There is no spoon

I have decided to join the ranks of those documenting their practice, after deliberating (a lot!) on the best way to do it. But at the root of it all, I am doing this to allow experienced practitioners to follow my progress if they choose to, and comment on it if they choose to, without my getting in the way too much, so this thread seems the most frictionless way to do that. And I really welcome help as, right now, I seem to be driven to reach stream entry notwithstanding the practice challenges I have with huge job commitments, huge family commitments, and no time do do a retreat.

So if you have been following along, my practice reached kind of a threshold in November as documented in my "Frustration and Deliverance" thread ( kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/34...tion+and+deliverance ). During the holidays, my practice dwindled to virtually nil, and so these last few weeks have been spent trying to recover lost ground. I don't seem to be as focused as I had been, and I find myself again fretting, ever so slightly, where I am on the Path.

I'll jump in with my sit last night, 40m starting with breath counting and then moving on to vipassana. After 2 cycles of 10, I felt I reached access concentration, and moved to feeling my body resonating with my internal pulse. Generally, I followed my pulse or my breath during the entire sit, only getting lost in a brain loop a couple of times. As is typical these days, I felt many "rapture waves", these electric shivers washing over my arms and upper body. I also felt cycles of contraction, bearing down, and what can best be described as "quickening". The relaxation phase after these was not as pronounced as the contractions, but once or twice there was a period of deep calm, and I could just lightly notice my breath on my upper lip. There were so many rapture waves, that I felt it important to try and watch them closely, vaguely feeling that I should be noticing their start/stop, but after the sit wrote to myself that I could have done a much better job of that.

I have been writing down notes on my last bunch of sits, but rather than type them here, I'll summarize by saying that this sit is the first in a while where I have been able to cultivate enough stillness to watch my pulse. Also, I resolved prior to this sit to be more precise in what I was observing as the last couple of weeks seem to have been more about "choiceless awareness", which is too unstructured for me. And lastly, note that I am not very good at noting, and I honestly don't know if that is a bad thing, or just a thing.

Nice.
The sit you described -- I've been getting close to what you are describing. I don't think my waves of chills or rapture are as strong or as constant as yours were, but there is more and more of such stuff in many of my sits. It's like we've unlocked a "rapture box" and as long as we practice intently it may open up more and more and stay open. If we quit - the box will close.
I don't know what the rapture has to do with stream entry exactly. But, it certainly makes me feel llike I am doing something right, you know?

"Also, I resolved prior to this sit to be more precise in what I was observing as the last couple of weeks seem to have been more about "choiceless awareness", which is too unstructured for me. And lastly, note that I am not very good at noting, and I honestly don't know if that is a bad thing, or just a thing."

Thanks for starting this thread. You've already posted some really good stuff.

What is it about "noting" that you find difficult? Just curious. The part of noting that's important, in my view anyway, is the "noticing". You're doing a good job of noticing what's happening, and that's what really matters. As Ajahn Chah used to say, "Know, then let go." That's the heart of vipassana in a nutshell. I wouldn't worry too much about the actual mental noting/labeling if it doesn't come naturally to you. Just stick to noticing whatever arises in the moment and let letting it go in order to notice whatever comes next.

~Jackson

Tomo, welcome to the Club of Online Practice Journalers! It's nice to have you.

"What is it about "noting" that you find difficult? Just curious. The part of noting that's important, in my view anyway, is the "noticing". You're doing a good job of noticing what's happening, and that's what really matters. As Ajahn Chah used to say, "Know, then let go." That's the heart of vipassana in a nutshell. I wouldn't worry too much about the actual mental noting/labeling if it doesn't come naturally to you. Just stick to noticing whatever arises in the moment and let letting it go in order to notice whatever comes next."

It is not just the labelling (but that is part of it). I just don't seem to be able to muster a "shooting aliens" mentality, to use MCTB terminology. Yes, I clearly notice stuff, but is it indeed a "good job". Should I be, literally, noticing things millisecond by millisecond to achieve the level of focus and precision necessary to take me to the next level?

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Tomo, welcome to the Club of Online Practice Journalers! It's nice to have you.

"

I hope my Dharma Decoder Ring is in the mail.

Yes, and the first message will be "Remember to eat your Ovaltine."

