Russell's practice thread

Hi. I am new here. I have been doing concentration practice for about 8-9 months and really getting into some interesting territory that made me realize how real this stuff is. I started out by reading some basic Buddhism books then, being the practical guy that I am, stumbled upon Buddhist Geeks, then Daniel's Book, then found Shinzen and Kenneth and through this is site I found Ron Crouch, who I just had my first lesson with last night (Thanks Ron!) If feel like it is time for me to get into vipassana and see where this takes me. So I will be trying to do my best to keep a log here. Next post coming soon.

Hi Russel, welcome to KFD! You'll get a lot of good advice and support here.

Welcome!

"getting into some interesting territory that made me realize how real this stuff is. "

Too real! Welcome

Alright, first true vipassana sit. About 35 minutes. Noted like crazy, it seemed to flow pretty well, but because of my somewhat limited noting vocabulary it seems a lot of the same notes were popping up. Especially physical sensations such as itching, tension, pressure, tingling (in my hands and at forehead), hearing, lights, spinning, squinting. Emotions such as self-doubt, frustration and aversion were popping up. Noting mental phenomenon is hard for me but I did note visualizing, reflection, remembering, judging. I also noted several times that I was "hunting" for things to note. I tried to add in whether the sensations were pleasant, neutral, or unpleasant when I remembered to.

All in all it was a good sit for about 25 minutes when one of my kids started playing music in their room and the baby monitor was on in the room I was meditating in. I mindfully got up and turned it off, (noting frustrating here) and sat back down and continued for another 15 minutes. I did get the nice tingling in my hands and general concentrated relaxed feel that I do get when doing regular concentration practice. I expected to be more frustrated the first time but it went pretty well.

Note to readers, I have experienced some of this rising pleasure that I am about to describe later in this thread before while doing concentration practice. I was struggling with making it return and frustrated with no progress until tonight.

OK another 30 minute sit after a rough, frustrating day with the kids.. Had a harder time noting at first so I noted rising, falling a lot. Coolness in my nostrils, pressure on my seat. Itching, visualizing, self-doubt, embarrassment, self-evaluation, hunting. The tingling in my forehead seemed like molecules were vibrating. Started to get the numbness, tingling in my hands rather quickly, almost like they disappear. Noted tingling, pleasurable, pressure.

Then suddenly I got a tingling/itching right at the top of my head (never had this before) and noted it and stayed with it a bit, noticed it wasn't going away. Noted tingling, neutral, investigating. Then I got a wave of pleasure rising up tried to note through it but, notice a slight smile, tension, investigation, bright lights, then it calmed down, noted darkness, frustration (that it went away). Anyways, good sit this time. Can't wait to keep trying. I am also noting during the day when i can, especially when I have anxiety (it seems to help a lot)

Another sit tonight. Not as eventful as last nights, but i did have the starts of some of the raptures I was having last night. Very pleasurable. Less itching, noted more pressure in the forehead, tingling, vibrating. Asked myself, who is noting this?

It seems when I shift my focus to the vibratory aspect and try to pick it apart, thats when the raptures and lights begin, but I quickly lose them because I tend to focus on the feeling of the raptures. After they went away noted: frustrated, self-doubt, darkness, grasping. Then acceptance and I continued until my daughter opened the door to my room. I really should lock that door or find a more private place. I'll try this again tomorrow, but something feels a bit unfinished about that sit.

Deleted. double post.

Oh, the joys of meditating with a child in the house! . I've had that happen.

Yeah, it can be frustrating. Speaking of frustrating. I have been pretty agitated for the last few days. I don't like to guess where I am on the path but maybe this is 3C's and a taste of A&P?

There are others far more able than I to address this, but I'd say your experience of vibrating on the surface of your skin is a good sign of progress. You may be nudging into A&P territory with the lights flashing--that's usually a pretty good sign.

Wishing for good experiences and getting frustrated when they don't happen is typical of all of us. People always advise me to retain an attitude of openness to whatever happens, even disappointing sits. I'm beginning to compare the path to the game of golf--you can hit a beautiful drive off the first tee, then get a lovely fareway shot, then slice it into the woods, wind up on the next shot in a sand trap, and take 10 shots getting out--LOL. Then you'll sink a beautiful putt and think you're a god again. There's always something new and different, some of it boring, some of it downright unpleasant.

Thanks for the tips. I just sat for 45 minutes. More raptures and lights, it seems things are speeding up and i feel like I tend to note them after they happen, almost like i can't keep up. I keep feeling self-doubt, almost like I am making up all of this as a story in my head. Hard to explain. Almost like I feel like 'x' should be happening and bam there it is. Did I make that happen or are things progressing like I keep reading about?

