Loco's journal 1

Thank you Nick, it seems you already fixed my problem with your advice. (Especially your description of the mental focus shifting to the (...) surface of the body turned the whole thing around) Thanks a lot!!!

The dark little man inside is building his cathedrals and with every stone the house gets smaller, until it vanishes in a black hole of contraction. but the roofs were holey from the beginning and the windows open vastly, they can't hold in the sky. I am knowing about you, little man, from the corner of my eye, by simply seeing what is here.

Not a lot of practice these days. Several PCEs approximately 30-60 minutes in the evenings the last days. Impressed by the clarity/gravity, but doesn't feel very special anymore, pleasant friendlyness of things like in a sensual night with a companion. seems to be the same experience.

under rather extreme circumstances after the 3rd sleepless night the last man standing in the house is following general moores dictum: there is always one more thing you can do, to increase your odds of success. with one eye sleeping and the other in the witness i am asking "who am i" while i am carrying a toddler around who seems to know that i have no ego ....

2x45 WAI trying to destilate the difference between Kenneths MM and the Tummo MM and another state. Ks is always surprising me, it is so different everytime

Back in practice-mode these days. suffering arises, always after pausing during the start-up-process. 45 min WAI. (why didn't I practice regularly the last weeks? I don't really know)

loping through the cornfields, the ears are ripening under my hands and become transparent. what once was terrible is pellucid now. what you are afraid of, has already happened. a thousand lifes and only one pain. the future is free.

I have staying access to the 8th stage and I don't know what to say about that... Everybody is responsible for himself.

Loco,

You've got a knack for describing practices in detail (see the Tummo thread). Have you got a description of the 8th stage and perhaps some clues as to how one would approach it?

I agree that we are all responsible for ourselves, so feel free to ignore this post.

"Loco,

You've got a knack for describing practices in detail (see the Tummo thread). Have you got a description of the 8th stage and perhaps some clues as to how one would approach it?

I agree that we are all responsible for ourselves, so feel free to ignore this post."

Hi mumuwu, 8th stage physiology:

The brain from the earline to the front feels deactivated or absent. in the neck and on the back of the head is a warmth and tingling. the muscles of the face are deactivated and there is a reduced mimic activity, the jaw has a tendency to fall down and leave the mouth open and relaxed. because of the loss of muscletension my face looks a bit like a skull, or the face of a dead person (if you work in a medical profession or have seen a corpse you will know what i mean), the eyes a bit like holes and the nose a bit spiky (pointed face). i would not name it pce rather pbe (pure body experience). because of the loss of contraction in the frontal part of the brain, the point from where you perceive has changed its position its more in the back of the brain and in my case to the right. experience is perceived from this new perspective, which changes it into a kind of hollywood-autumnlight-movie. there is heat in the palms and soles. the increased data coming from the senses seem to overclock the brain and create all kinds of disfunctionalities, like not knowing what i should say or want to do, also i have problems with visual information of my body. if i see my hand feeding my mouth, it doesn't seem to be my hand, nor my body. it's more a change in perspective than a stage. therefore everything can arise in it. there seems to be an intermediate state when the ego leaves or comes back, which is very beautiful (more than the 8th stage itself) and glowing. i have a tendency to fall into a complete absorption of the senses which results in a kind of jhanic experience (but its not a normal jhana probably)
tbc later...

At the moment I can not really recommend to stay in this mode forever because it seems to be quite an opportunistic stage (meaning that as long as you are in you feel it is the highest, but when you get out you can see, that it could be the mother of all illusions also). Also there seems a price to be paid. which is your soul ) (diabolic smile). Thats what I meant with everybody is responsible for himself. There is a rather big difference to normal mode (as big as in a drugexperience). Whenever I try to meditate the mind seeks automatically to go back into this stage.

Lets try to describe a "How to":

1. Sit down and relax. Remember that you have to do nothing to get there.

2. Relax you face. Look stupid, like a mentally retard in a psychiatry in 19th century. get a strange/alienated relation to your environment. Then relax also your fronthead completely. feel the depersonalisation. You don't have to do anything. It will happen with you.

3. Feel that electric charge is taken back from the fronthead in the brain to the back of the head. open your eyes a bit more like somebody crazy in a movie. feel that fear and vulnerability will arise if you let all those impressions in. let them make you afraid. the world is much stronger than you anyway. it will crush and kill you anyway. so let it happen now. you need that fear, cauise it delivers the alertness that is an ingredient of the state. take the awakeness with you. turn into the fear. allow yourself to get even a bit hysteric/panicing. allow yourself to be overwhelmend by the incoming impression of the senses.

tbc.

