Mike Monson's practice notes

"Hahaha, sorry for the hijack, Mike but wouldn't it be more like "precioussssss" "precioussssssss" 'hate" "hate' baggins-thought, 'agitation" "hate baggins-thought" "kill hobbits-thought" "see how it slithers in the dark" "preciousssssss-thought""

I'm laughing my head off--"see how it slithers in the dark"
LOL!
Vince, you're totally right!
BuddhistNerds!

Ok, after about seven 40 minute sits today I think I am done. I'd sit, then clean house for a while, sit and then go to the gym, sit and then cook a meal, etc. It was a simple day and I even spent some of my non sitting time concenrating very hard on moment to moment and movement to movement mindfulness.
My technique was still mostly rise/fall abdomen while noting other experiences that came up.
I dealt with a lot of doubt and uncertainty. Now, every since I encountered these practices back in the 70s (mostly through kornfield's 'living buddhist masters') I've just believed in their ulimate value and it is a belief and a faith that has never wavered. I believe that if one does the practice correctly for the right amount of time great things will happen.
Still, doubt was strong in me this weekend even though I didn't really buy it. I was impatient, frustrated, disapointed. I think because I've been practicing steadily for a year and then -- boom -- devoted hours each day for four straight days to intense practice with no noticeable growth or change. I know it is just more stuff to deal with and I'm going to keep on but this was my experience for this 'mini retreat.'
Im really impressed with ron's ability to know where he is on the map at all times and I wish I could be like that. But, for now, I really have no idea what is going on. I spent time either daydreaming or noting my breath while having my head swing back and forth at incredible speed.
the last two sits I shifted gears a litle. hard to describe but i just went with my shifting bare experience from moment to moment without verbal noting. Just moving. I found so many corners and cubbyholes of pain and frustration that i realize that I avoid and cover up all day long. so instead on these sits i'd go right to those places and feel/experience/explore them as completely as possible.
cont

cont
In the coming weeks I'm going to try to report more bare bones on my sits in an attempt to try to better learn the movement through the stages.

more:
so, no, I had no great raptures, powerful insights, or amazing states of mind during this 'mini retreat' -- because, of course, for me, practicing the way i practiced at this time in my life such things just weren't meant to be. the idea that I'd have those peak experiences just because i expected to is ... pretty ridiculous. And that in itself is insight enough i think.

With the perspective of a nights sleep I'm able to notice this doubt. It is just there like a force. Like it had been waiting for the right moment to pounce and dominate my life.
I know this will pass and anywhere from a second from now to a day from now or a week or a year from now or ten years from now I'll be brimming with certainty.
But, for right now, this doubt wants me to give it all up and it is powerful and very convincing.
Interesting.

Sounds to me like where you are on the map is...dark night.
But what do I know about these things?
Still, what you're describing sounds quite familiar. Just curious, how much thought have you given to the receptive effort, surrender-related end of things?
I don't actually buy the idea of "hyper-masculine" practices lacking efficacy or validity, but I do think the idea that all yogis have to balance masculine/feminine, receptive/active within their practice is a very valid point. Noticing how much frustration and, obviously, ambition underlies my practice, I've been thinking harder about this. It's funny to me that my approach vis-a-vis "letting go" or receptive effort was to adopt yet another set of active practices--the conscious relaxation or "tranquilizing bodily formations" as taught by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Ha!
Still, I think there's probably something to this idea of doing a lot of metta practice, just letting go and relaxing at the different energy centers, letting things happen. I know from your previous posts that you know all of this already.
One interesting thing about the mushroom culture is that it allows a person like me to feel that he is a very advanced yogi--certainly more advanced than the other meditators at the dharma center, say--and that those others would all benefit from his knowledge.

In my case, it has been humbling to visit this forum and see a practitioner like Ron, and there are many others, just sail ahead while I'm still sitting there like the proverbial chronic yogi. I don't want to say I've made no progress--my concentration is deepening through samatha practice, and I think it's huge to understand that thought isn't the only object that needs to be objectified/dis-embedded from...
Anyway, here's to disclosure, which makes progress possible!

