Ron's Practice Journal

The ability to repeat cessation is not an indicator of 1st Path. For example, I didn't have multiple or on-demand cessations until after 2nd Path. It's more about changes in your practice. Do you find that you are already in 4th nana (A&P) as soon as you sit down to meditate, without having to go through the usual long settling-in period? Are the stages clearer than before? Can you access jhanas at will? Try, you might be surprised at what you find.

You reported that something feels different, but you aren't sure what. Can you say more about that?

More, please

I'm glad you are being sceptical because I think that is a good practice in general for this kind of thing, but ....

Yeh, it's good to not jump the gun. I am definitely guilty of it at times. Goodness, I am really just waiting to see what is happening with Ron. WOOOOT!

This is the KFD forum equivalent of a page turner... Come on Ron don't keep us in suspense...

I got home early from work and jumped right into the meditation to see what will happen. Yesterday I sat for an hour about 2 times and today for about 45 minutes. Here is what I found:

I'm definitely at A&P as soon as I sit. In, fact driving on the way home and just thinking about sitting just brought on some A&P types symptoms.

The stages are more clear than before.

Jhana... this one is tough to answer. For years I had an idea of what jhana is based on Ajahn Braham and Pa Auk Sayadaw, and then I started participating in this community and learned that there is "hard" and "soft" jhana. So I always thought all jhana was only rock hard solid jhana, and for years I tried to reach that state to no avail, put I did experience some intense pleasurable stuff... Now when I sit and try to concentrate on jhana, I don't experience hard jhana, but something has changed. The jhana is still soft, and I don't sense that I'm in it, but the signs of it are clear and strong. For example I just sat and tried jhana and felt something like A&P but much much stronger, with light, raptures and lots of pleasure. Then it "smoothed out" and it felt the same only without any turbulence to the feelings. It was more chilled out and calm.

As far a feeling that something is different, this is hard to explain. I felt a little bit lighter the night it happened, literally as if a little bit of weight had dropped off me. I was in a fantastic mood, literally chuckling and giggling. I had a headache before sitting that night (on Wednesday) and it vanished after the sit. I felt so good I went for a walk when I normally would go to bed.

Since then, I have felt somewhat different. I feel as though the "energy channel" that Nik wrote about opened up and I can sense it more. Even during the day when I'm running errands I can turn my attention to it and sense it

Cont

I also continue to feel more relaxed and energetic, though it has settled down somewhat and I'm returning to baseline. Still the effect of this thing is lasting a long time.

Still not totally 100% sure about this, mostly because of the jhana thing. I feel like it is almost a perfect match for the description of path except for that one bit.

Steady as she goes to quote Kenneth. Keep us updated for sure Ron. It will become clearer over time. Try making a resolution to experience something in your next sit, maybe 4th jhana or each jhana individually, or each of the insights individually. Make the resolution that if it was stream entry, then may I attain a fruition in this sit. See what happens. And when you find yourself in a jhana see if by just willing the mind to experience what comes next shifts the mind into another jhana. And do the eye flick method that Kenneth talks about. That's how I really knew that I had done it.

Flutter your eyelids upwards. Watch them flutter and pay attention to the last flutter and the last sensation of fluttering as it ends. What happens?

Hi Ron,

To follow up on Nick's suggestion, try some jhana jumping. Forget about the hard/soft dichotomy you mentioned in post 129; it's a red herring. Jhana is like tuning a radio. If you tune the dial to 104.3 FM, you get New York's classic rock station. You don't get any other station. Sometimes it's clear and sometimes it's fuzzy depending on conditions like proximity to the transmitter, weather, power supply to the receiver, quality of receiver, etc., but you are at 104.3 no matter how you slice it. That is what we mean by jhana. It is a frequency in the mind and characterized by a certain category of experience; it's jhana whether it is fuzzy or clear.

Instructions for jhana jumping:

1) Go to the 1st jhana. You'll feel the tight focus of mind on your meditation object(s). Mind sticks to object. You will feel quiet exhilaration. If you want to go deeper into concentration at this frequency, steep in the pleasant sensations of the jhana like a tea bag. You'll go deeper.

