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There is no spoon

  • tomotvos
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15 years 4 months ago #55583 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
Three sits so far today, 30-40m each and, for each, I resolved to have a fruition if possible. In all cases, I found that I had to work a bit to get concentrated unlike, say, last week where I pretty much sat down to A&P. Nonetheless, all sits ended up very "present" and I was able to attend to the usual vibrations and sensations. The first two sits were otherwise uneventful, although in sit 2, there was a point where I got a sensation of being pulled, then falling. I felt that if I could just "let go" a bit more, something might happen. I tried to completely surrender, but it didn't resolve into anything.

In sit 3, I was watching nothing in particular -- exactly what, I don't recall -- where I was met with a "head bob". Immediately preceding it, I felt tension building in my crown, and immediately after all tension was gone and a wave of relaxation passed over me. This felt like the "falling asleep" thing I mentioned yesterday, but I was most decidedly not sleepy. "Blip" would be the word! Note that this did not have a visual black-out, just a skip in my mental LP.

Later in sit 3, I had a sudden whoosh of blackness (not black out) and pressure build in my forehead that, literally, pushed my head forward and down somewhat. I noted and watch, and then...whoosh...release, followed by, literally, my head being pushed back up. If someone saw that, they probably would have been dialing 1-800-EXORCIST in no time. Finally, sit 3 also had a falling episode where, again, I tried to surrender to it. But again, nothing.
  • telecaster
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15 years 4 months ago #55584 by telecaster
Replied by telecaster on topic RE: There is no spoon
I got involuntary head movements, sometimes quite extreme, before equanimity and then, lately, they came back when I started getting fruitions. My head will fall and then surge back up, it will twist violently, it will straighten from the crown up. Often these movments are accompanied by shouts and grunts.
  • tomotvos
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #55585 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
I missed two days of sitting, and so I just squeezed in 40m at my desk. Things I remember: sleepiness, fear, anxiety, anticipation. I was often noting stuff in my headspace, but equally often in my body. Add to that a few nice little daydreams. No raptures, or anything else I might even remotely mistake for a fruition.
  • tomotvos
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #55586 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
My last few sits have been missing a sense of...engagement. It is like I really have to work at staying with the noting, or following the breath. I will end up in a equanimous state eventually, but it seems to be by a roundabout route. No raptures for several sits now. If I did get SE, might this be the beginning of road to the second Path? I feel as though I need to "get back to basics", as though I am drifting.
  • tomotvos
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15 years 4 months ago #55587 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
A back-to-basics sit seems to be typical of my practice at the moment. Starting with noting out loud for a good 5 or so minutes, trying to arrive at a point where breath became easy to stay with. I recall noting breath, then the very clear, fast, vibrations in the visual field, but as I tried to focus on the start/stop of those vibrations, I felt I had lost the skill to do so. The sit felt immature, with no raptures or typical jhanic events. Hmmm, am I back at the beginning of the ride again, or am I still on the first lap and just being spanked for jumping the gun on where I really was?
  • tomotvos
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #55588 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
I sat today with the intention to deliberately see what might be open to me, assuming I was on a new Path. Since jhanas worked well for me in the past, I started there.

I found that J1 was quite easily accessible, sharp and narrow, and with some more effort than I recall having to do in the past, I was able to maintain concentration and move up to J2, with its mild body raptures. There I seemed to flounder, and no amount of willing my mind could get me to transition to J3. I fell back to noting, rising and falling, and the core pulsing in my body being my focus of attention, but tingling in my hands and several short mind loops were "features". I recall eventually noting thoughts quite quickly, especially mental images, before they became more fully formed and powerful. And soon after, I found myself in equanimity.

A flat, wide visual field, no lava lamp blobs. And a very clear flickering of the whole field, like that bad computer monitor. I was able to stay with that flickering a good long time, trying to "feel" it and become synchronized with it. I could correlate the flickering with some other sensation in my head that I could not localize, and it was very fast, much faster than my heart rate.

I felt really locked into this mode, while still being aware of stuff around me, including several chipmunks chattering back and forth. Sometimes there chirps seemed to bounce into me, and I could feel the physical effect of the sound in my body as it dissipated quickly.

While I stayed like this for at least 10 minutes or more, it did not develop further and the bell rang.
  • tomotvos
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #55589 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
For me, every sit is now a struggle: a struggle to get concentrated, a struggle to note, a struggle to get anywhere near equanimity which, usually, I do not. It feels like I am literally back at square one. Nothing has changed except that so, to me, I very clearly do not have stream entry, which is both annoying in and of itself, as well as because I openly suggested otherwise.

Heaps of frustration, heaps of doubt.

I will hold off posting more here until I can get a handle on things, as repeated negativity doesn't help anyone, and I would rather not have the pressure of worrying about what I am going to say messing me up even further.
  • brianm2
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #55590 by brianm2
Replied by brianm2 on topic RE: There is no spoon
tom, best of luck. I know what you are going through. I go through it all the time. Wanting to meditate 'well' or to attain something or other. It's not just in meditation, but in any walk of life.

When I play basketball, I can get frustrated if I focus too much on making jump shots. I am much better off if I focus on *how* I shoot and then accept whatever the outcome is, knowing I did my best and the rest is up to things out of my hands. And the irony of it is that this focus on *process* rather than *outcome* actually leads to the better outcomes that I originally wanted so badly...

The classic example is of the archer. But it also applies to basketball, and also to meditation.

"Epictetus used the metaphor of an archer to describe how one achieves this virtue. The Stoic archer strives to shoot excellently, and will not be disappointed if he shoots well, even if he doesn't win the competition.

For most archers in a contest, the goal is to win. However, there will be times when an excellent archer shoots well and still - for reasons beyond his control, such as a sudden gust of wind, or a particularly inspired performance by one of his opponents fails to win. A non-stoic archer views this as a failure because he did not achieve the outcome he intended; whereas a stoic archer views it as a success because he shot well. The stoic is focused on performance not outcome."

"The Need to Win

Chaing Tsu [5th century BC Taoist]

When an archer shoots for nothing he has all his skill.
When he shoots for a brass buckle he is already nervous.
When he shoots for a prize of gold
He goes blind, or sees two targets.
His skill has not changed, but the prize divides him.
He cares.
He thinks more of winning than of shooting,
And the need to win drains him of power"

from www.psycharts.com/attachment-to-outcomes.html
  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #55591 by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: There is no spoon
"It feels like I am literally back at square one. Nothing has changed except that so, to me, I very clearly do not have stream entry, which is both annoying in and of itself, as well as because I openly suggested otherwise."-tomotvos

Well, if you got demoted, you are the first yogi I've seen that happen to. (I'm being facetious.) Maybe there is another explanation. Best to wait and see what happens next...

Self-diagnosis is a little tricky at this stage, so try to keep an open mind. You are doing great. Keep up the good work.
  • cmarti
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #55592 by cmarti
Replied by cmarti on topic RE: There is no spoon

This is the second time this morning I've encountered what appears to be resignation and defeat here on these boards. I have to tell you guys in all honesty, the path is sort of like being an alcoholic -- you have to realize you don't know anything before you can address that utterly flabbergasting fact effectively. I recall this point in my practice vividly. It's part of the deal. You have to experience these things that appear awful to you at the time you see them but be aware that they are part of the process. Have confidence in that.

I sheet you not.

  • tomotvos
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #55593 by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: There is no spoon
Thank you, everyone, for the encouragement.
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