Marc's practice notes
- kennethfolk
- Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #84334
by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Excellent report, Marc. Good, clear descriptions. Good technique. Keep it up. You mentioned in post 261that you felt discouraged by your lack of progress. You clearly have made significant progress, though, to be able to report like this. As for stream entry, I feel confident that you will get there if you consistently maintain this kind of effort. Momentum is everything. Keep your momentum high, not through heroics but through steadiness. Be present and aware as much as you can throughout the day so that when you sit down for your formal practice you are already warmed up.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #84335
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Deleted (double post)
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #84336
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Thank you, Kenneth, that's very motivating! Staying present throughout the day is something I tend to forget a lot...
I just had a 30 minute sit:
12 minutes shamatha
18 minutes noting (aloud for most of the time)
This sit followed exactly the same pattern as the sit I had this morning, except I went through the nanas much faster, and I was much more cocentrated while doing shamatha.
I just had a 30 minute sit:
12 minutes shamatha
18 minutes noting (aloud for most of the time)
This sit followed exactly the same pattern as the sit I had this morning, except I went through the nanas much faster, and I was much more cocentrated while doing shamatha.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #84337
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
This morning I meditated for 60 minutes.
20 minutes shamatha
40 minutes noting (mostly aloud)
Concentrating on my breath was very difficult; my attention felt very scattered and there were a lot of distracting thoughts flying through my mind.
Noting was also more difficult than usual. There was a lot of aversion and impatience. I probably did get to low equanimity: at a certain point the aversion dropped away and I noticed more calm and acceptance. But my mind stayed pretty active, and after about 10 minutes all the aversion and impatience was there again. I did manage to stay on the cushion until the timer went off.
20 minutes shamatha
40 minutes noting (mostly aloud)
Concentrating on my breath was very difficult; my attention felt very scattered and there were a lot of distracting thoughts flying through my mind.
Noting was also more difficult than usual. There was a lot of aversion and impatience. I probably did get to low equanimity: at a certain point the aversion dropped away and I noticed more calm and acceptance. But my mind stayed pretty active, and after about 10 minutes all the aversion and impatience was there again. I did manage to stay on the cushion until the timer went off.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #84338
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
I just lost typed and lost a new practice update, so here it goes again...
Last night I sat for 30 minutes: 10 minutes shamatha and 20 minutes noting (aloud and silently). I went up to my cutting edge pretty fast, and watched all the pleasant vibrations. I could have sat longer, but due to other plans, I got up (too) soon.
This morning I had a 55 minute sit
About 15 minutes shamatha
The rest of the sit noting (mostly aloud)
It was a pretty difficult sit with a lot of aversion and restlessness. I did eventually seem to get up to equanimity, with more calm and acceptance, and some vibrations.
This evening I meditated for 45 minutes:
About 15 minutes shamatha
30 minutes noting (mostly silently)
Concentrating on my breath was very easy (it tends to be pretty easy in the evening, don't know why). But when I started noting, I felt a bit drowsy and spaced out a lot (probably because of noting silently for too long). Eventually there was some more clarity, and I noticed a calm feeling, wellbeing, acceptance, curiosity, and a bit of distant humming.
I'm feeling very motivated and enthusiastic about meditation again. This morning I was already looking forward to my evening sit
I guess that's a good sign.
Last night I sat for 30 minutes: 10 minutes shamatha and 20 minutes noting (aloud and silently). I went up to my cutting edge pretty fast, and watched all the pleasant vibrations. I could have sat longer, but due to other plans, I got up (too) soon.
This morning I had a 55 minute sit
About 15 minutes shamatha
The rest of the sit noting (mostly aloud)
It was a pretty difficult sit with a lot of aversion and restlessness. I did eventually seem to get up to equanimity, with more calm and acceptance, and some vibrations.
This evening I meditated for 45 minutes:
About 15 minutes shamatha
30 minutes noting (mostly silently)
Concentrating on my breath was very easy (it tends to be pretty easy in the evening, don't know why). But when I started noting, I felt a bit drowsy and spaced out a lot (probably because of noting silently for too long). Eventually there was some more clarity, and I noticed a calm feeling, wellbeing, acceptance, curiosity, and a bit of distant humming.
