore it is always advised to check & be very honest with oneself. Am I doing these practices so I can impress my friends or become famous, so I can become charismatic and accumulate a whole lot of money etc or with the ultimate aspiration to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all, ok lets have some fun on the way and a good sex life but have this aspiration underlying everything we do.

In regards to right view please listen to these fantastic teachings by Dzongsar Kyenste Rinpoche - titled Fundamental Buddhist View given in Russia see here www.khyentserecordings.org/namo/Podcasts.html . It'll knock your socks off, he has an extremely wisdom oriented skillful way of teaching.


All best
Kim

In regards to real accomplishments on the path, well the fruits of meditation are said to be bliss, clarity and not thought (or non conceptualisation). And ultimately be free from the "8 worldly winds" which is a good place to measure ones own development from see here below ref Rigpa wiki:

8 worldly preoccupations are where all one's actions are governed by:

hope for happiness and fear of suffering,
hope for fame and fear of insignificance,
hope for praise and fear of blame,
hope for gain and fear of loss;

basically attachment and aversion.

"Loco, have you practiced any of the other yogas of naropa?

cheers"

Hi! yep, I am just returning from my yearly phowa-retreat and am still bleeding ...

@ john ferguson: little bit is ok, its more important that you have the feeling that both lungs are equally filled

@ it feels as if the warmth is stored somewhere in the body and it creates a reservoir of energy/vibes. it stays some weeks like this and as long as the battery is recharged the body from time to time does the exercise by itself and recharges, pretty addictive. biologically my body temperature is only 0,5 degrees higher than normal but it doesn't decline when i am the snow. the felt difference is more for myself and for others, people who are standing one meter in front of me say they can feel a pleasant somehow attractive warmth coming from me. was this your question?

"@ it feels as if the warmth is stored somewhere in the body and it creates a reservoir of energy/vibes. it stays some weeks like this and as long as the battery is recharged the body from time to time does the exercise by itself and recharges, pretty addictive. biologically my body temperature is only 0,5 degrees higher than normal but it doesn't decline when i am the snow. the felt difference is more for myself and for others, people who are standing one meter in front of me say they can feel a pleasant somehow attractive warmth coming from me. was this your question?"

Thanks Loco it is useful. Sorry for bombardment of questions, is really good to find you here. Have some more:

1.Do you think it important to not wear warm clothes, have hot baths or be near heat etc for the period one is doing the practice, to develop this warmth, as is advised in the traditional teachings?

2. Do you now find some environments too hot? Or does this warmth somehow not kick in when it is hot?

3. About the breathing - I can hold my breath for over 1min 30 secs only when I spend at least 30 secs just doing some deep slow breathing beforehand. Is it the ultimate aim to get to the point where we can do a series of vase breaths (with no break in between each one) each holding for 1 and a half minutes?

"Thanks Loco it is useful. Sorry for bombardment of questions, is really good to find you here. Have some more:
"

you are welcome.
1. No. It wasn't in my case. The only sayings that were true for me were to avoid direct sun at the head (i have my hair cut very short) and not to practice if I had problems with the stomach (after drinking etc.)

But there is a tendency of enlightened people to run around half naked:-) I mean Dilgo and a lot of high lamas tought nearly always half naked and the AFpeople seem to have the same tendencies avoiding underwear and running around barefoot etc.)

2. It doesn't really feel like normal heat. In the beginning phase it happens that one accidentally deregulates ones bloodpressure and gets normal/biological/bodily heat (the sign is that the head also gets very hot and feverish, the mood crumpy-bad practice) but with development this transforms into a transcendental heat, which feels different and doesn't interact with physical heat from outside so much. it has more a taste of love and wellbeeing. some people do experience a spark of it before orgasm or after running a longer distance.

3. not the ultimate aim but it will happen that one can hold ones breath nearly forever and does it during everydaylife because its very very pleasant to accumulate all that energy in the body.

Hm, I think I get a feeling where you are:

Try to hyperventilate a minute before you do the exercise. let go of control in that phase, get exstatic. open mouth, breath down fully into the genitals and breath out through the top of the head, make a sound like sighing a releasing Aaaaaah on th outbreath. once you established that circle of air: be aware now of the world from the middle of your open heart, while the breathing continues selfactuating. Then do the practice.

I'm new to this thread and would like to try this practice. I've done qi gong for years with generally modest results. Nice to find an energy practice that might really work. Loco, I'm printing out yr instructions which I cut and pasted into a doc that runs to 26 pages. So, thanks!