2) Jump to the 3rd jhana. Diffuse focus of mind, coolness on the skin, chilled out bliss. Steep.

3) Jump to the 2nd jhana. Mind soaks into object. Corresponds to A&P. Deep joy. Gently rising energy. Room appears brighter, even with eyes closed. Steep and go deeper.

4) Jump to 4th jhana. Focus gently zooms out to include the whole environment and the objects within it. Equanimity. Flow of experience. Good balance of concentration and vipassana. Steep.

5) Jump back to 1st jhana. Notice how the body wants to shake as you shunt energy around in the body because of the rapid shift. Let the body move and shake.

Let us know the results of the jhana jumping experiment. Also try the eyelid fluttering as suggested by Nick, above.

I'm looking forward to our regular Sunday talk. Meanwhile, what you are reporting is consistent with Path and Fruition.

Kenneth this is great. Is this in a similar format anywhere else on the site?

Wow! I just tried the Jhana jumping and it worked. I could feel the differences between them clearly and could go from any of them to any other. I could also start at any of them. All I had to do was just think about the jhana I wanted and the mind went right to it like a well trained pup.

I also tried the eye fluttering technique but nothing happened, and I also sat in equnimity with a resolution to reexperience but nothing happened there either. However, equanimity is so crystal clear and strong right now.

@Mumuwu: I think this is the only place on the site where I've given instructions for jhana jumping. It's a good exercise for diagnosing where a yogi is on the map and it's good for getting to really know the jhanas, which is especially useful if you want to be a teacher. A cautionary note is in order, though: jhana jumping sets up a subtle tension in the mind because it is an unnatural manipulation of the flow from one mind state to the next. It doesn't help a yogi to progress further along the Progress of Insight or the 4 Paths, so it's more in the realm of fruit to be enjoyed than a vehicle for further progress.

@Ron: OK, good, your ability to access and enter jhanas has improved as would be expected at stream entry. As for the fruitions, try this: as you sit and work your way up from 4th nana to 11th, there will be a time when you notice that you are suddenly back in the 4th. In other words, there was no gradual descent as in 11,10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4; there was just a sudden "waking up" in A&P territory, having been deep in 4th jhana/11th nana just a moment before. What was it that happened in that discontinuity between 11th nana and 4th? That was a fruition.

This cycling from 4th nana up to 11th, then a fruition which dumps you directly back into 4th, is what I call review phase A. Later, you'll have review phase B, which is just riding the jhanic arc up and down, with all nanas in order, 1-11,15 and then back down again in reverse order(12,13, and 14 are one-time events that can't be reviewed).

Well, I have to go ahead and congratulate you, Ron. It sounds like you had a major breakthrough. Awesome....Keep popping peoples!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOT!

What an exciting thread! Very inspiring ... congrats to Ron. For what it's worth, as I was reading this, my wife in the other room was singing Pop Goes the Weasel to my son!

"Kenneth this is great. Is this in a similar format anywhere else on the site?"

I found the case study on "Monica" to be chock full of this great stuff too.

I get to have coffee this morning with a Stream Enterer!

Thanks so much for all the support! Having this community made a tremendous difference in getting me to this place in my practice. I think I'd still be in the dark without all the support.

Kenneth, I took your advice and watched for a shift from equanimity to A&P this morning (I just sat for about 45 minutes). It happened twice. The first time I only noticed it after I was well into A&P. Then I went back up through the stages and this time in equanimity I really paid careful attention to try and catch the moment of cessation. I didn't, but I found myself in A&P again, and all of a sudden I had a blissed-out feeling. I opened my eyes and laughed for a bit, and shook my head at how quick the cessation is. I hope I get better at seeing it happen.

It takes time for many especially outside of a retreat setting... Love the Dharma, happy to see such progress Ron...

"I went back up through the stages and this time in equanimity I really paid careful attention to try and catch the moment of cessation. I didn't, but I found myself in A&P again, and all of a sudden I had a blissed-out feeling. I opened my eyes and laughed for a bit, and shook my head at how quick the cessation is."-RonCrouch

Excellent! These are "no-self" (anatta) door fruitions. You don't see them coming, they are are very smooth and seamless, and you only know they have happened by the tracks they leave. In other words, the discontinuity, the bliss wave, and the state change are the signals that the fruition/cessation has occurred.