I'm feeling very motivated and enthusiastic about meditation again. This morning I was already looking forward to my evening sit
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #84339
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Wednesday and thursday I had very difficult sits, especially in the morning: tons of tension, aversion and impatience. I did manage to sit 90 minutes a day. Today I had 4 sits: 50, 25, 20 and 35 minutes. In my morning sit I managed to get through the muck and into lower equanimity. I just finished my last sit of the day. First I did a bit of shamatha: my attention was fixed on my breath pretty tightly, and when I switched to noting, I noticed anticipation and tingling. What happened after that is a bit blurry, but I do remember that my legs became very restless and there was a growing feeling of impatience. It was very difficult for me not to give in to this, but eventually the resistance droppes away and it felt much lighter. My mind became more still and eventually I stopped noting and stayed present with whatever came up. It was all okay.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 3 weeks ago #84340
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Still sitting at least 90 minutes a day: my morning sits typically last 45-60 minutes, afternoon/evening sits 30-45 minutes. I've downloaded the Meditation Helper Pro app for Android (I saw AndyW45 suggesting it somewere on the forum), and this app is really motivating me not to break my chain of sitting at least 90 minutes a day. Before, when I reached equanimity in my sits, a lack of continuity and momentum caused me to relapse to re-observation again, so hopefully this will help me to keep my momentum.
Most sits end up pleasantly calm, clear, vibrational, but some sits are very difficult to get through, with a lot of frustration and impatience, or just boredom.
This morning I sat for just over 50 minutes.
20 minutes shamatha
30 minutes noting (mostly aloud)
About 5 minutes before I switched to noting, there was a pretty pleasant warm tingling on my skin, and I saw some flickering light. After starting noting, I noticed worrying, tension in my stomach, regret, sadness, tension in my chest, pain in my back, remembering, annoyance, judgments, resistance, impatience. Then more acceptance, the resistance fell away, and I just watched the thoughts, feelings and physical stuff do their thing. Interpreting, mapping thoughts, boredom, more stillness, gradually less thoughts and more vibrations, wonder, relaxation, calm, wondering what to do, letting go, dropping the noting gradually (first noting silently, then noting less frequant, and eventually I stopped noting entirely). Eventually my mind became more active again, I noticed some restlessness and pain in my back, and shortly after that I got up.
Most sits end up pleasantly calm, clear, vibrational, but some sits are very difficult to get through, with a lot of frustration and impatience, or just boredom.
This morning I sat for just over 50 minutes.
20 minutes shamatha
30 minutes noting (mostly aloud)
About 5 minutes before I switched to noting, there was a pretty pleasant warm tingling on my skin, and I saw some flickering light. After starting noting, I noticed worrying, tension in my stomach, regret, sadness, tension in my chest, pain in my back, remembering, annoyance, judgments, resistance, impatience. Then more acceptance, the resistance fell away, and I just watched the thoughts, feelings and physical stuff do their thing. Interpreting, mapping thoughts, boredom, more stillness, gradually less thoughts and more vibrations, wonder, relaxation, calm, wondering what to do, letting go, dropping the noting gradually (first noting silently, then noting less frequant, and eventually I stopped noting entirely). Eventually my mind became more active again, I noticed some restlessness and pain in my back, and shortly after that I got up.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 3 weeks ago #84341
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Today I had a 50 and a 40 minute sit. In both sit, I went to my cutting edge pretty quickly, ending with pretty much everything feeling/looking/sounding vibratory, but it was hard not to drift off into thoughts/fantasies.
- Aquanin
- Topic Author
13 years 3 weeks ago #84342
by Aquanin
Replied by Aquanin on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
"but it was hard not to drift off into thoughts/fantasies. "
That's ok, happened all the time in EQ for me. Just keep bringing you attention back when you notice it. No need to fight the thought, etc.
That's ok, happened all the time in EQ for me. Just keep bringing you attention back when you notice it. No need to fight the thought, etc.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 3 weeks ago #84343
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
This morning I meditated for 70 minutes (15-20 minutes shamatha; the rest of the sit noting, mostly aloud). The last 40 minutes or so, I mostly noticed vibrations, humming, calm. There was also pressure in my forehead, which was still pretty solid. There were some thoughts and fantasies, but I just noticed them, without drifting off.