One time I got a bright light in front of me and noticed flickering in it like little specks moving around and the rapture followed but it never last for very long. I can't just sit in that rapturous state. It usually only happens strongly once per sit and once it goes away it won't fully come back. I really do feel good after a sit though.

Shorter sit tonight. I don't know why, but I felt like I was done for some reason after 25 mins or so. Been having a bit of a destabilizing time off the cushion so I was very eager to sit today. Been very agitated and confused at times. It seems when I sit now I get concentrated very quickly and cycle up to the bright lights and flashing rather quickly but they still fade fast. I had a stomach ache going in to my sit so it was distracting at first but i just noted it and as i noted other sensations, the stomach pain subsided. The mind is very powerful.

Noting thought sensations is still the hardest thing for me. I seem to note them way after I experience them. Like for example I imagine my wife, but I am still noting physical sensations, but then I almost go...Ohh yeah, imaging thought. Tomorrow I will be focusing on noting during the destabilizing times during the day.

Added Note for myself: Heartbeat pulsing in ears is prominent at first then ringing in ears is more prominent, then the ringing seems to change in pitch, pulsing maybe. hard to describe.

30 minutes tonight while my wife showered so I sat in a different room than usual, it made me feel more vulnerable so It was a little bit of a disappointing sit, but I seemed to notice some cycles occurring. First start sitting, did a small amount of just concentration practice then begin noting, sometimes I start noting without realizing it. Noted tension around my eyes, then things start itching, then the itches turn to tingles and kind of grow. Started to get the lights and pleasurable feelings, then my visual field (with my eyes closed) went dark and my nose was twitching like crazy. Things calmed down again and started getting the itching then bright lights again, then darkness. Feels like some sort of cycle of the 1st 4 nanas, but its hard to tell. I'm trying not to label where I on the path am and just keep doing it. It was a little frustrating at time though this sit. When sudden noises happen my body jolts a little bit, like an electric shock, then I usually try to note 'hearing', 'startled.' I feel like something has been left on the table the last couple of sits. I need to try to find time to sit during the day too.

And so it goes....

Another day, another sit last night. I still have the strong desire to practice, but it is seeming less interesting when i do sit. Still feels like cycling happening when I sit but buiding slower. When I was done with 30 minutes or so, I still felt "un-done" but relaxed. I was planning to sit again after i read a bit at night but I got too sleepy.

I can't know for sure where you are, but if you're passing through A&P, it would be natural to go into a calmer and spacier place afterward.

Furthermore, that calmer, spacier place involves a kind of natural panoramic attention.

When you first encounter that, you'll think that you're losing all your concentration, because it's very easy to be distracted, when data comes from all directions. It's actually progress, but at first it feels like backsliding.

See what happens if, when you feel like you're losing the thread, you open yourself up to sound from all over. See if hearing seems more "3D".

At this point, you'll probably have to get used to the idea that a sitting session won't necessarily "stabilize" you or provide you with calm.

In fact, you might start to feel roadbumps in the couple of hours after you sit, because you'll still keep arcing through the "nana" trajectory even after you end a formal session. You might need to practice a bit of extra patience with people around you.

Keep in mind: when you decide to get up from a sit, you're stepping off of a moving train

Thanks for the suggestions Rob, I will try that tonight.

I emailed Ron about this this other day. I am one cranky dude during the day lately and I really have to watch it and realize what I am doing. I don't necessarily "see" the cycling all day, but I think I am going through it all day. There will be moments where I am very calm and relaxed and then moments where the littlest thing will frustrate the hell out of me. He suggested I take a step back and ask myself where the emotions are coming from etc... and also noting during the day helps me get out of the self fulfilling feedback loops.

"but I think I am going through it all day"

Yes, I think so- we like to formalize this thing with the insight maps and all, but the fact is, once you crack the eggshell of your perception at A&P, you can cycle- actually, I would even say zigzag- all over the territory. The sense of "progress" on the maps, and patterns in your practice, is something you only really get to see in retrospect.

Everything you've reported above is a sign of solid, effective practice. Keep it up!

By the way, I love Laurel's very apt golf analogy, above. I would just add this nuance: later on, you'll realize that you got a hole-in-one at every stroke, and just didn't know it

Hah, I love the golf analogies.