4. be as passive as possible. let the world take over completely. it will take care of you as it proofs every day of your life. you don't even know how often to breath in a minute, how to be born or how to make your heart beat.

5. detect selfing along the midline of the body via selfinquiry. when it comes to the place between the eyes: there is a thin pulsing spiderweb of contraction around a tabletennisball sized part of your brain there. (memories of earliest childhood when the web first occured are associated with this phase in my case) how would it feel to be free from that? from where would you see the world? put this spiderwebball away from the midline 1 meter to the right of your head. how is it? cause that is what is real.


6. confusion. allow yourself to be as confused as possible. confusion is an ingredient for the magic potion. enter the mist of unknowing. your old way to perceive does not fit anymore and the new is not there now, so what else can you be than confused?

7. give up, it all didn't make sense anyway or are you here because you were so happy? let it all happen with you. be estranged by what you see. yes, it is not your body. it is not your mind. your environment owns the mind. how would this room look, if you where not in it? lets say you died, would it still be there? how would it look? feel the loss of power in your body like a castaway in the middle of the night. the world will wash you ashore on the right place. when robinson opened his eyes the next time after he gave in completely to everything unspiritual, he awoke on a beach in the morninglight. so relax and let it carry you. you don't have to do anything.

"Hi mumuwu, 8th stage physiology:

The brain from the earline to the front feels deactivated or absent. in the neck and on the back of the head is a warmth and tingling. the muscles of the face are deactivated and there is a reduced mimic activity, the jaw has a tendency to fall down and leave the mouth open and relaxed. because of the loss of muscletension my face looks a bit like a skull, or the face of a dead person (if you work in a medical profession or have seen a corpse you will know what i mean), the eyes a bit like holes and the nose a bit spiky (pointed face). i would not name it pce rather pbe (pure body experience). because of the loss of contraction in the frontal part of the brain, the point from where you perceive has changed its position its more in the back of the brain and in my case to the right. experience is perceived from this new perspective, which changes it into a kind of hollywood-autumnlight-movie. there is heat in the palms and soles. the increased data coming from the senses seem to overclock the brain and create all kinds of disfunctionalities, like not knowing what i should say or want to do, also i have problems with visual information of my body. if i see my hand feeding my mouth, it doesn't seem to be my hand, nor my body. it's more a change in perspective than a stage. therefore everything can arise in it. there seems to be an intermediate state when the ego leaves or comes back, which is very beautiful (more than the 8th stage itself) and glowing. i have a tendency to fall into a complete absorption of the senses which results in a kind of jhanic experience (but its not a normal jhana probably)
tbc later..."

Loco,

Is it possible that these side effects that you are describing are due to a focus on the emptiness and nothingness aspect? What does your body do if you focus on the awareness or luminosity aspect? Can your mind allow itself to differentiate?

"Loco,

Is it possible that these side effects that you are describing are due to a focus on the emptiness and nothingness aspect? What does your body do if you focus on the awareness or luminosity aspect? Can your mind allow itself to differentiate? "

Hi Orasis,

Yes, probably possible. But the mind is not focusing when I am in the state. There is no mind (that could focus).

The environment owns the mind and "I" am completely taken over.

The moment I give a direction, the body reacts to it as if it would step on a thorn, and starts to fall out of paradise.

At the moment I am experimenting with reimplanting some of the useful egofunction, and it is possible, but every pound of ego takes away a pound of pleasure. and it would be soooo easy and healthy to just be ... (and hang on this infusion of endogen drugs)

Gotcha.

I asked because I am able to experience two different states that I would describe as "perfect". One has the characteristics of the one you describe, its really really devoid of problems but for whatever reason, my thoughts do not like the aesthetic of it.

The other state is focused on awareness itself with the aspect of the self-luminous nature of phenomena as well as full body, breath, sights, and sounds being online. For whatever reason, my thoughts grasp more to this state and prefers the aesthetics of this.

I currently have a theory that these two may line up with what Longchenpa was describing in a translation I heard of "Self Liberating Mind" (or something like that). He said, very clearly, to:

1) Ratchet up Shamata until thoughts subside
2) Focus on either the Emptiness Aspect or Awareness Aspect to access Rigpa
3) Abide in that

Perhaps the choice of aspect to focus on creates some difference in experience?