I just read through my practice thread, and I saw there were two periods (in march and may) in which I got into the same territory as now (mid/high equanimity). In both periods I felt like I was very close to stream entry, but I eventually lost my motivation and got bored and impatient, resulting in less frequent and shorter sits, and 'falling out of equanimity'. So I know what I have to do now: keep sitting at least twice a day, keep the momentum, and try not to have too many expectations about my progress.
I just read through my practice thread, and I saw there were two periods (in march and may) in which I got into the same territory as now (mid/high equanimity). In both periods I felt like I was very close to stream entry, but I eventually lost my motivation and got bored and impatient, resulting in less frequent and shorter sits, and 'falling out of equanimity'. So I know what I have to do now: keep sitting at least twice a day, keep the momentum, and try not to have too many expectations about my progress.
- Antero.
- Topic Author
13 years 3 weeks ago #84344
by Antero.
Replied by Antero. on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
" So I know what I have to do now: keep sitting at least twice a day, keep the momentum, and try not to have too many expectations about my progress.
- Marc R"
That's the spirit. You can do this, Marc!
- Marc R"
That's the spirit. You can do this, Marc!
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84345
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Okay, new update: I've meditated 90 minutes each day, but it feels like I'm slipping out of Equanimity again. My sits are full of frustration, impatience and physical discomfort, and the equanimity at the end of the sits seems to go less deep than before. I'm feeling less motivated the last couple of days, but I won't skip sits or meditate for shorter periods because of this. I do wonder if I'll get back into the groove soon though. Letting go of expectations is more difficult than it sounds.
- giragirasol
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84346
by giragirasol
Replied by giragirasol on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
It's good practice for another reason: because you are going to have many similar periods in the future, and learning to sit through them and even find a sort of amusement, curiosity and wonder about the boredom, laxness, impatience, frustration etc is a valuable skill.
This may be about a goal, in a sense, but it's also about literally learning to practice with whatever comes up, no matter what it is. *That* is the attitude that will serve you again and again.
- jgroove
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84347
by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Impressive, Marc. Way to go!
- betawave
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84348
by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Remember, your mind will go to the problems you need to see. You don't need to try to get to equanimity or any other state, you will be led by the mind to what you need to be aware of. It is NOT YOUR FAULT if what arises is anything other than equanimity. Even equanimity isn't a destination. There are flaws/imperfections in the state of equanimity that need to be seen through, too. Even though equanimity is supposedly on the threshold of stream entry, you only need to touch EQ for a moment before jumping off into SE. So no reason to think you need to be grooving there. There is no groove to get into except momentary awareness of this moment. Get used to noting frustation, impatience, discomfort, and lack of motivation --- those sensations are very interesting if you look closely, don't be thrown off by their surface appearance. You can do this! It's just about the basics!
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84349
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Wow, that is some very useful advice, betawave! I don't have to make equanimity 'happen', that good to keep in mind. That, and what Ona said about similar periods in the future, is good to remember when sits feel frustrating. I read your post a few times yesterday before meditating in the train, and it was a pretty interesting sit (50 minutes). I tried to pay attention without manipulating the experience, and it felt much more effortless than usual. Pretty much everything was vibrating very subtly, probably more than I've ever been aware of before. At the same time, I noticed very, very subtle and fine processes of clinging and aversion. It didn't feel frustrating or even unpleasant though, because I felt totally okay with the whole experience (noted 'OK-ness' a lot, for lack of a better word). After about 10 (?) minutes, I became aware of some pressure in my third eye area, which became more intense, but also broke down into very fine vibrations. My attention rested on this pretty naturally, but I was also still very broadly aware of the rest of the experience of sitting, feeling, hearing, seeing, thinking, emotions etc. The vibrations intensified and I noticed anticipation and excitement. My heart started to beat fast and hard, but it felt like I was looking at all this excitement from a distance. The excitement and anticipation subsided, but the tingling/vibrating pressure stayed, and eventually the train arrived at the station.
- betawave
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84350
by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Awesome. That sounds like the first of several near misses you will probably have before SE. There will be relaxation and then as sense of acceleration and things will feel close and there will be excitement and you have to not cling to that too! You have to look/note the feelings of excitement, too.
You might get a blank out, too, and those can be near misses. The rule stays the same, just be aware of what is happening without trying to change it. No such thing as progress. There is just right now. If you have a near miss, just pick up practice again, no big deal. Don't worry all of us have near misses, so no need to ever feel guilty or ashamed of missing.