"Should I be, literally, noticing things millisecond by millisecond to achieve the level of focus and precision necessary to take me to the next level?"

Gosh, I hate to see people agonize over this noting stuff. When I would sit doing vipassana pre-stream entry I would just calmly pay attention to what was going on. What worked best as it turned out was taking things in shorter snippets. Observe one thing very closely: a bird's chirp. A dog's bark. A door closing. A whistle. A car horn. What happens as you process that signal? How many little bits of the processing of that object can you observe, and what are those bits made of?

Watch for transitions. Watch for the physical versus the mental aspects. Can you observe those separately?

That's really all you need to do, IMHO.

Oh, and what gets you "to the next level" is the insights you obtain about the process of observing, the processing of sensory inputs, sights, sounds, feelings, mental objects, and the like. Look up or read about what the Buddha called "dependent origination." That's the key thing - this is the detailed, sometimes exacting exploration of how your senses and mind work. I always preferred quality over quantity, and in my experience trying to note everything *all the time* was way too much, way too soon.

And as I've said before, MCTB is written by an arahat from an arahat's POV. Please keep that in mind as you try to imitate it

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Chris' above recommendations are solid.

For me, the "shooting aliens" mentality comes in handy sometimes, particularly when in the "3 Characteristics" stage. But after that, it was never very helpful to me.

Just do your best to notice the sensations of your experience from moment to moment without getting caught up in the drama.

That's all. "Know, then let go." Notice and move on.

~Jackson

It seems to me that what makes vipassana effective are things like dedication, continuity, systematicity, and thoroughness (edit: also, equanimity! and balancing effort and concentration.). Noting at light speed is one way to achieve that but not the only way.

For a vipassana technique more along the lines of what Chris advocates, check out Shinzen Young's advice for how to do vipassana:

shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/How%20to%20Note%20and%20Label.pdf

In my experience, sometimes doing very fast noting seems to be the best technique, and at other times taking a more leisurely, absorptive pace works better. Might be worthwhile to experiment with different flavors of vipassana to see what works best in what conditions (which itself is kind of a meta-vipassana I guess!)

Also, I think a really invaluable technique in vipassana is to remember to apply it ruthlessly to everything in your field of experience, including your sense of yourself evaluating and controlling the course of your practice. If during practice you become worried or doubtful that you are applying the technique correctly, then try applying the technique to these worries and doubts themselves and see what happens.

"For a vipassana technique more along the lines of what Chris advocates, check out Shinzen Young's advice for how to do vipassana:
"

Thank you for bringing Shinzen Young into this. His The Science of Enlightenment really spoke to me, and I have had it as a to-do to seriously absorb his various practice snippets and reconcile them with MCTB and Gears.

Hell of a difference between shooting aliens and 4-6 seconds between notes!

Thanks for the initial feedback friends...let's see what develops tonight.

Another 40m sit, not worrying about noting frequency but just staying with the breath. Again I was greeted by many "rapture waves", but eventually, towards the end of the sit, I was able to get a sustained period of stillness, lightness of breath, calm.

But a thought occurred to me. In past sits, I was beginning to notice that, if I got lost in a mind loop for a short period, upon returning to the breath I often got a pretty strong rapture wave, almost as though I was excited to be back on track. I need to investigate more, but it almost seems like there might be a tiny thought preceding many of my rapture waves, the implication being of course that if I can keep even more focused and not get engaged in even the tiniest of thoughts, the rapture will cease.

Dunno.

"... seems like there might be a tiny thought preceding many of my rapture waves, the implication being of course that if I can keep even more focused and not get engaged in even the tiniest of thoughts, the rapture will cease."-Tomo

Hi Tomo,

Raptures are state specific. Using the rainbow analogy, raptures are likely to occur when you are moving through, let's say, the red and green layers. They don't happen in other layers, and they are neither good nor bad; they're just part of the landscape you happen to be moving through during one part of your sitting.

Rather than trying to micromanage your experience by noting in a particular way, think in terms of moving up and down through all the territory (colored layers, in the rainbow analogy) available to you during each sitting. This happens as a result of balancing concentration and investigation. Over time, more and more territory opens up. It's a matter of creating the conditions for an organic process of growth rather than finding the secret key or "doing it exactly right." Progress in developmental mediation is rarely quick, so patience (khanti), one of the ten perfections of buddhahood, is a powerful ally in living a sane and happy life while working toward enlightenment. I know how hard it is to trust that this is working; progress that comes over months and years leaves open plenty of room for doubt. But, if you think back to when you first began meditating and compare today's situation to that instead of comparing today's sitting to last week's, you'll see the you've come a very long way. You are doing it right and you are seeing results.

