There is no spoon

"Ripening."-tomotvos

Beautiful. Nothing further is required. When the fruit is ripe, it falls from the tree.

Eyes glued to this thread!!!

Keep on ripening Tom!!!!!

Awesome!

Nice one Tom, keep working diligently... but relax into it...

" Possibly related, I notice that now I can see, with my eyes open and looking upwards (in a zombie kind of way) or to the extreme left or right, vibrations around the edges.

Ripening."

look for the endings
gently

Two sits so far today, each 30m. Start with verbal noting to get myself settled, then focus on pulsing in body core to go deep. Stabilize in J1, where focus is very tight and precise, dark, uniform. Moving attention to third eye, begin to notice vibrations (flutters) in eyes. Occasionally am seeing wavering on edges of visual field, along with lava-lamp like blobs, but mostly, am noticing a thrumming in my head that is roughly of heart-rate frequency. Concentrating on thrumming, getting high-pitched sound in ears that turns out to not be a single frequency but has more complex harmonics. Scalp tightens, but can sense that that too is not constant but rather is a fairly fast vibration. Stay this way for duration of sits, with very little mental distractions. The odd time something pops in and I cannot immediately get back to where I was, I revert to J1 and stabilize there.

During this high degree of focus, I quite literally do not notice most of my body at all (breathing excepted).

Another chair session of 45m, where it took less than 5m of verbal noting to get to where I could focus on pulses and enter J1. After stabilizing my concentration there, I then focused on my third eye and began to note various vibrations: a roughly 5Hz twitchy physical thing, a slightly faster thrumming in my head only, like an engine idling, and a much faster but still discernible flickering like a bad computer monitor. I was able to stay with these for the remainder of the sit (!!!). Super focused. High-pitched sound in ears again, and the occasional sound from the house would startle and ring me like a bell for a few moments after.

While I can discern these things, the endings/passings/cessations remain elusive. I am just not sure what to look for.

But for now, I am giving a big FU to the cushion and using a chair posture until SE. Clearly I have broken my need to be classically "rooted".

huh
I ALWAYS sit in a chair, hate knee pain

I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing.

"I was able to stay with these for the remainder of the sit (!!!). Super focused."-tomotvos

OK, Tom, this looks great. Good technique, good momentum, good motivation. Steady as she goes.

One tweak: when you go into absorption, go into whichever jhana you happen to be moving through at the time. You don't have to single out the 1st jhana.

Kenneth

I have been holding off posting this until I had a better sense of what is going on. Since I don't have the latter, I am going to put this up there as possibly a good case study in an SE-fakeout, so you can read about it in more or less real-time.

I sat down last night with nothing but time on my hands. Now that I have no qualms about sitting in a chair, discomfort was no longer going to be an issue, and so I planned to just sit and get it done. I did set the timer for 90 minutes, but only to take a small break and get back into it.

Anyhow, the practice started as has been lately: some verbal noting, and then soon after pulsing and the third eye stuff. I found I was able to notice the different modes again: twitchy vibrations of the eyes and eyelids, a steady thrumming inside my head, and very quick fluttering of the visual field, usually limited to a specific spot. I also noticed that, generally, I could only notice one of those at a time. Because I was sitting for so long, thoughts did come and go but I was not engaged by them and I noted them away and went back to whatever I was looking at. Occasionally, the vibrations would be very pronounced in my fingers, and I would switch to them. I seemed to be able to watch much faster tingling in my fingers this time.

(...)

Sometimes I really had to hunt for the vibrations, which seemed wrong. Too much effort. I tried telecaster's "empty mind" thing, and maybe it helped. Eventually, I always got back to something.

Then very suddenly, there was a tremendous pressure in my chest, as though someone were sitting on it. It felt kind of like a rapture but 10x as strong. This pressure moved up quite rapidly into my head, and the tension up there was huge. Jaws clenched, it felt as though my head were being stretched. I thought "holy crap, is this it?", but then quickly just went back to noting all the sensations: the pressure, the pulsations, the chaotic visual stuff. Pressure, pulse, pressure. It lasted for a minute or two, and then quite rapidly it evaporated. In its wake was quiet, real quiet, crazy quiet. It seemed like a whole lot of chatter that used to be in my head was no longer there. I sat that way for another 10 minutes or so, during which the bell rang, but I kept sitting, loving the quiet bliss. I then got up, feeling kind of stoned.

