Ron's Practice Journal

Things are returning to normal now off the cushion and though I'm spending longer in equanimity, my daily life is no longer so affected. I had a similar experience with DN. When I first broke across that territory it had a big impact on my overall mood in daily life, but then it seemed to settle and diminish. There is a repeat of that process here, and I'm even finding myself getting a bit bored with equanimity.

Well, "bored" probably isn't the right word. Instead of sneaking off to meditate for 3 hours a day, I'm putting in about 2 hours a day. It is amazing how long one can sit during this stage.

I'm noticing some of the finer points of this stage. As I come out of DN and into equanimity there is a real shift where the "static" of reobservation seems to resolve and I feel lighter. I say "resolve" because it doesn't really go away, rather it is as if I've been grinding gears in a car transmission and suddenly they slip into place. The little pains, pricks, itches and aches are all still present, but now they are all on the same frequency (?), or are operating together in a way that is not a problem. I can watch them and note, and it isn't a big deal. Then, as the stage matures, I feel some raptures similar to A&P and Dissolution. They come and go, lights, energy, coolness, aches, pricks, tingles, lights, energy... It is as if the prior stages are all coming together. Then I get to my current cutting edge, which is where things begin to flicker and pulse.

Ron,

Lately I've been experiencing some nausea spontaneously. It never leads to actual throwing up just gagging. It seems to be somehow related to what I'm concentrating on at the time. Seeing as you're as far along as you are, have you had any experience with this?

I have not experienced that during meditation, but I wonder if it is part of the experience for others. Could you give a little more information about what you are concentrating on and what happens before this? I'd bet that others are familiar with it.

Ron

"Ron,

Lately I've been experiencing some nausea spontaneously. It never leads to actual throwing up just gagging. It seems to be somehow related to what I'm concentrating on at the time. Seeing as you're as far along as you are, have you had any experience with this?"

Hey mumuwu,

Does it feel like a very bitter flow of sensations/vibrations that comes out the throat? For me, occasionally I get this and it as it comes on, it gets very intense and makes me feel slightly nauseous. But it lasts maybe 15 seconds max and the flow of vibrations shift to the brow and/or crown.

Yes. Except for the crown part. It typically occurs when I am noting a painful sensation.

Sounds like a Dark Night thing. There are a lot of little painful things that happen, especially during reobservation. I wonder if the nausea could be part of knowledge of disgust? Still, given where I'm at in my own development, speculation about where others are at is probably not helpful for you or me. Kenneth would be the go to person on this sort of question.

Mixing methods....

Despite topping out at equanimity, I've found myself being cranky and irritable lately. I remembered that when I practiced concentration meditation I was more patient and calm, overall my mood was more pleasant. So today I tried to mix concentration and insight together, and to focus more on concentration. I spent 45 minutes doing vipassana and then took a half hour break, switched over to concentration and stayed with that for about an hour. The interesting thing was that even though I wasn't noting and was simply concentrating on the breath, I still went through the insight stages, albeit more slowly. I was trying to get embedded in the pleasant sensation of the breath and noticed going through the stages and up into equanimity. My concentration in equanimity was very good. My mood seems to have improved so I'll try this same technique again tomorrow and see what happens.

Mixing methods continued...

So next I tried an hour of concentration before vipassana. This time I did not go through the insight stages during concentration. Also, I went through the insight stages much quicker when I switched over.

I continue to top out in equanimity. A funny thing is happening. The longer I sit in equanimity, the more concentration-like the stage feels. Noting goes to the background, and in the foreground is the sensation of calm and clarity. It just seems to be getting stronger at this point, as if I'm steeping in it.

just curious -- are you noting the calm and clarity and disembeding?

Yes - but it is done more softly and gently than in prior stages. There is so much clarity that the noting can get in the way and not keep up with the experience. I do note the calm, but I struggle a little with doing this because it is so pervasive it would need to be noted over and over.

This stage is trickier, in a way, than I thought. It is as if insight and concentration are coming together on more equal footing and I go back and forth between one and the other in the moment when I'm sitting.

I guess I'm struggling a bit with how to do the work of insight at this stage. On one hand, there is a feeling in this stage that I need to get out of the way and let it unfold (concentration), but that I don't want to get stuck so I need to keep disembedding (vipassana).

Does anyone have any advice about what is the better approach in Equanimity?

As i read back over the last entry, I wonder if I'm setting up a false dichotomy. Maybe there is a bigger way to think about these methods that includes them both and I'm discovering the need for a new perspective...

Hi Ron,
I'm pretty sure I reach equanimity on my sits and I'm also finding it a bit hard to continue noting inside very calm and concentrated states.
For me, it is as if noting just stops when strong calm develops.. I still try to note though, because without it I just sit back and relax ('ahhhh!') without dis-embedding.

"I guess I'm struggling a bit with how to do the work of insight [during equanimity]. On one hand, there is a feeling in this stage that I need to get out of the way and let it unfold (concentration), but that I don't want to get stuck so I need to keep disembedding (vipassana)."-RonCrouch

Hi Ron,

In the early nanas, it's about "doing" something. Later, it's about allowing things to ripen. By the time you get to equanimity, there is already a good balance of concentration and insight; you don't get to equanimity without that. So it isn't necessary to note, but it is necessary to remain undistracted so that your mind continues to ripen, setting the stage for the next Insight Knowledge (Path and Fruition). The question is, how do you know when you are undistracted?

