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A beginners Journal

  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70136 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
40m today
Been averaging 1 1/2 hrs/day this week. A lot of doubt,self-doubt, frustration, anger. I don't think this is a good time to be trying to change my focus, I've abandoned my abdomen, for now.
Feel kinda lost in this all, and lonely, which I never feel. I sit on my butt and stare at myself?? And then I write down what happened. Usually the same thing every time. Strange behaviour.

It just occurred to me that I feel like I'm in the middle, half way to...something. I think this is the stage where I know just enough to be dangerous. I feel pretty good, why bother with any more struggle? Just stay here, that would be nice, and easy. But impossible I'm guessing. Just feel lost. Blaahhh.
  • Rob_Mtl
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15 years 3 months ago #70137 by Rob_Mtl
Replied by Rob_Mtl on topic RE: A beginners Journal
"I feel pretty good, why bother with any more struggle?"

An excellent question! You're absolutely right, don't bother with any more struggle. But keep sitting!
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70138 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal

Rob, lol exactly the kind of answer I needed to hear, Thanks.
Today experienced something new. Sat with my breath and after about 30 minutes the subject/object split just disappeared. One moment I was looking at the breath and the next moment I was the breath. I seemed to be moving/flowing just as the breath does. Now, it just seems almost like it was a dream, the way flying can feel real in a dream but when you wake up it doesn't seem like a big deal. It was disorienting and only lasted about 5 seconds. But it makes me think maybe I am doing this right.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70139 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
An average sit for me lately is 45 minutes and follows the same basic pattern. I settle quickly,1-2 minutes usually. Lightly following the breath, as an anchor in case my mind wanders, I begin to feel pleasant vibrations/energy on the skin. These last 3-5 minutes then fade and I'm left quiet for a short time. I then often notice thoughts arising and have tightness in my jaw and lately have experienced slight quivering of my lips and tightness of the face muscles around the mouth, like I've been smiling a long time and the muscles are tired. This can last a few minutes to, rarely, the rest of my sit. The next phase presents lights in the visual field and energy throughout the body, the energy is sometimes strong, sometimes very subtle. If strong my posture is realigned, if subtle I hardly notice it and wonder if it's actually there. I then pass into a pleasant and still phase, sometimes for a few minutes, occasionally longer. I feel very peaceful at this point and is the most pleasant phase I experience on a regular basis. If things change from here, everything goes to hell. No discomfort, becomes pain in a single breath, usually in the knees and hips, occasionally lower back. It becomes distracting and my mind begins to follow the thoughts that arise occasionally. My peace and quiet is broken up with physical pain and pointless thoughts. Lately the pain in my legs has been enough to make me get up before my timer goes off. If I stick with it I sometimes come to a the most pleasant phase of my meditation. The pain disappears as quickly as it appeared and the thoughts just fade away, like someone slowly turned down the volume on a radio. I'm then left with an open awareness of my breath, I'm not looking at the breath but just kind of with the breath. Not sure how to explain that one. This is my seated practice for about the last month. Within this general pattern is endless variation, but the above is the average.
Cont.
  • mumuwu
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70140 by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: A beginners Journal
This is a beautiful report.

Could you talk more about the pain/distracted/etc, section of the sit more?

Are you seeing any signs of anxiety with that, any pattern within that chaos?
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70141 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
My practice off the cushion has been the same for the past couple months, it seems to be basically what Kenneth has been talking about recently. I try to maintain an awareness of my entire body. I experience this mostly as being aware of pleasant vibrations/tingling on the surface of the skin. The past month or so I've become aware of how much physical contraction takes place when I experience emotion, especially negative. I've had the experience of noticing this emotion and accompanying physical sensation arise simultaneously, this almost instantly releases the tension and 'unties' the knot of the emotion.
This sounds wonderful but is frustratingly rare in my daily practice. All these things happen, but not often. I usually lose track of my body and get caught up in my thoughts and emotions. I then become angry with myself and regrettably take it out on those around me, general bitchiness, like a child having a tantrum. I think my own expectations of what my practice should be is currently my biggest enemy.
This is my current practice and has been, with a couple misguided forays into new stuff, for a couple months.
  • RevElev
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15 years 3 months ago #70142 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
Hi Mu,
Definitely anxiety with the pain. Like something beautiful I've built is falling apart before my eyes and I'm trying to keep it together. Maybe a sense of loss or grief almost. I haven't noticed a pattern in the chaos, like watching a storm. I always mena to, but never do.
  • mumuwu
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70143 by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: A beginners Journal
As the paths progress, the ability to maintain mindfulness of the body and non-reactivity tend to increase.