So that is what happened. Here is what did NOT happen. A blip/discontinuity/cessation. It would be more accurately described as a mental orgasm, including the post-coital bliss afterwards. Even 30 minutes after, I still have a buzzed feeling in my head. WTF???

(...)

So that leaves me saying: WTF? Was this SE? If so, where is the cessation, as clearly none of these sits had one? At the end of last night, I did speak with Kenneth (so he does not know about today's sits) and the gist of it was that he seemed less concerned about the actual SE "event" and more about how I felt afterwards. Did I feel different? Did I feel like I was, temporarily, "off the ride"? Well, yes to the latter, but meh to the former. I don't feel significantly changed (yet). We did a jhana jumping meditation together, and the results were kind of mixed, although my jhana excursion today seemed more positive. Something very, very different happened last night, so I sorta, kinda, think that might have been it. But I WANT this to happen, so I have to temper my sorta-kinda. And Kenneth felt maybe, probably, this was SE but that, really, time will tell.

I will be doing a long sit again tonight, so we'll all have to wait and see.

Over.

Later this morning, 45m where, upon sitting down, I immediately got visual strobing. Several periods of the same pressure build in the crown, clear pulsation in my head. Disembed and watch, trying to note pulse, pulse, pulse. But as earlier, the wave just dissipated rather than "crested" into the crashing bliss.

So then I changed tacks, and started investigating jhanas. I zoomed into J1, very absorbed with close, tight focus. I stayed with it until I could feel a rapture building in my lower body and arms. It slowly engulfed me, followed by bliss and a feeling of "inflation". Recalling Kenneths cues, it did feel as though I was in touch with my whole skin, but maybe that was just scripting. But I stayed with that inflated sensation until I seemed to zoom into my head, but not tight like J1, it was much more spacious, and almost as soon as I "got there" I began to see strobing again. There followed several more pressure periods but, again, no great bliss wave. I got up from the sit feeling very stoned.

(...)

An hour later, I sat for another 60m. This time where I had multiple (3 or 4) surge/bliss sequences, with surge being only slightly less intense and the bliss being intensely jhana-like in the sense that I was totally absorbed, and totally NOT striving for anything. Just sitting. While similar to bliss I have experienced in the past, the main difference was the degree of bliss. 10x bliss. I also had a final surge that was a total body thing, head to toe. Intense.

This morning, 30m. I had a distinct body pulse right from the start, and easily focused onto body vibrations. Visual strobing and fluttering was more elusive. Then an energy surge starting at my crown, and then it felt as though my whole head was clenched, building into clear pulsation/vibration. The whole visual field was strobing with the pulsing, at a rate that was not too fast but certainly faster than my heart rate. I tried to disembed, but I was pretty engaged. Eventually, the surge waned, but this time without a dramatic release/bliss wave.

(...)

"So that leaves me saying: WTF? Was this SE? If so, where is the cessation, as clearly none of these sits had one? At the end of last night, I did speak with Kenneth (so he does not know about today's sits) and the gist of it was that he seemed less concerned about the actual SE "event" and more about how I felt afterwards. Did I feel different? Did I feel like I was, temporarily, "off the ride"? Well, yes to the latter, but meh to the former. I don't feel significantly changed (yet). We did a jhana jumping meditation together, and the results were kind of mixed, although my jhana excursion today seemed more positive. Something very, very different happened last night, so I sorta, kinda, think that might have been it. But I WANT this to happen, so I have to temper my sorta-kinda. And Kenneth felt maybe, probably, this was SE but that, really, time will tell.

I will be doing a long sit again tonight, so we'll all have to wait and see.

Over."

Eyes glued to this thread!!!!

Keep plugging away paths are always clearer with a little time... Metta to you...

