Mike Monson's practice notes

I was listening to the U Vivekananda stuff. At one point he gave an example of what often happens on retreat. He was talking about how sometimes yogis will get to a point where the rise and fall is just incredibly blissful and easy and not something they have experienced before. It reminded me a lot of what you were describing during the peak when you were discovering this new sense of ease. And then, of course, he talked about the crash that sometimes follows.

To have to deal with the crash AND a bunch of bad stuff going on as well ... that's not easy. It's great that you're practicing right through it, though.
It would be easy to just quit right now.

"I was listening to the U Vivekananda stuff. At one point he gave an example of what often happens on retreat. He was talking about how sometimes yogis will get to a point where the rise and fall is just incredibly blissful and easy and not something they have experienced before. It reminded me a lot of what you were describing during the peak when you were discovering this new sense of ease. And then, of course, he talked about the crash that sometimes follows.

To have to deal with the crash AND a bunch of bad stuff going on as well ... that's not easy. It's great that you're practicing right through it, though.
It would be easy to just quit right now. "

jgroove:
thanks, that rings true for me. I've had a lot of insights and good experience due to practice but I've never felt real pleasure or bliss before. really. I don't know if this is a crash or not but the experience is certainly over for me at least temporarily.
but i've noted for the entire 14 months that i've been seriously praticing this method that for me any growth spurt has always been followed by a step or two backwards.
normally I probably would be thinking of quiting but that's really not an option for me any more i don't think

Right. And by "just quit" I don't mean give up the whole path or anything. I could easily see myself saying, "Well, I've got to deal with all of this stuff. I can't really practice right now." But you've just gotten too accustomed to noting good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant, so you're actually just noting any such resistance and sticking to the practice, just as you noted the ease and bliss--and stuck to the practice--over the past few weeks.
That seems just as important, if not more important, than the peak itself. Continuity, consistency, effort...

Yes. Don't fall into the trap of interpreting experience as "backwards" or "forwards." Whatever happens is what happens. It may be bliss and it's really cool and nice when it is. It may be hell and it's really painful and ugly when it is. But neither has anything to do with your progress.

Really.

jgroove, clayton, chris:
thanks so much for all the encouragement and advice. the support of this sangha makes a huge difference in my practice and in my life. it is really amazing. you are all my 'secret weapon.'

Weekend sits got "better" if better is defined as more concentration, more equanimity, etc.
Just now, in my office, 40 mins:
Rising, falling, stopping. Rising, stop, falling, stopping, etc. etc.
Two distinct things seem to be happening at once: an ease with staying with the breath that created a knowledge that with just a little more concentration I'd enter something blissful; and: a LOT of tension all over accompanied by resistance to fully disembedding. It feels like me is subltly attacking me with little darts and arrows of pain. For right now I can't stop doing it. There is a moment, a mechanism, a process in which such objects can be seen and noted with equanimity that I just can't get to right now. So, I'm noting that for as long as it lasts. It's nice, actually.

Ever get the feeling that things are WAY different than you'd thought?

Anyway, last night's last sit. 40 mins.
Incredible pain all over. Chest, head, back, abdomen, etc. -- just a persistent annoyed irritated frustrated angry feeling. The whole sit was like this:
Rising, pain, falling, pain, stopping, pain, unpleasant, pain, unpleasant, Rising, pain .... and on and on.
Never quite experienced this in a sitting. Rather than diminishing with attention like I'm used to, it seemed to grow and grow. I could sense myself trying to come up with just the right mental attitude of awareness to make it go away. Eventually I just surrendered to the fact that it was there and let it come. (This didn't make it go away either. ) It was pretty impressive.
Once the alarm went off and I stood up it went away and the rest of the evening I was in a high energy good mood. When I went to bed I got very mindful and attentive laying there and felt very peaceful.

I too seem to be going through some pain and frustration in my sits. This is a good reminder for me that surrendering to pain does not mean its going to go away. Its not really surrendering if we're standing there tapping our foot and looking at watches, eh?

Glad to hear you could bounce out of this after the sit. I've noticed that when I find myself fighting the frustration, I end up carrying it with me for the rest of the day. Going to practice more surrendering next time I sit.

In terms of the maps/states/stages, I seem to remember the phrase "a solid block of pain" coming up. Sounds like that's where you guys are. Dukkha nyanas?

