Tummo

"... I think the longer you do it, the more 'stuff' you can burn through ..."

Cartago - can you clarify what you mean by "stuff you can burn through"?

"...Tummo has trained my body as though I am hill running and more. I ran the hill comfortably without fear or concern or need for rest. ...I was stunned at what happened..."

Do you know what Gang Gyok is?

Tulku Lobsang is giving a workshop of that this week near Vienna. Is that worth learning? what have you experienced with it? Thanks

Oh, and apparently he's making a DVD about it!

Hi Loco,
Good to hear from you. No I don't know what Gang Gyok is, but I'd love to find out!!

Giragirasol: What I mean is the physical pain one feels in the chest both from trepidation because the effort is so huge and the pain in the body/chest because the effort is so huge physically. Fundamentally when the physical effort is huge, there is energy reserve now in the body and no trepidation and no pain the the chest area. I think Loco talked about it in earlier posts when he mentioned something about how the Tibetans describe it in terms of the inner fire burning away impurities. I look at it more physiologically and I think he said something about this also. Also, the mind is so still and unruffled, there is no effect in terms of concern and worry and fear in the body. Hope this makes sense.

Haha the enigmatic Kang gyog which is more like rkang mgyogs or even རྐང་མགྱོགས་ which in english means the "swift foot". It's a legendary technique which was brought to fame by alexandra david neel who, in her book "magiciens et mystiques du tibet", said she witnessed a yogi who ran using this technique. So it's suppose to give you the ability to run very fast (much faster that normal) on very long distances (hundreds of kilometers) without any feeling of exhaustion. What is true here is that distances were a huge problem in Tibet back in time because it would literally take you months to go from one place to another. So when there were pressing matters like political turmoil or crazy meditation experiences that needed help you would be left alone because there was not enough time to seek help.
In fact i think i came across a manuscript giving a description of it having more to do with the lack of exhaustion than the mere speed of the running. Now let's say you use this technique (i remember that part of it has to do with focusing intently on a star, while running...) and instead of taking 4 months to go from Derge to Lhasa it takes you 1 because you can run almost non stop; then people would end up saying that you run very fast and "you can jump on mountains peak" but the truth is that you just run non stop so you cover much more distance. And running almost non stop is indeed possible.
So this is my two cents on it, in the same area you also have the grong 'jug technique which allows to enter dead bodies and use them as you want and which was listed as the seventh yoga of naropa but the instruction seems to be lost.
Now loco if you have good info about it i would really happy to, at last, figure out if it's legendary or not.

Yes, Loco...I'm with Obobinde...really curious about this practice. There's a mountain down the road...not too far way!!
Paul

Questions from the tsa lung video...

Where's the intersection of the 3 channels? 3rd eye?
Where/what is the secret chakra?

Hey Nadavspi, I am just learning about this stuff too. I ordered Awakening the Sacred Body by Tenzin Wangyal (he is the one in the Video) and it helps with further explanation of Tsa Lung.

The secret chakra is four finger-widths below the navel. I have no idea why it is called "secret".

Also helpful is Lama Yeshe's The Bliss of Inner Fire book.

The three channels converge at the Secret chakra. The two side channels go inside of the central channel. The central channel goes all the way up through the crown chakra and the two side channels go out the nostrils.
As far as further intersections go; In Tenzin's book he explains the Channels without intersections at the other chakras. pg. 5 (unless he mentions it further). In Lama Yeshe's book he says that the three channels intersect at each chakra.

Correct me if I am wrong anyone.

Here is a pic:
www.freudeamleben.eu/images/signs/energy3channels.jpg

Peace.

ok, ok...
I am typing this from another planet these days and bliss has extinguished my memory completely, so I hope I ll be able to be comprehensible.

Remember, the purpose of tummo is to create bliss. we create the heat only to get the bliss. the bliss will carry you the 700miles. for the last 0,5 inch to enlightenment you can mix mahamudra with selfinquiry or do nothing, it will hit you anyway, if you got into the staying bliss.

there are 4 different types of bliss + 1 secret bliss following each other in the process. For those who have problems with the sideffects of the violent method use the gentle style (not contracting but just pulling up und holding the breath shorter), or an excellent method called "the seven suns" or even just the visualisations. (with just the visualisation you will probably not get heat but with time some bliss). gentler and gentler in order of mention.

if sideeffects is a topic for you: the more you use methods in which you move the body while holding the breath (like tsa lung, trulkhor), the less sideffects you will get.

so, here we come to a method Kang gyok or Lun Ta in which you can use the bodies way to dicharge. see whenever you have too much charge, the body uses the legs to discharge: when children are angry they are stomping with their feet, when you are very afraid your knees will shake (if you stay) or run to flee.

Gang gyok uses this fact. It is a meditation that combines the benefits of tummo (charge) with the benefits of running (discharge/spreading).

You should do 2 or 3 preliminary practices of trulkhor before, especially the spinejumping is cool and traditionally used, the breath through both nostrils should be equal before you run.