Following a discussion with Kenneth this morning I'm learning what this new phase is all about. It is the review phase, and when I sit it goes like this: I start at A&P and make my way up to equanimity. The stages are crisp now, very clear, and sometimes it is easy to see the very moment when one stage shifts to another. Once in equanimity I now feel this gradual building of energy which is pleasant and exciting. The build-up ends in a fruition, of which I've had two kinds. The first is the "no-self" fruition which feels like nothing at all. I just find myself back in A&P with a blissed-out feeling. The other kind happened to me the first time and just repeated this evening when I sat. This one is a quick sudden darkness that comes down from the crown area and is a little like a blind is being pulled down and back up in an instant. Again, I find myself back in A&P with a blissed-out feeling.

As far as the changes go from this experience, I need to see what the work week is like, but I can say that I do feel... better in some way that is hard to put into words. Not exactly happier and not exactly more relaxed, but a subtle shift occured and I am curious to see what happens next.

"Following a discussion with Kenneth this morning I'm learning what this new phase is all about. It is the review phase, and when I sit it goes like this: I start at A&P and make my way up to equanimity. The stages are crisp now, very clear, and sometimes it is easy to see the very moment when one stage shifts to another. Once in equanimity I now feel this gradual building of energy which is pleasant and exciting. The build-up ends in a fruition, of which I've had two kinds. The first is the "no-self" fruition which feels like nothing at all. I just find myself back in A&P with a blissed-out feeling. The other kind happened to me the first time and just repeated this evening when I sat. This one is a quick sudden darkness that comes down from the crown area and is a little like a blind is being pulled down and back up in an instant. Again, I find myself back in A&P with a blissed-out feeling.

As far as the changes go from this experience, I need to see what the work week is like, but I can say that I do feel... better in some way that is hard to put into words. Not exactly happier and not exactly more relaxed, but a subtle shift occured and I am curious to see what happens next.

"

What door is the second fruition?

"What door is the second fruition?"

Sounds like the anicca/impermanence door to me.
How do you set it up to experience those two doors?
I would just be aware exclusively of the impermanence of phenomena for the anicca door, and same for the other two to experience their respective entrances. The dukkha one for me feels like a very slight swift pulling up tensing at the crown. Try focusing on the nature of unsatisfactoriness of the phenomena. See what happens.

Congrats once again, Ron! .

"... I can say that I do feel... better in some way that is hard to put into words. Not exactly happier and not exactly more relaxed, but a subtle shift occured and I am curious to see what happens next."

I certainly relate to this kind of feeling. I think it has to do with losing some of the anchors that tend to bind us to our personal experiences of the world - the "small me" version. At first it's very, very subtle and hard to nail down as a real thing. And you don't really quite have to tools to see the processes that have been changed unless you're sitting and focusing on them directly. Yet the processes have been altered and the effects due to that are felt much of the time, especially at first when they're new and the contrast between that new set of things and the old is at its height. After a while it fades a bit and becomes your new normal. Then it's time for the next path

Heheh, I so relate to what Chris says. I find it hard now to remember what the mind felt like pre-path because my current state becomes the norm. Get ready for quite the ride, Ron! At least you have this place to come to if you get the kundalini spurts up the backside and the third eye headaches and iron skull cap.

Something new is starting... for the past week I've been starting out at A&P when I sit, and it was great. I'd sit and boom! Rising energy, light, pleasure and excitement. The past two times that I sat it just didn't happen. It was solid, normal and well... boring. Especially after all the recent fireworks, this is a bit of a let down.

"Something new is starting... for the past week I've been starting out at A&P when I sit, and it was great. I'd sit and boom! Rising energy, light, pleasure and excitement. The past two times that I sat it just didn't happen. It was solid, normal and well... boring. Especially after all the recent fireworks, this is a bit of a let down.
"

Review period over?

You might be in equanimity. It can get a bit meh! at times. Or maybe dark night or maybe you are starting the 2nd insight cycle. You are going to be cycling man, these days my A/P's don't last long at all. Get used to it..