Thanks jgroove.
I've been diagnosed for a while now as in "equanimity" but I've just taken that on faith. Plus, don't people in equanimity slipped back sometimes or go into "reobservation?" I just read the description of reobservation from Kenneth and could really relate.
But a point I want to make really clear is this --- I KNOW that these thoughts and feelings are just thoughts and feelings that are arising and passing and that I just happen to be dominated by a certain strata of mind right now. I know it will pass and it is just something else to practice with.
The doubt and vague negativity toward practice I'm experiencing is not something I will act upon, you know what I mean? I won't get all pissed off and reject practice and do a bunch of stuff in reaction. I'm just going to keep going. It isn't going to effect my family or work.
This actually feels very familiar and, actually, I think it is already lifting.

"Thanks jgroove.
I've been diagnosed for a while now as in "equanimity" but I've just taken that on faith. Plus, don't people in equanimity slipped back sometimes or go into "reobservation?" I just read the description of reobservation from Kenneth and could really relate.
But a point I want to make really clear is this --- I KNOW that these thoughts and feelings are just thoughts and feelings that are arising and passing and that I just happen to be dominated by a certain strata of mind right now. I know it will pass and it is just something else to practice with.
The doubt and vague negativity toward practice I'm experiencing is not something I will act upon, you know what I mean? I won't get all pissed off and reject practice and do a bunch of stuff in reaction. I'm just going to keep going. It isn't going to effect my family or work.
This actually feels very familiar and, actually, I think it is already lifting. "

Given what you've posted here, I can understand the diagnosis. It does indeed sound like you're in a place of acceptance. The dark night yogi is probably me!

"Given what you've posted here, I can understand the diagnosis. It does indeed sound like you're in a place of acceptance. The dark night yogi is probably me!
"

My theory is that you can be in a "dark night" strata and react to it in ways that are maybe harmful, or, with more experience you can be in dark night and just practice with it because you've been through it so many times before.
the way Kenneth teaches all this helps, as well. I mean, nothing is really happening to "me" that i need to do something about. My mind is just emiting stuff that needs to be disembedded from.
In fact what I really need to disembed from is any kind of desire for stream entry. Desire for stream entry is just a pain in the ass and isn't stream entry and it wont magically turn into stream entry. But maybe the freedom that would come from disembedding from that desire could make some kind of psychic change. I'll see.
I'm noting the desire, I'm noting the doubt, I'm noting a certain jealousy I sometimes feel, I'm noting "me" wanting things for "me." and on and on and on and on

"Thanks jgroove.
I've been diagnosed for a while now as in "equanimity" but I've just taken that on faith. Plus, don't people in equanimity slipped back sometimes or go into "reobservation?" I just read the description of reobservation from Kenneth and could really relate.
But a point I want to make really clear is this --- I KNOW that these thoughts and feelings are just thoughts and feelings that are arising and passing and that I just happen to be dominated by a certain strata of mind right now. I know it will pass and it is just something else to practice with.
The doubt and vague negativity toward practice I'm experiencing is not something I will act upon, you know what I mean? I won't get all pissed off and reject practice and do a bunch of stuff in reaction. I'm just going to keep going. It isn't going to effect my family or work.
This actually feels very familiar and, actually, I think it is already lifting. "

Been there many, many, many times. Doubt never really went away until 1st path. Even now, every now and then I get the doubt that "I didn't get 1st path". Then I call up a fruition and the bliss wave sets me straight. What I am saying is doubt comes and goes even for someone post 1st path, although i have no doubt about the illusion of "I". I think we could include a mischievous banshee to Jackson's journey metaphor who whispers thoughts of "Why haven't you done this yet?" "You are probably doing it wrong!" "Turn back!" into your ear as you hike through the dark night woods. Keep on keeping on!