If you can't get into that sort of mode, just switch back to noting. Lately I find myself just noting the sense door that is prevalent in the attention for a while does a good job at bringing me back to a place where 2nd or 3rd gear stuff is more affective.

So if I look at the screen I notice that I am seeing (seeing), then I am suddenly aware my hands on the keyboard (feeling), a slight/sharp pain around my solar plexus (feeling), sounds in the hall (hearing) and just keep doing that. Then I can switch to the witness of all this for a while, then perhaps try having an open awareness grounded in the body (if not gear down)
  • mumuwu
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70144 by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: A beginners Journal
An average sit for me lately is 45 minutes and follows the same basic pattern. I settle quickly,1-2 minutes usually. Lightly following the breath, as an anchor in case my mind wanders, I begin to feel pleasant vibrations/energy on the skin.
---Mind and body

These last 3-5 minutes then fade and I'm left quiet for a short time. I then often notice thoughts arising
---cause and effect

and have tightness in my jaw and lately have experienced slight quivering of my lips and tightness of the face muscles around the mouth, like I've been smiling a long time and the muscles are tired. This can last a few minutes to, rarely, the rest of my sit.
---3 characteristics

The next phase presents lights in the visual field and energy throughout the body, the energy is sometimes strong, sometimes very subtle. If strong my posture is realigned, if subtle I hardly notice it and wonder if it's actually there.
---A&P

I then pass into a pleasant and still phase, sometimes for a few minutes, occasionally longer. I feel very peaceful at this point and is the most pleasant phase I experience on a regular basis.
---Dissolution

If things change from here, everything goes to hell. No discomfort, becomes pain in a single breath, usually in the knees and hips, occasionally lower back. It becomes distracting and my mind begins to follow the thoughts that arise occasionally. My peace and quiet is broken up with physical pain and pointless thoughts...
---dukkha nanas

If I stick with it I sometimes come to a the most pleasant phase of my meditation. The pain disappears as quickly as it appeared and the thoughts just fade away, like someone slowly turned down the volume on a radio. I'm then left with an open awareness of my breath, I'm not looking at the breath but just kind of with the breath.
---Equanimity (or perhaps a dropping back down dissolution??)
  • mumuwu
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70145 by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: A beginners Journal
Can you talk about the difference between the last phase and what I've labeled as dissolution?
  • RevElev
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15 years 3 months ago #70146 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
Definitely a different feel, dissolution is peaceful in the way that I feel peaceful on a Sunday afternoon in the park. Very nice, but superficial. The last phase is a more profound peace, it doesn't line up with anything I've experienced in daily life. It feels like the stillness reaches significantly deeper level of 'me'. I also feel closer, or more intimate, with the breath.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70147 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
Is it safe to assume that the practice that got me to this point will be adequate, with continued practice, to get me to Stream Entry??
  • mumuwu
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15 years 3 months ago #70148 by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: A beginners Journal
It seems to be that accessing high equanimity and then hanging out there is what it takes really.

How much time of your sitting are you spending in the last phase you describe?
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70149 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
On a good day, maybe 4 times/ week, about 15 minutes.
  • NikolaiStephenHalay
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15 years 3 months ago #70150 by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: A beginners Journal
"Is it safe to assume that the practice that got me to this point will be adequate, with continued practice, to get me to Stream Entry??"

Yes indeed! Keep doing wht you are doing. You seem to have touched on the 11th. Now you want to keep cutting out a clear path so that you master the 11th. when that happens, plop!

Looking forward to you getting it done!

:)
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70151 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
"

Looking forward to you getting it done!

:)"

Not as much as me!! :)

Thanks.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70152 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
1/14/11
Good sit. Didn't get out of DN, and suffered like a bugger. But, saw the nana's clearly(I think). Dissolution(?) was very pleasant. Also seemed to dismantle an emotion.
Sad today, all day. Tried to sit, but was too tired after work. Slept for a while then tried again. Sat and looked at the body. Noticed that the sadness seemed to be mostly at the sternum, a ball of pressure/stress. Also noticed tightness in the shoulders and upper spine. Once I noticed these two locations the "emotion" of sadness seemed to disappear. The physical sensations were exactly the same, but I no longer felt sad. I sat with the pressure for about 10-15m and it seemed to slowly break up. My sternum became Very itchy and the pressure just slowly faded away. I'm no longer sad, actually feel pretty good. Crazy stuff. This all happened before any of the usual nana stuff happened. Once the sadness broke up it seemed like a normal sit began.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70153 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
60m this pm.
Think I reached 11th nana, but only stayed for a few minutes(~ 3).
DN- Thoughts, especially images, began to appear more often.
-My breathing went from smooth to choppy, felt like a series of short gasps made up each breath.
-Waves of unpleasant, nausea inducing, energy roled through my body, felt slightly dizzy. Also had gross vibrations on, and in, my head.
-Thoughts became more appealing, more difficult to not pick up and run with.
These were the things I noticed, I'm pretty tired so I probably missed some more subtle things and only picked up on the obvious physical sensations. I was in DN about 10 minutes.
After reaching what might have been equanimity, and staying a short time, it felt like I tumbled back down through the nanas. It seemed to be about 5-10 minutes and I was back where I started when I first sat down.
It took a while to settle again, and I didn't make it back up to A&P. This is just my interpretation of what happened, could well be totally off the mark.