Now that you have had that experience, you might get the sense that ---ironically--- that the averse sensations are actually intriguing because when they are experienced closely they turn into very bizzare and interesting vibrations. It's true! And they can be the expressway to stream entry and beyond. It's like you are getting purified in this very moment, just by fully experiencing them! That's why buddha wanted us to be very clear about the first noble truth: all experiences are at least a little bit annoying if not yucky sometimes... but freedom is found by watching those experiences closely without a desire to change them! It's so important to get that. The path is through those experiences, not trying to find a way around them, not trying to find a way to avoid them.
By the way, you did GREAT staying/noting with the feelings of "OK-ness" --- that where people often get stuck in low equanimity for a long time.
It's just a matter of time if you keep practicing, nice and steady.
Now that you have had that experience, you might get the sense that ---ironically--- that the averse sensations are actually intriguing because when they are experienced closely they turn into very bizzare and interesting vibrations. It's true! And they can be the expressway to stream entry and beyond. It's like you are getting purified in this very moment, just by fully experiencing them! That's why buddha wanted us to be very clear about the first noble truth: all experiences are at least a little bit annoying if not yucky sometimes... but freedom is found by watching those experiences closely without a desire to change them! It's so important to get that. The path is through those experiences, not trying to find a way around them, not trying to find a way to avoid them.
By the way, you did GREAT staying/noting with the feelings of "OK-ness" --- that where people often get stuck in low equanimity for a long time.
It's just a matter of time if you keep practicing, nice and steady.
- jgroove
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84351
by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
""..you might get the sense that ---ironically--- the averse sensations are actually intriguing because when they are experienced closely they turn into very bizzare and interesting vibrations.... It's like you are getting purified in this very moment, just by fully experiencing them! .. all experiences are at least a little bit annoying if not yucky sometimes... but freedom is found by watching those experiences closely without a desire to change them! It's so important to get that. The path is through those experiences, not trying to find a way around them, not trying to find a way to avoid them."
"By the way, you did GREAT staying/noting with the feelings of "OK-ness" --- that where people often get stuck in low equanimity for a long time."
"
Loved this, Betawave.
Reminded me of Chris's three rules:
Rule #1 -- follow and investigate any discomfort you feel about anything
Rule #2 -- if you feel no discomfort, wait a couple seconds
Rule #3 -- repeat rule #1
"By the way, you did GREAT staying/noting with the feelings of "OK-ness" --- that where people often get stuck in low equanimity for a long time."
"
Loved this, Betawave.
Reminded me of Chris's three rules:
Rule #1 -- follow and investigate any discomfort you feel about anything
Rule #2 -- if you feel no discomfort, wait a couple seconds
Rule #3 -- repeat rule #1
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84352
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
"No such thing as progress. There is just right now. "
Thanks again for your feedback, betawave, I really apreciate your help! This phrase really resonated with me, because it often feels like I have to make an effort to make progress. The sits in which I end up in high equanimity seem to be the ones where I really just pay attention, without expecting certain things.
Oh, and Joel, thanks for pointing out those three rules: I remembered them a few times during my last sit and it seemed like this investigating attitude helped against spacing out.
Quick update: just sat for 60 minutes. Went up to my cutting edge, with everything vibrating, but also many thoughts. I did manage to note them most of the time. It was a very pleasant sit.
I'm going to spend the next five days with my family, and I hope my practice won't suffer from that. I'm still determined to keep sitting at least 90 minutes a day.
Thanks again for your feedback, betawave, I really apreciate your help! This phrase really resonated with me, because it often feels like I have to make an effort to make progress. The sits in which I end up in high equanimity seem to be the ones where I really just pay attention, without expecting certain things.
Oh, and Joel, thanks for pointing out those three rules: I remembered them a few times during my last sit and it seemed like this investigating attitude helped against spacing out.
Quick update: just sat for 60 minutes. Went up to my cutting edge, with everything vibrating, but also many thoughts. I did manage to note them most of the time. It was a very pleasant sit.
I'm going to spend the next five days with my family, and I hope my practice won't suffer from that. I'm still determined to keep sitting at least 90 minutes a day.
