Antero's practice journal 4

After a major shift in my practise lately, I feel that it is again time to start a new practice journal. I will include links to my previous journals for future reference:

Working my way to A&P and Stream Entry (1st and 2nd stage of enlightenment on Kenneth's map, Stream entry posts #87-88):

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/39...B4s+practise+journal

Going through paths 2 '“ 4 (Stages 3 '“ 5) (2nd path see post #47, 3rd path see posts #77-82, 4th path see post #146):

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/41...7s+pactise+journal+2

And stages 6 and 7 (6th stage, see post #25- and 7th stage see post #45-):

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/44...s+practise+journal+3

After speaking with Kenneth, I still quite unsure what to make of the latest major shift in my practice (disembedding from the narrative mind, see posts #206 '“ 207 in my previous practice journal).

Kenneth is defining 8th stage as the end of the line of developmental enlightenment, meaning that no further progress is possible after that point. I take it to mean that we are then talking about 4th path of ten fetters model. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

I feel for the first time on my path that there is no reason for me to continue practicing any more. I think I may have resolved all the issues I had when I started this journey. Still there are times when some old stuff is resurfacing from time to time in a very subtle form. It may very well be that the integration process is still going on, but I am suspecting that further refining of attention could still be possible if I wanted. Time will tell.

I am also realizing how unnecessary paths and stages eventually are. Non-dual awareness is like a razor, cutting though all superfluous in life and revealing the Essential Nature of Mind any moment. No attainments are needed for that. On the other hand it took me all kinds of stages and landmarks to realize it, so how is that for a paradox It would seem that for the full benefit dual and non-dual practices can and should be developed side by side.

Thanks for continuing your journal Antero. I have been following it for some time and it has always been an inspiration!

edit: Also, I really love that you included the threads and exact posts were you went throught the different paths! I wish every 4 pather would do this. Being able to easily reference it can be very helpful when a yogi starts to go through those stages.

Antero, in what way has your yoga practice contributed to this process?

Hi Antero,

Question, question, questions.
May I ask you which practice you liked the most? And was the one you liked most, the most useful for you? I saw the beginning of your journal was in 2010, did it only take you a year to get through all 4 paths?

Thank you

(Cont.)

Actually I have come to respect the simple and straight forward way of using the body as the vessel for continuous awareness. Pattabhi Jois taught Ashtanga in a really down-to-earth and no-nonsense style. He answered to all questions that did not have direct relevance to the actual practice in his legendary way:

'Just do your practice and all is coming.' or 'Yoga is 99% practice, 1% theory.'

and that was just about the limit of his English language. So he was perhaps not the most accessible teacher of all time. That did not prevent him from becoming well-known teacher all over though.

The good thing about his style was that faith and '˜getting it' has little to do with it. You just do your '˜exercise' the way you are told and that is about all there is to it. Things happen in your body and your mind follows.

[Edited for clarity]

Thanks Anthony!

"Antero, in what way has your yoga practice contributed to this process?"
- Orasis

When I first starting working with Kenneth, I thought I have sweated on the mat for nothing for the past nine years doing hard core Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga asana and pranayama practice. Admittedly I regularly got first two jhanas doing those practices and even up to 5th once. The morning practice changed my state of mind for the whole day significantly and changed me in many various ways. But it did not make me progress along the stages of insight and that is why I thought I had missed the whole thing.

It was only in retrospect I have come to realize how much that practice really benefited me in many ways. Even though I did not progress through the nanas, doing Ashtanga must have developed me on non-dual axis. When I started doing Vipassana, I ran into non-dual states of mind very early on. Also my level of concentration and body / mind awareness seemed to be quite sufficient for Vipassana right from the start.

I am also speculating that the purification process of the intensive asana and pranayama practices helped in reducing the unpleasant side effects of Vipassana to very bearable levels. That enabled me to continue practicing at full speed through dukkha nanas and make fast progress.

I would also think that the well developed body awareness that naturally comes from Ashtanga practice was helpful when doing Direct Mode practice after 4th path. So perhaps all that time on the mat was not so wasted after all

(Cont.)

"May I ask you which practice you liked the most? And was the one you liked most, the most useful for you? I saw the beginning of your journal was in 2010, did it only take you a year to get through all 4 paths?
- LocoAutriaco"

Hi Loco,

It is certainly possible to get from Stream Entry to 4th path in six months as there are others who have done it as well. Although I wouldn't advice setting any time limits for your progress as that is the best way to create some major frustrations. I think it is more productive to find ways to put this day into good use for yourself and other by practicing as diligently as possible.

Some advice for smooth progress:

1. Set up weekly sessions with a proficient teacher who you can trust.
2. Once you are sure you understand your teacher's instructions, do exactly as he says. Do not try to improve the technique or tweak it in any way.
3. Forget all sidetracks. This forum is full of all kinds of interesting approaches that may not benefit you where you are at the moment. The teacher will give you the techniques once you are ready for them.
4. Some form of practice is possible at any moment. Every day is a retreat. Try to outdo yourself the next day. For more see for example this thread:

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/41...ery+day+is+a+retreat

Kenneth taught me exactly the right techniques at the right time when I needed them. I got first path by doing noting and The Wheel (looking for the sweet spot at the third eye). Between first and second path I did some noting and mostly The Wheel. After second path I did the Witness most of the time on and off the cushion. It started coming really easily after second path and felt like the right thing to do at that stage. After third path the Witness started to dissolve on it's own into a non-dual state of Rigpa. That was my main practice combined with Nirodha Samapatti until 4th path.

Thank you, for this post Antero, it is coming to the right person at the right time! Thank you.

One could argue that one of the most significant change that happens through different paths and stages of enlightenment is the transformation of mind states. At first disembedding from gross unwholesome mind states like anger, jealousy and aversion, then refinement and decreasing of negative mind states and spontaneous arising of positive ones. At sixth stage on Kenneth's map the unwholesome mind states ceased to arise, leaving only the sublime attitudes aka Brahmaviharas. Now it appears that they too are developing somehow.

Lately it has been very hard for me to say what exactly my mind state is at any given moment. Or even to say what is the definition of mind state at all. It looks like the process of refinement changed the experiencing of mind states from mental to a physical level and then to subtler vibrational level altogether. Recently this has been changing to even more subtle level.

What I seem to experience as my default mind state seems to be pretty constant and stable state of wellbeing or equanimity that is hard to define. It is much subtler than peace, contentment or equanimity that I am familiar with. As an experiment I tried to generate metta. Instead of warm buzzing feeling at the chest and a sense of sending vibrations to the person I had in my mind, there was a feeling of opening up or tuning into a frequency that is metta. No me sending anything, more like realizing the fact that metta is vibrating everywhere, a Law of Nature like gravity.

(Cont.)

I have not experienced joy, happiness, bliss or peace for some time now. Or any contractive body state for that matter. What has replaced them is a feeling of deep equanimity, so refined that it almost does not feels like a mind state at all. I do not think that I have lost in the bargain though. The mind that was already quiet has become even more still and peaceful. This development could also be compared to the progression of the jhanic arc. When one reaches 4th jhana, all the earlier jhanic factors like joy, happiness and bliss have disappeared and let go of, yet 4th jhana feels more satisfactory that the previous ones.

Still my body is functioning the same ways as before. I am laughing and playing around with the kids like before. I am still considerate, affectionate, funny, sensitive and all that, but there is just less '˜me' around. At times it feels like things seem to happen on their own and I am just seeing it happen like 'did that come out of my mouth just now? Not bad'.

The closest thing that I get to states of contraction, are very short moment of vibration in some parts of the body. Those vibrations do not seem to have any corresponding tension in the body, so they are not registered as unpleasant. Otherwise the subtle body of vibrations that I have been sensing very clearly for some time now seems to be completely absent nowadays.

Do you dream?

"Do you dream?
- mumuwu"

Yes I do. I get vivid and lifelike dreams. When I fall aslep, usually there is still some awareness of the body left. This thread of body awareness seems to continue through the night on some level and I recently have had many dreams in which I am sleeping

There is also a tendency to wake up a lot earlier before my alarm in the morning.

Wow, Antero, hyvin tehty!
Thanks for continuing your logging!

Hi Antero,
thank you for sharing your experiences, it's highly motivating.

Can you still access dhyanas ?
Have you tried to match your experience with the non dual map of dzogchen and mahamudra ( four yogas) ?.
here is a very thorough description of the dzogchen path :
www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/group.html_1560843409.html
it would be nice if we could find parallels between your experiences and the old non dual maps.

thank you

@meekan: Kiitos!

@obodinde: Thanks! I just tried the jhanic arc and it feels very different now. The shape of the attention feels exactly the same as before, one pointed in the first jhana and so on, but otherwise I do not seem to get the jhanic factors at all, just wide open mind space. If this was the first time I encountered jhanas, it would be very hard for me to see any difference between them.

I am afraid that I cannot relate to the descriptions of Dzogchen practice. For example the following passage sounds interesting, but I cannot tell what that would mean in concrete experiential terms:

'After recognizing effulgent rigpa and being able to stay focused with it, we recognize essence rigpa. This is rigpa in its aspect of being the open space (klong) or cognitive sphere (dbyings) that allows for the arising of appearances and the cognizing of them, with the latter more prominent. When we recognize and stay focused with this, we attain break-through (thregs-chod), the path of seeing (mthong-lam).'

If only some advanced Dzogchen practitioner would write a practice journal on this site'¦

However, I have recently been experiencing narrowing of the gap between Rigpa (as Kenneth has taught it to me) and my normal baseline awareness to the point that I cannot tell much (or at all) difference between them. Especially this feature has been deepening lately, so it is probably too early to say where it will lead.

Hi Antero,
Can you say more about Kenneth's teachings on Rigpa ?

"The closest thing that I get to states of contraction, are very short moment of vibration in some parts of the body. Those vibrations do not seem to have any corresponding tension in the body, so they are not registered as unpleasant. Otherwise the subtle body of vibrations that I have been sensing very clearly for some time now seems to be completely absent nowadays."

Do you notice any vibrations whatsoever in, for example, the visual field (MCTB's "impermanence" characteristic)? Or is it that when you look at an object, that object appears absolutely static?

What do the back of your eyelids look like?

"As an experiment I tried to generate metta. Instead of warm buzzing feeling at the chest and a sense of sending vibrations to the person I had in my mind, there was a feeling of opening up or tuning into a frequency that is metta. No me sending anything, more like realizing the fact that metta is vibrating everywhere, a Law of Nature like gravity."

This is similar to my experience currently, except I find that there is a "vibrating" emotional metta directed at someone / something, and a "non-vibrating", unbounded, undirected metta underlying it.

Ain't it cool?

Congrats Congrats Congrats! Way to go - you inspire me a ton Antero.

"Hi Antero,
Can you say more about Kenneth's teachings on Rigpa ?
- stephencoe100"

Hi Steve,

Kenneth initially taught me to recognize the essential nature of the mind (Rigpa) using a pointer 'Who is watching the watcher' when deep in the Witness state. Once I learned to recognize this state of mind, I could access it anytime just by expanding my field of awareness to 360 degrees.

Later I used 'Listening for the ships' and that worked for me very well indeed.

About the mind state of Rigpa itself, I don't think I can say anything about it that Kenneth has not said much better in his podcasts

Lately I have found that I cannot '˜access' Rigpa anymore. Some weeks ago there was a slight expanding of the mind when I let myself to that state. Now that gap has closed, it seems, and there is no movement, just infinite spaciousness. My working theory is that it is '˜on' all the time nowadays.

"This is similar to my experience currently, except I find that there is a "vibrating" emotional metta directed at someone / something, and a "non-vibrating", unbounded, undirected metta underlying it.

Ain't it cool?

- EndInSight"

I think it is, EndInSight

Although your hardcore machinegun vipassana style is a bit different from my approach and that may be the reason I cannot completely relate to all of your observations. Still reading your journal, I have noticed many similarities with my own experiences lately. Especially what you wrote about identifying '˜I' with arupa jhanas in your post #204 rang the bell for me.

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/46...et=200&maxResults=20

I hope you found what you were looking for; I am starting to think that I have found mine as well.

"Congrats Congrats Congrats! Way to go - you inspire me a ton Antero.
- Ron"

Wow, thanks Ron!

"Lately I have found that I cannot '˜access' Rigpa anymore. Some weeks ago there was a slight expanding of the mind when I let myself to that state. Now that gap has closed, it seems, and there is no movement, just infinite spaciousness. My working theory is that it is '˜on' all the time nowadays.

"

Hi Antero,

Thanks for the reply.
I have also been using ' listening for the ships' lately and realized that there is an element of surrender to it ( total surrender ) . I also came to the
conclusion that the 'surrenderer' and what they 'surrender' to are the same thing . The phrase ' one taste ' came to mind. This gives rise to a feeling of having nowhere to go ( no riggle room ). I think this might be similar, if not the same, to your experience of the gap closing and there being no movement. Not being able to access Rigpa is because thats all there is, and all there ever was/will be.

I just love having this forum/site to discuss these things! Eternal thanks to Kenneth for setting it up. Thanks Antero for carrying on posting.

Much Metta Steve.

Would you agree that what we are calling ' Rigpa ' is something that is BEYOND a mind/body state, beyond the senses and cognition?