1. Make a fist with your middle and ringfinger, enclose the thumb. index finger pinky are stretched.

2. breath in through your closed teeth along the back of your throat and hold 1/3rd of the breath in the place 4 fingers below the navel, 1 finger in front of the spine, with the size of an egg. that means also caontract the lower abdomen a little (25%)

3. breath only through the nose, rather flat. never open the mouth. rather slow down.

4. visualise yourself as a very, very beautiful/handsome transparent green girl/guy with wings instead of arms. under your feet is a green light or half moon so that you never touch the earth while running, in your navel is a green light that might get stronger when you breath in.

7. bend your upper body a bit forward, dont stay upright.

8. Now run 21 steps as strong and fast with body bent forward. give as much power as possible

9. Run the next 21 steps fully at ease without any power, let the energy move your body, keep the visualisation, breath only through the nose.

10. When your legs loose energy or get weak focus on the light in your navel. concentrate on keeping 30 % of the breath there unchanged so that you only breath with the rest of 70%. If you feel something pulling you down add 2 green lights in your armpits or if necessary 2 deities that carry you there.

"Tulku Lobsang is giving a workshop of that this week near Vienna. Is that worth learning? what have you experienced with it? Thanks

Oh, and apparently he's making a DVD about it!"

I enjoy Kang gyok very much. I don't know the workshop of tulku lobsang, I havent been there but its probably fun he is a great guy.

That's great! Thanks for that, its so much fun!

Here's is a video of Tulku Lobsang, it is in german, but you can see him do this stuff in minute 3.40 or so. I'd be cool to understand what he's saying, so if anybody is bored enough a transcript in english would be awesome! If not, watching the dude is good already!

"The secret chakra is four finger-widths below the navel. I have no idea why it is called "secret"."

yes, 4 fingers below, 1,5 fingers in front of the spine, more to the back and down as people usually think it is, interestingly often that helps .
size of a coin to an egg. easy to create bliss there.

It is called secret because it is where you wouldn't exspect something to be. The place feels for experienced practitioners very empty, in a way not here at all, or like a gate downwards.
the winds extinguish each other here. so it is for untrained people not part of there bodyperception (not part of the emotional "system") just because it is so empty and thoughts have a tendency to stop if you focus it, it is not seen.

"
You should do 2 or 3 preliminary practices of trulkhor before, especially the spinejumping is cool and traditionally used,"

Is that when you jump and land on your ass?

I am not very happy with the usual interpretation of negativ sideeffects as purification or cleaning etc.

I think these are simplifications that do neither contribute to the quality of teaching nor do they help practitioners. they just mean that the practice has triggered something that he/the teacher doesn't understand.

example: somebody feels aggression after practice and starts a quarrel with his partner and we reframe that "thats a purification".

if somebodies aggression has been supressed in childhood, his body will react with musclecontraction to supress the expression of aggressive feelings. these contractions become permanent if he had to permanently supress them and with time the contracted status becomes the new baseline, tensions become unconscious "normal", he will not feel them anymore.
because he had no chance to learn freely how to handle aggression (parents unwanted behaviour) when he is an adult he still doesn't have the ability to handle them. but he may be suffering from the lack of energy and aliveness that result from permanently contracting muscles and suppressing breath and aggressive thoughts. he reduced his/her natural overall energylevel to a for him controllable level.

tbc.

If he does a practice that raises the energy level now, he will see his feelings coming back, unconscious contractions in the organs and muscles loosen up and also the aggression that he suppressed will come back. but he still has no ability to regulate that (unwanted) feelings, in that aspect he is still a 3year old in an adult body when it comes to aggression and like a child is overwhelmed by his feelings.

it is not the practice that made him aggressive nor is it really a purification. there is no dirt in the body that could be cleaned.
it's just time to learn to use that new vitality, maybe make some things clear that you don't like, learn to regulate feelings but its not something bad that will go by.

"Is that when you jump and land on your ass?"

no, you are lying on your back, hands and legs in adduction and shoot hands and legs into the sky so that you jump in the air and land on your back again. looks like you would jump with your spine. use a yoga mattress visualise a light in the navel getting bigger

category: radical chiropractics ) don't do the big jump on the ass, please. this one has the same effect without breaking your bones

"I am not very happy with the usual interpretation of negativ sideeffects as purification or cleaning etc....

example: somebody feels aggression after practice and starts a quarrel with his partner and we reframe that "thats a purification".

if somebodies aggression has been supressed in childhood, his body will react with musclecontraction to supress the expression of aggressive feelings. these contractions become permanent if he had to permanently supress them and with time the contracted status becomes the new baseline, tensions become unconscious "normal", he will not feel them anymore.
because he had no chance to learn freely how to handle aggression (parents unwanted behaviour) when he is an adult he still doesn't have the ability to handle them. but he may be suffering from the lack of energy and aliveness that result from permanently contracting muscles and suppressing breath and aggressive thoughts. he reduced his/her natural overall energylevel to a for him controllable level."