If you are seeing the objects clearly, continuously, as they arise, you are undistracted. The most likely scenario is that at times your mind will wander. This happens because you are accessing very subtle states of mind and thoughts can slip in the back door and carry you away. At some point, you realize that you have been pleasantly wandering for seconds or minutes and you bring your mind back to the objects, only to be carried off into thoughts again a few seconds later. The answer is to directly target thoughts. And in keeping with the "allowing rather than doing" idea, you want to use some kind of reflection or inquiry instead of noting.

I've found that the most consistently effective reflection/inquiry is "I wonder what my next thought will be..." Then, you simply watch the mind as a cat would watch a mouse hole, alert to the moment that a new thought sticks its head up. By doing this, you are gently objectifying thoughts, the most subtle of phenomena. This keeps you from being carried away by the thoughts and you naturally go deep. Ripening happens automatically.

Mike and I are talking about this offline, and I commented that sometimes, when I get into my equanimity stage, it feels very fragile. I can look around, observe, but it feels like I am a glass ball balanced on knife edge. If I am too heavy-handed, then the ball will tip over and the state will rupture.

Aside from the obvious "fruition" answer, what would characterize ripening?

"Mike and I are talking about this offline, and I commented that sometimes, when I get into my equanimity stage, it feels very fragile. I can look around, observe, but it feels like I am a glass ball balanced on knife edge. If I am too heavy-handed, then the ball will tip over and the state will rupture.

Aside from the obvious "fruition" answer, what would characterize ripening?"

I kind of think it might be a kind of pysio-energetic ripening, the cutting of the path to fruition is completed. I know this sounds silly but I like it cos it's just me playing around with ideas from my post path experiences. Every time I dwell in the witness and whenever I note consistently, I feel the energies moving up in the body towards the crown. Maybe this whole movement of energy is what's cutting the path up the body and finally cuts a big enough hole when you are in equanimity to dip into nibbana. For me, equanimity of formations is all about the third eye and crown chakras and the crown is where the fruition occurred. So all my practice of sitting in high equanimity was carving out and removing obstacles (sticky embedded "I") that hindered the flow of upwards moving energy eventually allowing for the top to pop. This is just a silly view I would tell my kid if I had one.

Thanks for all this insight and advice. I just sat for an hour using Kenneth's technique of seeing what the next thought will be and it worked like a charm! The moment I started doing it my mind just shut up (what a relief!).

Also, I've also noticed a lot of activity at the crown and forehead as Nik describes. It is really true of my experience as well, and the more calm I get, the more active and "ticklish" those areas seem to become. My attention naturally gets drawn there the deeper into this stage I get.

During this past hour I had an experience that was possible a near miss to path. I was very calm, in equanimity for about 30 minutes or so, and for a fraction of a second everything went "dark" and I had a full body tremble. Still not sure what it was, but I'm watching to see if it happens again...

Hey Ron,

Can you describe with a little more detail what you mean by everything went "dark"?

I would be curious to hear some description of the event as well. I found after path I would encounter some real fruitions... but also had some near misses. These I believe were a quick trip up into a hard 7th jhana or something. Anyway enough about me, lets hear what Ron has to say...

I'm really looking forward to ron's next post.

OK... whatever this was that happened, it was more important than I first thought.

At first I didn't have much of a feeling of change, and just felt a little relaxed like I do after a good sit. However, as the night has worn on two things have really stood out. First is that I have this sense that I'm experiencing A&P like sensations (rising energy, pleasantness, excitement) off the cushion, but especially when I close my eyes. Second, and the reason I'm writing at this hour, is that I feel really energetic. I keep waking up and it is not like insomnia where I would feel frustrated that I can't sleep, rather, I feel totally energized and relaxed. There is a great sense that something has changed, but no clear sense of what it was.

As far as the experience itself, it was so quick I struggle to even put into words what happened. I was not noting, just watching the peacefulness and feeling deep in equanimity. Then I have a perception of a sudden lack of anything,,, it was "dark" but my eyes were closed, so the the sense of light that comes with equanimity, along with the all the interesting raptures at the crown suddenly "went out" for lack of a better word. This did not feel like a big deal at the moment. Nothing about it seemed otherworldly or strange. The next instant I notice that my body is trembling and then I'm right back where I was. The whole thing lasted less than a second.

But here I am wide awake and giddy at 2:30 AM Chicago time... and I should point out that I am definitely NOT a night person. If it wasn't path, it was something important and close to it. Now I can't wait for tomorrow to sit again and see what happens...

I don't want to give a diagnosis because there are many yogis here more advanced than me... See how things are tomorrow. ; )

See if it repeats!!!

this is great no matter what, thanks so much for sharing your practice

NIce, Ron! Keep us all posted, please.

It's been a day and the experience that I had hasn't repeated so it is likely a near miss. Whatever it was though, it had some intense effects. I was still energetic this afternoon running on just a few hours sleep. The A&P type sensations (pulsing and rising energy along with pressure on the crown) continue though, and were present off and on throughout the day.

Still not sure what to make of this, but it is really awesome if nothing else. I'm facinated to watch this all happen.