watch it watching itself watching it watch itself

Okay, doubt is mostly gone.
Yesterday did vipassana in the van on the way to work, in my office at lunch, on the van on the way home from work, this morning on the van, then in the "yoga room" at the gym for about 15 mintues after my workout, then just now for about 50 minutes in my office.
Okay, just now (these pretty much will describe the other sits as well):
Start off being aware of rise and fall of abdomen. Aware of when the breath stopped after the fall and occassionally after the rise. Saw mental images of the sensations of breathing superimposed upon the experience of the breathing.
Kept this up pretty well with minimal mind wandering.
Noted some itches, vibrations, but mostly stuck with the breath.
Very early on I got the energy surges up my spine as I noted the breath. Up until then I was in ___________. Once the surges started I was in ____________ (A&P?). This continued, watching breath, noting sensations, noting mind wandering and bring back, lots of weak surges. At some point got a little sense of rapture here and there -- very weak, at this point I was at ____________ (dissolution?) these went away mostly and I just got the surges, so I was back to ________________ (A&P?). Felt kind of light headed and peaceful from beginning to end and I have no idea what that means.

cont.
Experienced nothing that I would characterize as fear or m isery or disgust or desire for deliverance or re-observation. The whole sit really matches Kenneth description of 11th nana: everything is fine, could sit for hours, things present themsselves and then go away, no problem. All the way through I have a good sense of each object of experience or thought appearing. I often would remind myself to stick with just looking at what was happening in the very present and I could do it.
there were times of "hey!I'm doing this JUST RIGHT! why isn't anything happening???" which I would note as doubt or frustration and go back to the breath.
I'm also doing my best to get the habit of keeping mindfulness going all the time. Like at the gym, aware of my breath and my steps as i walk in, aware of a little tension as I interact with the attractive person who hands out the towels, aware of steps down into the locker room, note the tension if I walk real close to someone else or almost run into someone else in a tight space, note "bending" "reaching" "pulling" "tension" as i change clothes and deal with my locker. Same things while walking on to work. "right" and "left" steps, "rising" and "falling" notes any tension arising in my body (mostly chest, abdomen, forehead) The strength of this comes and goes but I'm determined to find the right effort in this -- enough to be helpful but not so much that I'm all stressed out and tight with effort.
I find it IS possible to sit at my desk, be aware of my breathing, and be aware of other little movements as well as feelings. I think delveloping this is good, but, like i said, it is possible to get too hung up on it and actually miss things and just suffer.

It's not entirely conclusive, Mike, but the kind of mapping you are doing now is very useful. The pattern will become ever more clear over time. Meanwhile, you are using up all of the processing power in your mind as you both note and keep track of where you are and where you've been during your sitting. This is processing power that would otherwise have been spent worrying, wandering, and suffering. It's called "cognitive load." You want to max out your processing power with massive cognitive load while noting, because when you do you don't have any time to suffer. This is why precise, accurate noting is so important. It doesn't have to be fast; once a second or once every two seconds is plenty, as long as you are noting precisely enough to use up the available processing power.

If, on the other hand, you were doing a generic noting, e.g., limiting yourself to "seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking," you would not be getting sufficient cognitive load to crowd out the hindrances. With generic noting, you could note with just 10% of your processing power and spend the other 90% daydreaming. Not good. So, this is just a reminder to everyone to note as precisely and accurately as possible and to keep generating new noting vocabulary on the fly as you find new sensations or mind states that you haven't identified clearly before. Max cognitive load crowds out suffering. This is why U Pandita says that noting brings the end of suffering "first on a part time and later on a full time basis." The suffering referred to here is not unpleasantness or pain and it isn't "craving" as in "I crave chocolate ice cream." That kind of craving is a normal and essential part of human life. The suffering referred to here is what I call "stacked aversion," otherwise known as "the second arrow." Excellent essay on IMC website:

bit.ly/cAIDOz

In the post above, by "not entirely conclusive," I'm talking about knowing exactly which nana you are traveling through during a typical sit given the descriptions you just gave. What is conclusive, at least to me, is that the cutting edge of your practice is Knowledge of Equanimity. Sorry for the ambiguity.