Loco - that's a nice explanation that syncs with my experiences in qi gong. I don't always find that releasing these buried (unaware-of) tensions are even tied to something I can identify, like a childhood memory (besides which I did plenty of psychotherapy in the past). But I often find that I discover new tensions I wasn't aware of and when they release there is often a release that appears emotional such as facial expressions like anger or grief, even though there are no accompanying thoughts, stories or memories relating to them. I don't personally find it problematic to call this "purification" but I can see how it might be misunderstood or misused. I use the term for the similar processes that sitting meditation triggers, of unloading beliefs, memories, fears, fantasies, delusions, etc. (edited for grammar)

"

category: radical chiropractics ) don't do the big jump on the ass, please. this one has the same effect without breaking your bones"

Oh dear, I've never seen that. That's interesting. Does it have a name?

Lama Lobsang taught us the jumping on our ass from sitting position, impulsing yourself from the floor with your hands and landing back on your bottom. Total height about 4 cm maximum.

You say they have the same effect. What is the exact effect they should have?

Hi there,
is anyone practicing vipassana and tummo together ?
I've always been really interested in tummo but i don't want to start jumping from one practice to another ; i'm already doing 2 hours of vipassana, and because i teach yoga i have to keep a solid practice of it everyday ( Nauli +1h30 of ashtanga yoga+ 15 mn pranayama) so this is already a lot of things. I've always thought getting first path first would be better before attempting tummo but if practising both at the same is ok i'd go for it ! Is there nayone here who has either practise both at the same time or switched from vipassana to tummo ?

"Oh dear, I've never seen that. That's interesting. Does it have a name?

Lama Lobsang taught us the jumping on our ass from sitting position, impulsing yourself from the floor with your hands and landing back on your bottom. Total height about 4 cm maximum.

You say they have the same effect. What is the exact effect they should have?"

Ah, ok. I see. no, that one is harmless. I thought you mean the exercise where one jumps in the air, goes in the double lotos at the highest point and falls all the way down on ones tailbone (and can not sit for a half year).

The other exercise I mean has a name, but I forgot it. But we have some translators on the forum, maybe they know.

The effect ist that everytime you fall on the spine you land a little on another place that moves the vertebrae along each other and releases blocks in the spine. it trains also what is called the "core muscle" because of the jumping. the shocks in the spine also seem to have an activating effect on the kundalini don't ask me why. some say that with time depots of co2 accumulate within the spine are now pressed out (what makes the "knack"-sound at the osteopath). i am not convinced, feels different.
the feeling is to be more free, energetic and pleasant. it helps for the running. it is very pleasant.

the starting position can be seen here www.asianart.com/articles/baker/3.html : the 1st of 3 rows, the second picture, looks like a turtle on the back, from there throw arms and legs in the sky like punching and kicking at the same time with all 4, that makes you jump. they do this hundreds of times

Hi Loco,
Thank for the instructions Loco. I really look forward to exploring the whole thing. Had a small bash today....already my 'gate' ie the way the body runs is different to how I've run my whole life.
Paul

Just out of curiosity - Has anyone here tried tummo as a pre-noting practice, in the same way I use samatha, i.e. do 15 minutes of tummo then note for 40 or something like that? I am curious to know if anyone has any experience with doing that...

I haven't tried it with Tummo, but I think that the 9 breaths and Tsa Lung are excellent pre-meditation warm ups.

BTW, my Tummo progress has been very slow. I have been doing the preliminary practices but I have had one major issue with Tummo itself- I am really, really horrible at waking up early to meditate. On most days I roll out of bed with just enough time to make it to work. I have tried all week to get up early enough to practice Tummo. Waking up early has been one of the great difficulties in my life. It doesn't seem to matter if I get 8 or even 10 hours of sleep, I still can't seem to become an early riser. The only time I really have a chance to meditate is in the evenings, and I don't see that as a great time to practice energetic techniques.

Anyways, this is something that I am very interested in so I will continue to try to wake up early to practice. There is always the weekend mornings and I may even try to practice in the afternoons on the rare days that I get out of work early.

Question: I think I may have read this somewhere in this thread, but has anyone experienced needing less sleep at night as a result of Tummo practice? This would be a major bonus for me. Thanks.

Not with noting But the mind becomes very stable after heavy pranyama and it is a very good place to do self inquiry, investigate. or dwell as the witness. But in my experience there is something forceful about this stableness that feels very solid. And I think noting would feel very unnatural to do. But try it out and see

Quote by Ramana from Upadesa Saram

"The mind may be subdued by regulating the breath, just as a bird is restrained when caught in a net. This practice controls the mind."

But he also says

"Breath control is recommended for the man who cannot control his mind straight away .... It may do as an aid but can never lead to the goal itself .... A more advanced man will naturally go direct to control of mind without wasting his time in practising control of breath.'

I think that man has to be very advanced and is not very often found However just following the breath is a much more gentle approach that leads to the same goal. I think all people on this forum has first hand experience from doing this on how mind and breath go together. Calm mind = calm breath. Breath retention turns the equation around to Calm breath = calm mind.