Question: Any tips for remaining in equanimity longer? Or getting higher into it? I'm fine with just keepin' on but if I can help myself along that'd be great.
  • foolbutnotforlong
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15 years 3 months ago #70154 by foolbutnotforlong
Replied by foolbutnotforlong on topic RE: A beginners Journal
"Question: Any tips for remaining in equanimity longer? Or getting higher into it? I'm fine with just keepin' on but if I can help myself along that'd be great.
"

Once you reached equanimity, I would just surrender to it. Try your best not to condition the nana. Equanimity is exactly what it is, being in equanimity with whatever is happening or arising at the moment. Let it develop on its own (and trust me, it will). You will be "noting" a lot of equanimity towards whatever arises. I find in my experience that, by allowing this equanimity to develop on its own, and by noting it as it develops, it kinda strengthens itself and becomes deeper. Remember that the nanas are stages, and they mature on their own. Keep on giving it the right nutrients and water (aka, continue practicing diligently and allow it to unfold on its own) and it will ripe shortly enough.

P.S. hm, are you sure that you reached equanimity or perhaps the beginning of Re-observation? In my experience, there is a sense of a pseudo-equanimity stage developing right before it all dissolves again and the Re-observation stage takes full force. Just a thought.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70155 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
Thanks for the response, Jorge. Could be Re-observation, I'm not positive either way. I'm going to continue practicing and wherever I am I trust I'll get where I'm going eventually.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #70156 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
I've been experiencing a lot of sadness the last few days. I think I'm in the knowledge of Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth nana. I think it's a good sign though, I usually become defensive and sometimes offensive when sad. Lately I've just been sad though, seems like a layer between "me" and experience has been stripped away, and I'm more directly experiencing life. Also have had difficulty maintaining a broad open awareness of my body for about the same time frame. I'm ok with all this though, my faith in this process seems to be growing.
"Stream Entry in 2011"
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 2 months ago #70157 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
2.5 hrs yesterday, 45m this am.
Yesterday and today sitting has been the *****. No focus, frustration and tired. Dookie Bananas I guess, ok off the cushion, still carrying some useful perspectives from my insights. I've also started to experience drowsiness differently. My eyes drop below the horizon line(usually above when sitting) then my eyelids seem to drop and a heaviness comes into my head and face. The heaviness almost seems like a sticky gooey energy, which seems contradictory, energy-sleepiness. I've just been letting this happen but it's frustrating that when I have time to sit this weird sleepiness overtakes me. Just a phase to get through I guess, not me so no big deal.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 2 months ago #70158 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
deleted. Duplicate entry.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 2 months ago #70159 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
Another 45m this pm. Still very tired, getting sleep though. Feeling like I may be coming down with the flu. Slightly achy and dizzy, hot flashes, general physical yuck today.
  • RevElev
  • Topic Author
15 years 2 months ago #70160 by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: A beginners Journal
1/22/11
60m this am
Averaged 1h 50m seated/day last week
Very frustrated. No idea where I am, feel like I'm wasting my time.
Been very hot the last few days sitting, sweating after 45 minutes. I'm down to shorts only and still getting very hot. Yesterday experienced a loud crack inside my head. Isn't that an A&P symptom?
I've been feeling pressure on my entire body while sitting, like I'm wrapped up like a mummy, for the last 3 days. Today experienced physical and mental anxiety/tension build for about 30 minutes then just drain out of me in 1 or 2 seconds, like water down a drain. Also been experiencing energy building up in me, expecting some kind of pop or bang or something, but it just fizzles out. Seems to be a lot of energy zooming around me the last few days.
Not clearly experiencing nana's, I think I'm in DN then suddenly I seem to experience A&P again. Go through DN then bam A&P again. Or not. I thought I had an idea where I was, I seemed to move through nana's that I could identify and did so regularly now very doubtful.
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