Kenneth

"In the post above, by "not entirely conclusive," I'm talking about knowing exactly which nana you are traveling through during a typical sit given the descriptions you just gave. What is conclusive, at least to me, is that the cutting edge of your practice is Knowledge of Equanimity. Sorry for the ambiguity.

Kenneth"

okay, thanks.
here is my assumption, is it correct?
Pre-path each sit has to go up through all the steps from the begininning to 11 if that is where one is at. So, if this is true i DO, whether I know it or not, somehow go through all the one through three, the A&P and then the dukkha nanas before hitting 11? To be blunt, i don't get it because wouldn't fear, misery, disgust, etc. be obvious? Or, is my passage through just too quick for me to catch it?
THANKS

Also, I relate to your thoughts above on suffering. The more I practice this way the less i suffer. At least right now. Also to be more honest after thinking about it a bit more, there is a subtle tension all the way through of "I'm doing it, why no big insight?" I think I need to explore this more.

"okay, thanks.
here is my assumption, is it correct?
Pre-path each sit has to go up through all the steps from the begininning to 11 if that is where one is at. So, if this is true i DO, whether I know it or not, somehow go through all the one through three, the A&P and then the dukkha nanas before hitting 11? To be blunt, i don't get it because wouldn't fear, misery, disgust, etc. be obvious? Or, is my passage through just too quick for me to catch it?
THANKS-telecaster"

That's right. You are up and down through all of the nanas available to you in each sitting. The dukkha nanas can go by very quickly. You might just get a whiff of them as they sail by.

"Also to be more honest after thinking about it a bit more, there is a subtle tension all the way through of "I'm doing it, why no big insight?" I think I need to explore this more."-telecaster

By the time your practice is stabilizing in equanimity, you've had all of the big insights you are going to have. You probably won't have any more big insights into self, psychology, the nature of karma and dharma, etc., until Path. You might get bored. Note "boredom." Some people get complacent while developing the equanimity nana and stop practicing. It doesn't last; they find themselves back in the dark night and re-discover their motivation.

""Also to be more honest after thinking about it a bit more, there is a subtle tension all the way through of "I'm doing it, why no big insight?" I think I need to explore this more."-telecaster

By the time your practice is stabilizing in equanimity, you've had all of the big insights you are going to have. You probably won't have any more big insights into self, psychology, the nature of karma and dharma, etc., until Path. You might get bored. Note "boredom." Some people get complacent while developing the equanimity nana and stop practicing. It doesn't last; they find themselves back in the dark night and re-discover their motivation."

Thanks, that's what I REALLY meant, "why no path?"

"Thanks, that's what I REALLY meant, "why no path?"
"

Mike, Kenneth is spot on. Equanimity can get quite boring, but you can't stop noting. Don't worry about going at lightning speed or anything. Just don't let things like boredom or questioning get past you. It's really easy to become embedded that stuff.

You're doing great!

~Jackson

This morning my gym experience was an exercise in moment-to-moment mindfullness. For example, while on the stationary bike I kept track of each breath - I noticed any tensions or strong feelings -- I observed my thoughts -- I tried to keep track of my body movements and even note "intending to" though this is hard right now. Anyway after about 10 mintues my concentration honed in and the awareness was continuous and efffortless for quite a while. At that point the huge two-story room I was in seemed to grow brighter and expand while my "me" seemed to diminish just as much. This is a place I'd like to be in 24 X 7. (I've done it before, back in my 20s after reading a Kornfield book and a LOT of Krishnamurti and I had openings and what I'm sure now were A&P events and I'm pretty sure I got to equanimity a couple of times off and on as my practice came and went. Of course this is when I caught the insight disease." Note: sometimes I feel like other yogis dont think this is realistic or possible but it really is. One can go through every experience in a given day while staying aware of what is going on. sometimes it may just be the breath, sometimes just a continuous awareness of changing feeling tones, or thoughts, but it is definitely doable with practice and it is so worth it)
Anyway, on to the yoga room to stretch and sit with continued gentle mindfulness.
Had a few waves of unusally good feelings, the kind I don't think I've had in years and years.
At work now, keeping watch on my breath and my feelings and my movements as much as possible without straining or getting self-critical. This practice, for me at least, has to be gentle and constantly self-forgiving.