Another 30 minute sit last night. You are right, I start off noting ok then it seem to get a lot harder and i start missing this and and that but then note it way after it happened, especially thoughts and mental imagery. I built up a lot of concentration over the previous months, so following thoughts etc has not been a problem for me but I noticed myself following a few thought trails. I can't seem to stay in the the A&P like moments for as long anymore, but I do become rather relaxed and blissful, although still a bit unsatisfied. Woke up this morning with what I thought was a headache and my hips aching like I was getting ready to come down with a cold or the flu, but I feel fine now.

Another sit tonight. 25-30 minutes. Started with a little bit of concentration practice and began noting. I am starting to get less and less of the A&P like raptures and then I get into a still blissful, but very chilled out state where it seems like I can no longer note properly, or like I am lazy about it. Almost feels like I am falling asleep but I am not. I kind of catch myself, not noting things, etc... A bit frustrating but I'm not letting it bother me. It seems to line up with Dissolution but until I talk to Ron again, I'm not making any assumptions. Could be that I am just not as focused today or something.

Had a horribly anxious day today for no reason at all. After a nice relaxed morning, I took one of my daughters to the supermarket and just about turned around because of extreme anxiety. Never been anxious like that at the store. Very odd for it to pop up randomly like that. It was hard to try to note through it with my daughter there, but I pushed through quickly and got the heck out of there. 30 minute sit tonight. More of the same for the sit. The brighter lights and raptures are still toned down but i do feel nice and blissful although frustrated during the sit.

I have a theory. I think I got to A&P about a month or 2 ago just doing concentration practices because now that i look back there was a lot of investigation and noticing sensations as they raised while trying to build my concentration. I think then I was slipping in to Dissolution until I started vipassana. Now the path is showing itself to me and i am recognizing the cycle. I can't wait to have my Skype session with Ron later this week.

When I wrote that thing last week about appearing to lose concentration even though you are really gaining a new kind of panoramic attention, I was taking it as a working hypothesis that you were hitting Dissolution. So it'd be natural if you started hitiing Fear.

For me, when the nana of Fear hit, it hit fast- an instantaneous attack of objectless anxiety. It's quite likely that other "dark night" nanas will unfold in coming days- they tend to morph, unfolding one to the other, in a fairly short sequence, until Re-Observation. This may include feelings of sadness, nostalgia, loss of appetite and/or libido, wanting to give up everything and go off somewhere alone, wanting to stop meditating...

Do what you can to watch what happens in your body when you're experiencing the hard stuff, rather than focus on the emotional effect.

Think of qualities that you can observe that aren't emotionanlly charged, such as, "Do I feel it in my throat? My chest? Do I feel it a lot or a little?"

Of course you can't be 100% dispassionate about these phenomena, but do what you can to keep a little distance and a sense of humour.

Courage! These things can be freaky as heck, but they come and go.

Rob, thanks so much. Your posts have been extremely helpful. I have had problems with anxiety in the past so this is nothing new, but when it is completely unwarrented and objectless is what freaks me out. Pretty much been on edge all day today as well. Not fun, and hard not to let it take me over but i'm doing my best to try to take a step back.

So sorry to hear about your anxiety (or I should say I'm not sorry because it's progress; but then I am sympathizing because it feels awful). I've been having the same thing happen; on Saturday I almost thought I was suffering from agoraphobia, like getting anywhere outside of my (very narrow) comfort zone would prompt an attack. There is though as you say an impersonal quality about it, and at the time I just sat with it. I've been back and forth with this stuff a lot over the past few months. It's not only painful to experience, but also really hard to explain to other people.

@Rob: I am not yet at the point where I can see that everything is really a hole-in-one . Right now I feel like I'm off in the rough and can't even find the damn ball half the time!

Thanks for the encouragement. After my sit last night, which really seemed uneventful. Feels like anything A&P like is a distant memory. I do get pleasurable feelings but nothing A&P like, some strobing of lights in my visual field like they start out close and move out into the distance in waves. After my sit, I watched some TV with my wife and had the most miserable jaw pain and tension that I can ever remember having. Also felt more of that hip pain/uncomfortableness that I sometimes associate with feeling like I am going to get a cold or the flu. It's that achy feeling before you are going to get sick. I had a short sit this morning. Like 15 minutes, not much to report other than afterwards I took a shower and kind of felt an acceptace about all this "crap" and that I know it will go away if I just keep at it. I re-read Ron's descriptions of the dark night stages on his site and the more and more I look at this, the more and more I keep thinking I have been Dark Night cycling for a long time (up to 2 years even) and just not "seeing" it for how it is/was until now. I feel more of an acceptance today, but I still feel like hell. Just a heavy sinking feeling mixed with dizziness, nausea, etc... I'm gonna bust through this thing no matter what it takes!!!