I am likely totally wrong since this is the thinking mind trying to categorize this stuff, but maybe there is something to learn here...

Yes, thank you. (The luminous aspect seems to be what I called "the intermediate state")

I've spent some days with friends who are specialists discussing how to diagnose the thing, because the diagnoses I've heard in the web were wrong (dissociation, alexythymia, psychotic, etc.) that was clear.

The right diagnosis would be Depersonalisation (ICD-10 F48.1.)

It is more or less physiogical and common (around 40% in population once in life). It's evolutionary sense is that if you are in extreme stress (see ekkart tolles a.o.stories how they awoke in extreme crisis) the mind changes the mode.
the depersonalised mode allows to play dead when you are attacked by a wild animal or an overwhelmingly strong enemy which increases the chance of survival. to play dead when having extreme pain you need to have the feeling that the pain happpens (ability to check the situation) but it happens to somebody else (you are not in the picture).

this would also explain why it can be triggered by 1. completely giving up/in (like against a much stronger oponent) and 2. by sitting still for very long times (meditation), which is playing dead. also the association with death (feeling of the ego having died) fit in.

it is also free of suffering and pain because in a faithless situation both feelings loose their purpose and the pain needs treatment with endogen opiates/morphins. the loss of memory which is often described seems to also have it's sense (if you survive somehow you don't need to have all traumatising details)

Well, that was a very interesting monologue Anyway they use the state for treating people with untreatable/chronic pain, If my hair-raising idea is right and it is "Depersonalisation" and the same state like in hypnotherapy for painpatient i will find it out in the next weeks, because an old friend will come by and apply it on me, yeah i am getting depersonalised.

Meditation: no matter what or how I meditate the mind goes always into 8th stage or close to it (depending on how long i sit). it seems to somehow have fallen in love with it. i am gonna find out what happens if i don't meditate the next days and do the extreme businesspunk lifestylething

Hmmm, interesting. Had probably for 12h no access to the stage. While I found myself thinking skepticly about the stage and especially its calmness, I have to admit that loosing it was a very unpleasant experience and reminded me how sick life can feel. I become aggressive/fearful when having no access to it.
At the moment there is again this pleasant 10% stream flowing in the underground, which allows to know about it whitout getting in completely, and different aspects of the 100% experience show up from time to time if they like. meditation -no matter which- would increease the stream to 30-100% depending on factors I don't know.

no access - live is easy again. Loosing access means gaining a goal. And there is nothing easier than practice. things get tuff, when you achieve something, especially when it is wellbeeing... cause what then?

comes to my mind now, that both losses of access could be related to small doses of alcohol I drank

Another physiological 8th stage trigger:

where the ears reach into the head is a feeling like a weight pulling downwards. in the same spot is a melting warmth. the joint where the jaw meets the head: also the feeling of warm heaviness.

the face especially in the beginning the cheeks sometimes starts tingling.

if you know the paintings of Dali: imagine your eyes beeing two of the melting clocks melting to the floor; a melting movement of tissue of tissue downwards.

sometimes also: like the sand in an hourglass the skin of your face is trickling down. the mask of the person is melting away (per sonare=the voice of the actor is sounding through the masks in ancient greek theater)

The state is clearly induced by endogen opiates. if you take an opiate antagonist (or more precisly medication which blocks opiate receptors) it will aprubtly end. very very unpleasant btw. (the same medication has sometimes been successful in treatment of depersonalisation disorders)

that explains also:

- relation to extreme stress/pain-situations (opites/painkiller) and depersonalisation
- "calming out" of emotions
- why one first is skeptic and with time likes it and the mind finds the place by itself without meditation ("addiction" or in this case auto-addiction LOL)
- increase of sleepquality
- wellbeeing (but in my experience no real joy or humor), a pleasant but rather montone or steady quality
- aggressiveness when falling out ("on detoxification")

@PM: 1. No, I don't think it's dangerous. I think it's better to be addicted to your own endogen drugs than to your own suffering (which is also endogen drugs).
2. I simply have no competence to answer the question. I don't know how it is/what happens when one stays in 100% of the time. But there are people here who have. I am able to trigger it. And at the moment I am training going in and then build up enough motivation to find the way out again (that part is pretty tuff honestly, and feels quite unnatural).