"Shooting aliens" vs. noting every 4-6 seconds is also state and stage specific. Better to cultivate an instinct for noting/noticing in a way that is appropriate to the situation than to hang your hat upon any one technique.

Kenneth

Thanks. That will take a bit of time to digest. But, related to rainbows, I am noticing that I don't really see the progression through strata during each sit that others do. Is this just a function of my pre-se level?

"Thanks. That will take a bit of time to digest. But, related to rainbows, I am noticing that I don't really see the progression through strata during each sit that others do. Is this just a function of my pre-se level?" -Tomo

Yes, it gets much clearer after stream entry. For me, the shift was very abrupt. The day before stream entry, although I was aware of the maps, my actual experience was a chaotic jumble. Immediately after stream entry, I could see distinct strata of mind, identify their unique characteristics, and even hop effortlessly between them at the speed of thought. In one moment, the stratified nature of mind moved from the realm of theory into my direct, lived experience. This change in perceptual acuity was one of the main things that convinced me that I had indeed attained stream entry on that day in 1992 in Malaysia. The Buddhists say that after stream entry one of the things you leave behind is "skeptical doubt" in the teachings of the buddha. I agree with this.

Kenneth

Tonight, 45m starting with about 10 minutes of hand-motion vipassana. I picked this because a sick child over the last week has really drained my batteries, and last night's sit had me nearly nodding off more than once. This way I can get concentrated while actually moving around a bit. Moved to breath watching, then just sitting. I made a concerted effort this time around to not micromanage my experience, nor strive for rapture waves or stillness. I listened, I felt, I tried to just be. Yes, rapture waves came and went, and I tried to look a little bit more closely at them and where they sourced from (seemingly low down in my torso). I got lost in thought once, but was actually otherwise present for the duration.

Nothing really remarkable happened, and I was ok with that.

40m this morning was spent in a "less concentrated" state than I have been these last few days, mostly because I had thoughts swirling in my head from a long conversation I had last night. Some recall, some "planning" future conversations (gah!). But what I brought to this sit was...no sweat. Yes, I was "treated" to a flurry of thoughts, but I tried not to get engaged and to simply watch them, dismiss them, and move on. "Just be here" is what I am working on these days.

I did get rapture waves, as seems very common now, though not as intense as other sits. This time, I tried really hard to watch them and discover their source and their motion. For very weak waves, they seem to radiate from my spine outwards, like a sheet of electricity or shiver. Not cold shiver, mind you. For stronger waves, they kind of start low down, move up my spine, and then radiate outward. I didn't have a lot of those, so I did not get to penetrate the origin as well. I also noticed, for the first time (because I was looking?), that all of these waves were synched with the out breath, with the shiver happening at the bottom of the exhalation. I don't know for sure, but I think this was also happening for the more intense waves too in other sits.

Something to look forward to.

Second 40m sit tonight where I was able to spend a large part of the time well concentrated. Most of the time, I had the "rapture wave" sensations, which afforded me the opportunity to watch them quite fully. Indeed, they are synched with my out breath, starting in the pit of my stomach at the bottom of the exhale, then quickly moves up my spine, along my arms, and "out" my fingers. The feeling is "electric", and my fingers buzz like when they have gone to sleep. I could watch this cycling along, and since I had my hands in a mudra tonight, it made a neat little circuit.

There were several periods of calm thrown in, but rather than bliss out I tried to investigate it too, noticing the blips and blurps that even my very light breathing induced in this "stillness".

More interestingly, the last five minutes or so were spent what I would guess was a pretty hard jhana. I didn't intend that to happen, but the raptures became really intense and no longer limited to the out breath. Additionally, my "head space" seemed to be big, as though I were in a large, dark room. I kept my attention on the raptures...they were really buzzing...and I spent some time actively noting the pulsing of the more prominent vibrations. It was pretty chaotic.

Wanting to keep investigating this, there came the dukkha moment as I coughed, lost the edge, and seconds later the bell rang. Oh well, there is tomorrow.