You mentioned in the beginning of the thread you were involved in researching the medical effects of tummo. What were the findings?

"It is my humble opinion, the full path of Tsa Lung, in addition to being the profound quick path to enlightenment, that problems arise because the real reason for doing tummo in the first place is to work up to the higher Tantras - which if genuine will lead to the vow of never emitting semen (and all kinds of other related tantic vows) unless you can pull it back in, in the case of men, and the ability in both men and women to reabsorb with skillful means and with women to not get pregnant even if having an inexperienced consort. "

Hi Ron, btw it seems that in this interpretation and in some comments holding back the ejaculate appears as something sophisticated or very skillful. I always asked myself why. Just contract in the moment of orgasm and pull the belly in a bit like in tummo and the whole thing implodes into a waves of staying bliss, instead of exploding into relaxation. easy to try, easy to master and becomes more and more effortless every time.

"You mentioned in the beginning of the thread you were involved in researching the medical effects of tummo. What were the findings?"

The most surprising findings are IMHO that tummo guys have a higher percentage of brown fat (like toddlers) This is really unbelieveable. Also the change of bodytemperature up to 8 degrees in the fingers of one monks in the 80ies is far beyond exspectations, because proteins are denaturating in this heat (this one was never repeated.)

"Hi Ron, btw it seems that in this interpretation and in some comments holding back the ejaculate appears as something sophisticated or very skillful. I always asked myself why. Just contract in the moment of orgasm and pull the belly in a bit like in tummo and the whole thing implodes into a waves of staying bliss, instead of exploding into relaxation. easy to try, easy to master and becomes more and more effortless every time."

Yea its good isnt it to be able to come as much as you want for as long as you want whenever you want. but its also very exciting to reverse ejaculate inwardly a womens come and even her menstrual blood and other hormones and other wonderful things she may have. i have even gotten drunk while training in India to suck up beer, also various herbs & milk etc into the bladder. my girlfriend also did this. of course you have to know how and where to circulate all this and use the energy in a beneficial way for beings.

I'm wondering if there would be interest in a new thread specifically for sharing Tummo practice notes? Are there enough people doing this?

I did the preliminary practice for about 10 days. I was able to hold my breath comfortably for 90 seconds, and up to 2 minutes. I can lightly contract the perineum and release at a rate of about 1-2x/sec.

I started attempting standing Tummo yesterday. Putting it all together was surprisingly difficult, coordination-wise. I had trouble maintaining the clench, and tended to tighten the abdomen too much. All the effort seemed to make holding the breath much more difficult. I made it about 30 seconds the first time. The 2nd time, 45 seconds, but I finished by rolling on the floor with abdominal discomfort. This was relieved by a trip to the lavatory. I did have unusually high energy the rest of the day.

Today was a little better. My first try was 1 minute. I think the coordination was getting better. It had a similar effect of pressure on the intestines, but with much less discomfort. I then spent about 15 minutes breathing while patting, rubbing, and pressing my abdominal area. "Moving the qi." Also did some simple qi gong, just cuz I felt like it. In all, I did 4 passes in about 45 minutes, the last was 90 seconds.

Still having trouble maintaining the clench throughout. Wondering if I should keep practicing this way to get better, or return to preliminary practices until I can do it right.

"I'm wondering if there would be interest in a new thread specifically for sharing Tummo practice notes? Are there enough people doing this? "

Yeah man why not. I'm in. What kind of 'notes' do you have in mind? Like a journal thing?

"Yeah man why not. I'm in. What kind of 'notes' do you have in mind? Like a journal thing?"

I was thinking of a journal thing, but maybe open to all rather than the usual personal journal. Just a way to extend the conversation about practice details without diluting this thread, which is mainly instructional. Maybe I'll paste my entry above into a new thread and see if it flies. Thanks Andy.

"Hi! yep, I am just returning from my yearly phowa-retreat and am still bleeding ..."

Loco, would you be up to sharing instructions for some (or all!) of the other yogas of naropa? You did such an awesome job with Tummo and having specific instructions for the other yogas would be super great.

after you became the buddha, the buddha has to become you.

embodiment is the core of enlightenment.

The emptinessaspect of enlightenment is often misinterpreted as enlightenement itself and as far as I know only the tibetans have pointed out that there are a lot more steps to go after the no-self, the full embodiment has to take place.

why? I found that pretty explanatory: