Antero's practice journal 4

"Two days ago in the evening:

There is nothing I need to do.
Everything just is.

Series of convulsion like raptures.

From then on the state of no-self has been seamless.

"

Sweet. Sounds so simple

"Sweet. Sounds so simple "

And getting more simple all the time )

How do I know that I exist?

I know sensations exist as they come and go like a wind.

There is knowing like moisture in the air

Other than that I do not know.

"
Out of curiosity I have tried to sense people in a tram a couple of times. My inner body is suddenly full of vibrations that I can feel quite clearly. The vibrations are sometimes harsh, especially around certain energy centres. I have even less possibilities to verify if this experience is genuine or not and I do not feel comfortable doing it as it feels like invading their privacy.

As all emotions are vibrations of the inner body and we are continuously affecting each other through them whether we realize it or not, I think it is quite natural that after certain level of sensitivity has developed, one can sense other people's energy fields also on a vibrational level. Actually I would be surprised if many yogis on this forum wouldn't be able to do the same.

"


Right. I learned do that with people as well as with spirits.

Antero, can you illuminate any differences between the "why not work" of post 48 and the surrender of post 49? I have been going around in circles on this "why not just benefit others" perspective.

"
Right. I learned do that with people as well as with spirits.

-AlexWeith

"

Would you like to share how do you do it? What kind of contact you get with people and how is it different with spirits?

"Antero, can you illuminate any differences between the "why not work" of post 48 and the surrender of post 49? I have been going around in circles on this "why not just benefit others" perspective.

- Orasis"

Just a couple of months ago I had a clear feeling that my life lacks purpose and meaning unless I somehow start helping other people. My job felt pointless and I imagined major changes in my life to make me more useful for the society.

Now recently this seems to be changing. All sensations and thoughts have the same taste and everything has started to feel the same for me. There are no mind states, just spacious version of equanimity and all my passions seem to be gone. I think last weekend I encountered the negative nihilistic side of this state (post #48), before things opened up for me (post #49).

Now that I lately do not get anything from helping other people (good vibes, feeling good, etc.) there does not seem to be any major drive for helping. However helping others and relieving their suffering seems the most natural thing to do, almost like some default setting. I do not feel compassion and metta anymore, but judging from my thoughts and actions it would seem from the outside that I still feel the same way. How that is possible, I have no idea.

I am curious to hear is this making any sense to you or anyone else? How do you feel about helping other people?

"I am curious to hear is this making any sense to you or anyone else? How do you feel about helping other people?

"

- It sounds like you achieved what you came for.

- Helping other people is a two sided sword, because the helper needs someone who needs him, so the helped one is kind of brought into a role of needing help, (to help the helper ) in this way there is a kind of codependency created that fixes both in roles that do not provide enough space for real development for both. having that said I think your lack of compassion and metta seems to be a good foundation to deliver real help. (I say this beeing 15 years a professional helper).

- It also sounds like you could need something new happen in your life that stimulates and inspires your talents and skills. I know this sounds probably like a kind of blasphemy/profanity in a budhhist environment . You invested a lot of time and effort and it seems that you have achieved your goals. I heard of somebody who was told by his Zen-master after satori to go back into the world and earn a 100 million dollars (he did. another one was told to go out and dance all night instead of meditating, he said it was not easier). of course not for the money but for itself (and probably to give up a hindering concept).

Antero,
To answer your question about helping, I find that I'm most willing to help when I'm not thinking. When my mind isn't weighing out the options it does seem to arise naturally(helping). The more my mind settles and thoughts are less at the forefront, the more willing I am to help it seems. Without playing around with aversion or greed, spontaneity seems to move me to help. Instead of worrying if I'll look foolish, or considering what's in it for me, it just happens. I do get a "good feeling" as a result though. it's an "aren't I a nice guy" kind of thing, which I'm finding more and more disruptive to my default state. Somehow thoughts/feelings like this seem unpleasant to me lately.
A question for you, which stage are you at? I'm assuming 8, I'm trying to get a handle on what the stages entail and how they match up with other traditions. If you've already stated this and I missed it sorry.
Thanks.

"Would you like to share how do you do it? What kind of contact you get with people and how is it different with spirits?"


When you can feel a kind of electro-magnetic field between your palms when you move them closer (about one foot away from each other), you can learn to feel the energy of large trees and human beings. During meditation, you can also starts to sense your whole body and then extend this awareness to the cushion, the floor, the walls and the furniture. As strange as it may sound, we soon become able to sense the room as an extension of the body, or the body as an object amongst other objects. In the course of everyday life, we then become able to extend our awareness and fell other people as we feel our own body during vipassana. With practice, we may become able to pick up their general mood, and in a way feel their emotions or know what they are about to say before the express it.

With spirits, it works in a similar way. A spirit or deity is evoked through prayers and/or ritual and is then experenced as a presence before us. We may then invite it within our aura (invocation, arising as the yidam, ritual possession). As a result, the body may shake or jerk a bit and we start experiencing being another person, with emotions and feelings alien to our normal experience. We also learn how to see and communicate with them, hearing their voice as something similar yet distinct from normal thoughts.

"
When you can feel a kind of electro-magnetic field between your palms when you move them closer (about one foot away from each other), you can learn to feel the energy of large trees and human beings. During meditation, you can also starts to sense your whole body and then extend this awareness to the cushion, the floor, the walls and the furniture. As strange as it may sound, we soon become able to sense the room as an extension of the body, or the body as an object amongst other objects. In the course of everyday life, we then become able to extend our awareness and fell other people as we feel our own body during vipassana. With practice, we may become able to pick up their general mood, and in a way feel their emotions or know what they are about to say before the express it.
"

I have a blind friend who can sense things in this way, but I'm not sure whether it's the same phenomenon. She has absolutely no concept of vision at all (blind from birth), but feels her surroundings, and is unusually sensitive to the mind-states of other people. However her capabilities stem partly from anxiety, needing to know exactly what's going on around her, not insight. She is a very anxious person. I'm just wondering whether people who've never practiced insight, who might in fact be acutely sensitive in ways that make it hard for them to function, could have similar capabilities, or whether their experiences are unrelated to what you're describing here.

Interesting discussion, let us start a new thread to explore this subject further:

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4736366/Remote+Sensing

Imagine a train trip. Lets say you have finished your work and are commuting home for half an hour. You have taken care of everything you needed to do that day and you can sit down, breath deeply and relax. The phone is not ringing. There is no need to think about anything special, so you don't think. The scenery is changing and people are getting on and off the train. You have not yet arrived at your destination, so you can just sit and watch the life go by, like from the only fixed point in the universe.

Imagine your whole life could be like that train trip.

This is as accurate description of my current experience as I can manage. On and off the train

'Without playing around with aversion or greed, spontaneity seems to move me to help. Instead of worrying if I'll look foolish, or considering what's in it for me, it just happens. I do get a "good feeling" as a result though. it's an "aren't I a nice guy" kind of thing, which I'm finding more and more disruptive to my default state. Somehow thoughts/feelings like this seem unpleasant to me lately.'

- RevElev

I agree with you Rev, practice has been moving towards spontaneity for me too lately. I would say that what you have discovered the '˜stink of self-importance'. It seems to become obvious as our practice moves on.

'A question for you, which stage are you at? I'm assuming 8, I'm trying to get a handle on what the stages entail and how they match up with other traditions.'

- RevElev


I have probably gone past the event horizon of Eight Stage by now. It appears to me that I am going through very similar phases what Nikolai and Owen have reported in their practice threads. The practice has been deepening all the time during the past couple of months and I have no reason to believe that the deepening would be over. In fact, the way it appears to me at the moment it could very well go on for ever and if one defines the 8th Stage as the endpoint after which development is no longer possible, I probably will never be there.

The experience of no-self is seamless which means that in normal circumstances I get no reactions in difficult and otherwise unwanted situations. What I am seeing though is bursts of vibrations at different energy centres but there is no longer any self-consciousness involved in these situations, just no-self experiencing them.

I have also found a new way of experiencing those vibrations. If I so choose, I may see those events as very fast switching of attention back and forth between the object and the third eye. Like the mind would still try to filter all the sensations through the imaginary location of self. I think I am for the first time clearly seeing what I have heard others call the attention bounce. When the vibrations are gone, bouncing and sampling does not happen anymore and reality is again experienced clearly.

"Imagine your whole life could be like that train trip.

This is as accurate description of my current experience as I can manage. On and off the train "

Very nice, with me it's still only during 'train trips' but that's already better than say a year ago.

I am going through interesting and slightly confusing times. The state of no self is continuous and feels very natural and normal and the lack of self-consciousness is very liberating in daily social situations. I am acting much more spontaneously and communicating more clearly. Lately there have also been moments of disorientation and confusion as well.

Some kind of shift took place two weeks ago that made the sense of agency go away. Now the honeymooning period seems to be over and is replaced by something different altogether. I am often getting very strong unpleasant vibrations at various energy centres and especially at the throat. At times unpleasantness gets so strong that it feels like I am ill. I can see how the vibrations consist of rapid bouncing of the attention and being those sensations (in direct mode sort of way) result in raptures that are no more trying to wrench my brains. The physical symptoms resemble some previous Dark Night sessions, except now there are no other components present that used to make social situations really awkward.

There was a training session at the judo club (where I teach) that I could have handled a lot more skilfully and later noticed the arising confusion in my mind. Clearly being good at handling kids were one pillar of identity that I have built over the years and my actions were in conflict with this image. This self image was no longer necessary for me and some mental creation was crumbling to peaces.

I used to access unitive non-dual states of mind by paying attention to the fact that when looking around there is a sense of seeing objects outside of 'me', but it might as well be the other way around and one could say that the environment is also looking at me. The perspective would shift and I would see myself from the outside. This used to result in a state of luminous absorption where I was just a speck of attention suspended in space of bright light and acceptance, merging with the absolute.


Now doing the same exercise results in a different experience. No shift in perspective takes place, no inside / outside division seem to exits and no expansion is necessary as the attention is wide already. The mind will not fall into a state of deep absorption. There is no reference point in this vastness, no being or sense of agency, nothing that I could call "the knower". Space is luminous and knowing happens.

Do you have any residual vibrations left, like you mentioned on post 64?

Can you still sense other people on the trams at this point? How has that changed, if at all? If yes, are they like the residual vibrations, or are they something else?

"Do you have any residual vibrations left, like you mentioned on post 64?

Can you still sense other people on the trams at this point? How has that changed, if at all? If yes, are they like the residual vibrations, or are they something else?
- beoman"

Hi beoman, I still have the same ability to feel the other people's vibrations (or script the experience, who knows) if I want to, there is no change in that. The vibrations are similar in nature to what I experience when I am burning through the residual stuff causing me harsh vibrations mostly at the throat.

Summing up my recent experiences

* At times it feels like I am experiencing everything through a cloud of fog. This is usually accompanied with harsh vibrations and the return of the attention bounce. When the sky is clear again, the experience is again remarkably pure and clean.

* No sense of agency, state of no-self feels natural

* No emotions or mind states, except when sitting with another yogi

* Cannot go into a state of deep absorption, except when sitting with another yogi

* Self referemcing thoughts still arise from time to time. They die in mid air or are immediately seen as utterly ridiculous.

* At times I am confronted with a conflict between a preconcieved idea of 'myself' for example I think I am good solving particular problems. When I fail it feels like a rug is pulled from under my feet as I see how absurd the notion was in the first place. For a while there is a feeling of disorientation and unpleasant body sensations, until all of it is let go of.

* If I deliberately try to think of my identity or self image, the mind smoothly goes around it and dodges the whole notion.

* There is exceptionally little tension in the body. This makes it easy to fall asleep with the awareness wide awake or experience various states at the border of awake / sleeping.

"* If I deliberately try to think of my identity or self image, the mind smoothly goes around it and dodges the whole notion."

This.

"- It also sounds like you could need something new happen in your life that stimulates and inspires your talents and skills. I know this sounds probably like a kind of blasphemy/profanity in a budhhist environment . You invested a lot of time and effort and it seems that you have achieved your goals.

- LocoAustriaco"

I think you are right, Loco. I got what I came here for and I feel in my gut that sooner or later all sorts of things will change in my life. I have been thinking this a lot lately and my priorities in life are certainly different now. One apparent recent development is that I seem to be drawn to situations that I used to find uncomfortable or even frightening, testing my new limits.

Residual vibrations come and go as they please but otherwise life flows by without bumps in a state of wonder. There seems to be an endless reservoir of identities and other habitual junk that needs to be thrown out of the window. It has started to dawn to me that although the latest shift did away with the self that was causing all the suffering, it did not magically clean up all the mess that I have left behind with my unskilful actions in the past. It will probably take years to sort through that pile of thrash.

Despite my efforts, it does not seem to be possible for me to view my self the same way as before. It is almost like some mechanism that allows the mind to bend on itself is missing. It is hard to make comparisons as it is not easy to remember how the mind operated before. This new way of experiencing feels like the only natural and sensible way and that makes me disqualified to make any objective evaluation.

(Cont.)

Everyday life does not seem to challenge me anymore and it can hardly be said that my current life situation would put me in positions where I could test the limits of my condition. For all I know, some unexpected tragic event or a really tough situation could throw me out of balance and good bye equanimity! So before it has really been put to test it is too early to start calling it anything at all. I will let the time pass and continue to report my findings and I think this way we will be able to explore this territory together and make adjustment to the maps if needed.

Antero, given you have reached your meditation goals, do you have any interest in exploring the siddhis?

"Antero, given you have reached your meditation goals, do you have any interest in exploring the siddhis?

- JohnFerguson"

Actually before the last shift I had planned a mini solo retreat to try out what this mind could do. I have the impression that developing siddhis normally require boosting up the concentration levels with sustained absorption practice. At the moment I seem to be incapable of getting into states of deep absorption and that may make learning siddhis difficult, so I have postponed that plan for the time being.

To prepare myself for the winter, I have started to do Tummo practice in the mornings according to LocoAustiaco's instructions on the Tummo thread, but I don't think raising one's body temperature counts as a real siddhi .