This is a great story, Tom. It's all good news, no matter what. Stream entry is the most likely scenario at this point, but it will certainly become clearer over the next few days and weeks, one way or the other.

One important point I want to make for all of the other yogis reading this: if this turns out to be stream entry, we have to understand that the way it happened for Tom is not at all typical. The build-up of tension, etc., is NOT something I usually see in these situations. It is far more common for the Path moment to sneak up on the yogi with no warning whatsoever. I am writing this so that we don't get a rash of people reporting tension and release events and thinking that they are stream entry. There are many ways stream entry can manifest for individuals, but in 999 out of 1000 cases, a build-up and release of tension does not signify a Path moment. If you are meditating and you have such a build up, do not freak out and start spinning great yogi fantasies. Just keep noting and let it be whatever it is. (If you do freak out, just note "freaking out, freaking out.")

Your own practice will be as unique to you as Tom's is to him, so any kind of preconception you have about what is supposed to happen is only likely to slow you down. Keep noting!

Kenneth

Well, the story just keeps getting weirder. 90m tonight, starting immediately into body pulsing. Whatever else, it seems like when I sit down I am pretty much ready to go. But I chose to ignore the pulse, and just focus on the breath to see where that takes me. I noted the rising and falling, and all the little jogs and zigs and zags of the inhalation and exhalation. In between, I noted tingles in my hands.

It was a slow ride up, but eventually I found myself (where I have gotten much faster using the technique Kenneth showed me) seeing and feeling vibrations in my field of view. Details are murky right now, but what does stick with me is that at one point I was observing some vibration and the next moment I had this A&P rapture wave thing. Blip would, indeed, be the right word, as opposed to cessation, because it was subtle and fast. I'm not holding that out as anything significant, as I can't believe that is IT.

Anyhow, a short while later I got this body buzz, as in my whole body felt like it was literally BUZZING. I could note the individual vibrations, even though they were pretty swift. As that subsided, my visual field started to have a dark "hole", and I got the sensation of being slowing pulled into the hole by my forehead. The hole got bigger as it got "closer", and as I was getting pulled down into it things kept getting stiller. No visual lava lamp things, just kind of...nothing. And the way I was getting pulled, I'd bet that if I opened my eyes, my nose would have been pointing down and I would be looking into my lap. I felt absorbed by the stillness, and it was pretty damn cool. I recall a rapture wave at one point, but otherwise the details are indistinct. I wish there were a way to record this stuff.

Thanks Kenneth, important caveat. Everyone's journey is their own...

"Whatever else, it seems like when I sit down I am pretty much ready to go... It was a slow ride up, but eventually I found myself... seeing and feeling vibrations in my field of view... At one point I was observing some vibration and the next moment I had this A&P rapture wave thing. Blip would, indeed, be the right word, as opposed to cessation, because it was subtle and fast."-tomotvos

Great report, Tom. Finding yourself "ready to go" (at the A&P) immediately upon sitting down is consistent with stream entry, as is the experience of being deep in concentration while observing a subtle phenomenon like a vibration and suddenly finding yourself back at the A&P as if teleported there in an instant. The cessation is instantaneous, easily missed (it is not an experience per se, but merely the lack of experience for a moment), and you only know it happened by what comes next. In other words, the very fact that you were teleported from the 11th nana of equanimity to the 4th (Arising and Passing Away of Phenomena) is the sign that the fruition/cessation has occurred.

Please keep posting these detailed reports. Evidence is mounting.

Hot Dang!

Another one.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but you are doing something right. Congratulations (even if its a near miss).

You effort, as evidenced by your journal is unbroken and dilligent it would only follow that you would make progress. I wish you the very best.

Andrew

After missing yesterday due to family stuff, I was back at it this morning. In all honesty, it felt scattered, without a plan. Here is what I *could* do:

Immediately after sitting, I could feel vibrations in my hands, of differing frequencies superimposed on each other. Slow, heart rate, trivially easy. Faster, chaotic blips, sort of like twitches but my fingers weren't moving. Very fast buzzing in finger tips, where I could notice the buzz but too fast to actually see a single wave. But it took a minute or two to get my mind focused enough to get an A&P rapture. I was able to then start noticing various vibrations in the visual field, but my concentration on them was spotty, partly because I did not really know what I should be looking for if, indeed, I am now a stream entrant. I found my attention drawn away to various thoughts during this: planning, memories, worry, frustration. Some pressure build up in the crown, but nothing dramatic ensued.