Awesome, and inspiring!

"I've done it before, back in my 20s after reading a Kornfield book and a LOT of Krishnamurti and I had openings and what I'm sure now were A&P events and I'm pretty sure I got to equanimity a couple of times off and on as my practice came and went. Of course this is when I caught the insight disease." "

Mike, I really relate to this statement. For what it's worth, I think that when I was feeling good in EQ, the tendency was always to DO SOMETHING with the feeling, a project, an adventure, etc. Never to sit in it and eventually grow bored of the sensation via investigation and saturation.

Also, just an aside... when I look at my sits and try to make sense of missing dark night stages, I have to conclude that sometimes the frustrations in progress might be how DN is manifesting (wanting path, frustrated with process, etc. etc.). But I don't know if that's real of if I'm bending the map to match the terrain.

Managed to sit many times over the weekend.
Sits were not much different from all of what I have recently been reporting. My emphasis is very much on consistency, on making sure I am actually DOING the practice and not getting lost in reflection and fantasy. Trying to keep my activity as simple as possible: note what is actually happening RIGHT NOW and then don't stop to think about it but instead to again, note what is happening RIGHT NOW. And, to do this steadily. Just keeping this up is actually very hard work for me.
I'm getting an idea now (dangerous I know;) ) of what "high equaniminty" might be and what needs to be happening to get to fruition -- basically, when consistent, steady, and accurate noting is achieved and held for a suficient period (could just be seconds, I'm not sure) then things shift into this other state. There is lightness and brightness and .......? Continued noting and disembedding at this stage creates the conditions for the POP. And, this is why Kenneth and others make such an argument for concentration skills at this point. Because, it takes pretty good concentration to get to high E and then even more to stay with and in it.
My whole practice focus then, on and off the cushion, is to be gently consistent in bringing my awareness back to the actual experience (door) of right now -- no more, no less.
And, still, whether I pop or not the fruits from this practice are constant: more peace, more joy, more intimacy with myself, others, the earth and, a bigger container with which to encounter and process experience. To really SEE moment to moment one has to be empty and ready for anything -- always.
cont.

cont.
Also, sparked by and encouraged by Nik, I decided to take the plunge and try Kasina meditation. While the internet is full of very complicated instructions for now I just went with Nik's "get a blue cereal bowl, prop it up and stare at it."
I did this twice over the weekend for 40 minutes each. Interesting to see what that bowl would do over time -- it would even disappear occasionally. I guess I may have gotten to access concentration here and there? Not sure.
40 minute sit just now in my office:
No notice of DN symptoms on my way to equanimity. Very quickly felt i was there. Worked on consistency. Noted vibrations in feet and hands -- these were weak and slow. Noticed itching. Whenever the consistency was maintained and I felt the shift I noted "hopeful" and "excited," etc. Also very aware of the image of "me" and not sure how to note it so I just went with "aware of image of me." (this is an awareness of the conjured up image that my brain creates all the time that I guess is part of the building blocks of the illusion of "me." It is changing constantly but is basically a combination of a visual input combined with some feelings that is a sort of snap shot of my "face" looking at stuff. it's hard to describe)
About half way through the vibrations seemed to go away and i was mostly just aware of light headedness, brightness, and the "me watching" image.

People occasionally get a little nervous about posting these kinds of sitting journals, but Mike's thread is just a perfect example of why doing this is so valuable. I'm learning a ton from reading this thread! Thanks, Mike!