"In terms of the maps/states/stages, I seem to remember the phrase "a solid block of pain" coming up. Sounds like that's where you guys are. Dukkha nyanas? "

I don't know. Supposedly I've been in equanimity for months now, maybe I'm slipping back for a while.
But, like I said yesterday, "walking around" I've never felt better.

"In terms of the maps/states/stages, I seem to remember the phrase "a solid block of pain" coming up. Sounds like that's where you guys are. Dukkha nyanas?"-jgroove

A "solid block of pain" never refers to the dukkha nanas (nanas 6-10). It only happens in the 3rd nana, which is pre-A&P. Post A&P (Knowledge of the Arising and Passing Away of Phenomena), everything breaks up and/or disappears as you observe it. Pain in the dukkha nanas is more like "Whack-a-mole;" things disappear or break up as soon as you give them your attention.

In Mike Monson's case, the most likely scenario is that he got 1st Path (stream entry) a couple of weeks ago, was in the review phase for awhile, and is now in the early, pre-A&P nanas (#s 1-3) of the new cycle, i.e., the cycle that will eventually lead to 2nd Path.

His job at this point is to learn how to penetrate the object all over again. In other words, he needs to get the A&P again! Ha, ha, never a dull moment!

Sorry to talk about you in the 3rd person, Mike, but I started out this post as a note to jgroove and it just came out that way!

(I may be wrong about all of this, of course, so we'll just keep an open mind and see what develops.)

Kenneth

"Supposedly I've been in equanimity for months now, maybe I'm slipping back for a while."-telecaster

Nobody gets demoted, Mike. It doesn't work that way. You just keep moving on. It's just that moving on does not always appear linear. It's more like a spiral. Always spiraling deeper, again and again through what becomes very familiar territory.

The tortoise always wins this race.

"His job at this point is to learn how to penetrate the object all over again. In other words, he needs to get the A&P again! Ha, ha, never a dull moment! "

Thanks, Kenneth!
Let's all congratulate Mike--time to roll the boulder up the hill some more, dude!

Kenneth's posts here got me wondering if he was right (we had a conversation about a week ago about this same thing and I just didn't think path had happened) and I looked back at my posts for the past couple of weeks. If it did happen (and still i doubt it probably because I expected it to be a bigger deal, though when i re-read the posts it looks like I was going through something pretty big) it was somewhere in posts 80-91 and 110-120, especially 80.
I'll keep practicing and keep posting in as open and honest and blunt a manner as possible and we'll see what happens.

"Kenneth's posts here got me wondering if he was right (we had a conversation about a week ago about this same thing and I just didn't think path had happened) and I looked back at my posts for the past couple of weeks. If it did happen (and still i doubt it probably because I expected it to be a bigger deal, though when i re-read the posts it looks like I was going through something pretty big) it was somewhere in posts 80-91 and 110-120, especially 80.
I'll keep practicing and keep posting in as open and honest and blunt a manner as possible and we'll see what happens. "

Isn't Path routinely described as an anti-climax, to such an extent that people often can't help but laugh? And haven't you been walking around feeling changed, i.e. "I've never felt this good in my life"? Hmmmm....

A lot of these things are more subtle that you'd think. Mike. Sounds like congrats are in order.

YES!!!!!!, Hopefully this is true! As we are all giving "it" some time to settle .....I will congratulate you anyways, Mike!

MUDITA!!!!

Just sat for 40 mins in my office.
No big pain like last night.
Wasn't sure exactly what to do so I just decided to let buddha inside me decide for me, which ended up being a nice easy following of the breath along with noting strong vibrations all over.
No big deal. Nice.
Fell complelety and totally asleep somewhere near the end.

"I'll keep practicing and keep posting in as open and honest and blunt a manner as possible and we'll see what happens. "

Whether it was or wasn't, I find this whole recent turn of events very inspiring. Thanks again Mike, for your open honest bluntness.

Of course, if it was.....

Congratulations!

"Wasn't sure exactly what to do so I just decided to let buddha inside me decide for me." ~Mike

Sounds like a winning strategy to me

So wild! Either way, good stuff Mike!

Wow nice... give it some time... I certainly wouldn't rule anything out...

Besides experimenting with "calling up" fruitions (which I'll write about later), I really have very little to report. I've sat about three times since my last post and, despite all efforts to the contrary, have fallen into a deep relaxed sleep each time. I don't know what this is about but I'm sure, as usual, it will change into something else very soon.