But I continue to have doubts about SE because, as contrasted with other recent winners here, I don't feel different. I don't feel huge elation/joy. I am not buzzing with energy, and can sleep the whole night just fine. I don't feel frictionless with the world. And I am not unconditionally "accepting the truth of the dharma".

I don't want to sound overly pessimistic or negative, esp. since another call with Kenneth has him still pretty convinced I have SE. But I am just calling it like I see it. The upshot, however, is that pre- or post-SE, the practice remains the same. So it should not matter, even though to me it does.

"You effort, as evidenced by your journal is unbroken and dilligent it would only follow that you would make progress. I wish you the very best.
"

Thank you, Andrew.

And just to elaborate a bit on my last post, the reason why knowing exactly where I am (pre, or post) is so important is not because of some badge on my chest or notch on my belt. It is about validation. I still have doubt, notwithstanding maps, and other yogis' progress. It is like trying to find a restaurant in a foreign city. You may have the walking map, and so you think you can find it on your own. You may talk to locals who say, "ooh, baby, that is the best freakin' restaurant EVAR, just go this way" as they point their fingers indistinctly "that way". Then, you may have one or two locals that give more precise directions, including "walk 11 blocks, then turn right at the drugstore, and left at the liquor store". Well, until you actually pass that drugstore or liquor store, there will be a niggling feeling, "has that been 11 blocks?", or "was that liquor store first, then drugstore?".

But when you finally see that drugstore, you take that turn, your step becomes more brisk, and you walk to your final destination confident in your directions.

Know what I mean?

"just to elaborate a bit on my last post, ...Then, you may have one or two locals that give more precise directions, including "walk 11 blocks, then turn right at the drugstore, and left at the liquor store". Well, until you actually pass that drugstore or liquor store, there will be a niggling feeling, "has that been 11 blocks?", or "was that liquor store first, then drugstore?".

But when you finally see that drugstore, you take that turn, your step becomes more brisk, and you walk to your final destination confident in your directions.

Know what I mean?"

I know what you mean up until you might or might not have passed the drug store in question. However, you have been walking a long time. You have done it with the most focused effort and you have asked some pretty knowledgable people about directions. That's about the best way to go about this is. I have no doubt that you have either found or will find it soon. One day I will too.

Good luck.

Andrew

Sits yesterday and today continue to be a bit of a mixed bag. I am reluctantly admitting that, at a minimum, I sit down to almost instant concentration, with an A&P rapture coming within approximately a minute. Otherwise, though, I am trying to not expect much and simply watch what happens. One thing I am keeping an "eye" out for is strobing; I am noticing that stuff I see in my visual field has a high-frequency flicker, like the refresh rate on a monitor. I am trying to see that more clearly....uh...because.

Interesting that I happened to reach the section on "Stream-winner" last night, in "Saints and Psychopaths". Here is what Bill Hamilton has to say from the opening:


Stream-winner is the first level of enlightenment. I have never been satisfied by any of the descriptions of what changes occur as a result of attaining it. I doubt that I ever will because it is sort of like describing shifts in shades of grey. Also there is a wide variation in changes from individual to individual as the result of attaining any level of enlightenment. This makes clear definitive statements very difficult.


Amen, brother.

He then presents a variety of classical descriptions that you can tell he is not really buying into. I wonder if he will eventually get to what he really thinks.

"He [Bill Hamilton] then presents a variety of classical descriptions that you can tell he is not really buying into. I wonder if he will eventually get to what he really thinks."-tomotvos

He deputized me for that job! I'm trying! Bill's deathbed request was that I "finish" his book (which he hadn't yet started to write) entitled "Essential and Unessential Buddhism." I stopped short of agreeing to that, but as it turns out I have taken on a remarkably similar project.