- betawave
- Topic Author
13 years 2 weeks ago #84353
by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
So, one last little bit of advice... Thoughts are NOT a problem. They arise on their own, so you can treat them like any other sensations. They are like sounds, body sensations, images. Many people have gotten stream entry by reaching high eq and then taking thoughts themselves as the meditation object. Noting "the mind stream". Asking themselves, at the same pace normal noting, "I wonder what my next thought will be?"
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 3 days ago #84354
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Still sitting 90 minutes a day, but much more boredom and impatience again. Less frustration however. I've noticed that my evening sits are more difficult than my morning sits now. Right now I'm a bit sick, which makes it a bit more challenging to stay on the cushion.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
13 years 9 hours ago #84355
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
This morning I sat for 70 minutes.
20 minutes shamatha
50 minutes noting (first aloud, eventually silently)
Concentrating on my breath felt more effortless than usual, it was pretty pleasant. Just before I switched to noting, there was some tingling through my body. After that a lot of thinking, various emotional states and some aversion/resistance and physical discomfort. The last 30 (?) minutes pretty much all of these sensations dropped away or broke up into vibrations, and I really enjoyed just sitting and observing. There were a few moments where I wasn't sure whether it was best to drop noting entirely. That's still a tricky balance.
After getting up, I felt a bit spaced out (still after a few hours).
Before dinner I sat for another 30 minutes: a lot of aversion, restlessness and drowsiness.
20 minutes shamatha
50 minutes noting (first aloud, eventually silently)
Concentrating on my breath felt more effortless than usual, it was pretty pleasant. Just before I switched to noting, there was some tingling through my body. After that a lot of thinking, various emotional states and some aversion/resistance and physical discomfort. The last 30 (?) minutes pretty much all of these sensations dropped away or broke up into vibrations, and I really enjoyed just sitting and observing. There were a few moments where I wasn't sure whether it was best to drop noting entirely. That's still a tricky balance.
After getting up, I felt a bit spaced out (still after a few hours).
Before dinner I sat for another 30 minutes: a lot of aversion, restlessness and drowsiness.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
12 years 11 months ago #84356
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Two sits today: 50 minutes this morning (pretty similar to yesterday morning) and 40 minutes this evening (more impatience and very restless legs, but to my surprise I managed to really surrender).
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
12 years 11 months ago #84357
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
Yesterday I sat twice: 70 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening. The morning sit was very spacious and pleasant, and in the evening there was a lot of restlessness and aversion.
I also skyped with Ron last night, which was very useful. Balancing effort and openness/surrendering when I'm in equanimity is a bit of a challenge for me lately, and Ron gave me some good tips for that, like continuing noting longer than I usually do (to prevent spacing out).
This morning I sat for 90 minutes (20 minutes shamatha, 70 minutes noting, mostly aloud). Concentrating on my breath was pretty easy and enjoyable, and when I switched to noting, I went up to my cutting edge very quickly. I hung out in equanimity for a long while, most of the time noting, but a few times dropping the noting. It felt like a pretty natural balance. Pretty much all the physical sensations seemed to vibrate, and there was a bit of vibrating pressure between my eyebrows. I didn't space out this time, but my attention felt a bit slippery.
I also skyped with Ron last night, which was very useful. Balancing effort and openness/surrendering when I'm in equanimity is a bit of a challenge for me lately, and Ron gave me some good tips for that, like continuing noting longer than I usually do (to prevent spacing out).
This morning I sat for 90 minutes (20 minutes shamatha, 70 minutes noting, mostly aloud). Concentrating on my breath was pretty easy and enjoyable, and when I switched to noting, I went up to my cutting edge very quickly. I hung out in equanimity for a long while, most of the time noting, but a few times dropping the noting. It felt like a pretty natural balance. Pretty much all the physical sensations seemed to vibrate, and there was a bit of vibrating pressure between my eyebrows. I didn't space out this time, but my attention felt a bit slippery.
- Marc_R
- Topic Author
12 years 11 months ago #84358
by Marc_R
Replied by Marc_R on topic RE: Marc's practice notes
I just sat for 67 minutes (20 minutes shamatha, the rest of the sit noting, mostly aloud). The last 30 minutes or so I noticed mostly vibrations and pleasantness. There was some pressure between my eyebrows, which was very vibratory. My attention rested on this vibrating spot, and I noticed that the intensity increases. There was a lot of anticipation and a bit of excitement, but I did stay pretty calm and present. The anticipation subsided as the pressure became less intense. It felt like I was very close...