A gift of an hour quiet time, where I had hoped to continue the momentum of the last sit. Instead, anger, raw nerves, some concentration but for the most part, the "s" in this sit was not going to be samadhi but rather sila. Analyzing the source of my anger and hurt, where was the nub that started the process that, of course, resulted in less than "right speech" on my part? The anger diffuses as I analyze it, but then playing out "future" conversations just starts it back up. And if I had a better grasp of "not self" would I have played the same role in the drama?

I would have preferred to "grow" in a different direction tonight.

Somewhat back on track, the last few sits have been a little bit shorter (20-30m). Nonetheless, I am surprised at how quickly I am able to get to the stage where I am feeling rapture waves. I would guess that is within about 5 minutes. I am also not always starting with breath counting now. When I sit down and take the first few breaths, I am able to gauge my level of distractedness, and only resort to counting if I am particularly scattered. Otherwise I simply start to watch my breath at the nostrils or, occasionally, at my abdomen.

Last night, I deliberately sat in a room that had a loud clock ticking so that, in addition to my breath, there was some external stimulus that was always there. If I no longer heard or felt the ticking, then I was somewhere else, and noticed it pretty quickly. I also had a vague sense of going through some of the stages last night, up to Disgust where I suddenly had this strong vision of me sitting in a meditation hall and puking. Weird.

The other thing I have started to investigate is what I am "seeing". Generally, I am not getting any of the elaborate visualizations described in MCTB. Instead, when I see anything, I am getting amorphous blobs that move through my field. They kind of look like aurora, curtains of light strobing. Or sometimes, the strobing will be in concentric "round things" (not precisely circular), either strobing inwards or outwards. I have yet to find a sensation that determines what direction it goes in. If I don't see anything like that, I see "nothing" but I am now really noticing that it is not nothing but more like TV snow, back in the day when there was no cable. Like snow pixels, they are constantly in flux and, from time to time, one of them will go supernova and really grab my attention because it is so much brighter than the rest. Often, as I try and penetrate this, I will have quite strong raptures.

Nice to hear all that.
Are you noticing your breath the entire sit or do you note other sensations as well?

"Are you noticing your breath the entire sit or do you note other sensations as well? "

Right now, my breath is the "go to" thing in the absence of anything else. But I am trying hard not to be totally random, a la choiceless awareness, so I tend to now only divert to really strong stuff. For example, when the raptures come, I will try and focus on them and note where they begin and end, and how they propagate. There was a sit last week where doing that seemed to trigger a major rapture, which I had then intended to investigate. Also, I am now trying harder to notice the nothingness in front of my eyes, to see where that leads. I hope to get back soon to the stillness that I had been experiencing, because I want to look hard at that and see how "not still" it really is.

And to suggest that I am not still lost in thought from time to time would be misleading. But it is rarely for more than a breath or two.

Hi Tomo,

The lights and raptures are characteristic of the 4th ñana, Knowledge of the Arising and Passing of Phenomena. This is also 2nd jhana territory. As you know, this is arguably the most important of milestones because it shows that you have truly penetrated the objects of awareness and are doing "true vipassana."

"To suggest that I am not still lost in thought from time to time would be misleading. But it is rarely for more than a breath or two."-Tomo

Good insight. If you imagined that you were spending more than a moment or two on an object without the mind wandering, I would say you are missing something. To see that the mind is wandering requires a high degree of attention.

"I hope to get back soon to the stillness that I had been experiencing, because I want to look hard at that and see how "not still" it really is."-Tomo

The right experience for you to be having in any moment is the experience you are having in that moment. You can only investigate what is in front of you. If you wish for some other experience, just note "wishing," drop it and go back to your primary breath object. If you notice anxiety, note "anxiety," and see if you can identify the sensations that comprise anxiety. In this way, anxiety itself becomes your object of meditation, and therefore an ally in your awakening.

"Generally, I am not getting any of the elaborate visualizations described in MCTB."-Tomo

These phenomena vary greatly from one individual to another. Daniel described his own experiences in MCTB. His experience does not match mine or any of the many other students with whom I have worked. Each yogi is unique. Don't try to have experiences other than the ones that spontaneously arise; that would be like pushing on a string. Your experiences are your own, and are as valid as anyone's.

Kenneth