A beginners Journal

Do you think you could, as an exercise, abandon the search to identify the nanas?

You've probably hit all of them at different points, so you have nothing left to "accomplish"- you just need to develop a more "just-slide-on-the-ice" approach. When you do hit SE, it won't be because you battered your way to it through a wall. It's there beside you, just waiting for you to relax. You're Canadian, right? Think curling- you're just sweeping the ice, trying to allow the rock to slide right in.

This might seem counter-intuitive, but have you ever thought of cutting down your sitting time? You put an impressive and titanic amount of time into sitting! But maybe you'd benefit from shorter sits, but at a solid and regularized rhythm- accompanied by a commitment to find enjoyment in your life according to your own definitions of it. That wouldn't be delaying SE. It might help you let go- it'd all be part of that ice-sweeping thing.

Just my usual $0.02!

Hi, Rev!
Without really being an expert on anything (as you know ...
I am in this state of being a little preoccupied with maps and stages.
But in all this recent mapping and stuff, I realized I have given up a little on what I always worked on before, i.e. my experience as is.
I mean, what IS there IS, right.
If you can't fit it into the map, it's not you who are at fault, but rather the map would be.
(and then I believe experienced people like Kenneth can see where our muddled experiences fit in the maps anyway
I thought that every sit now would follow a pattern, and they don't (for me), but looking at the big strokes, they probably do.
I don't mean to sound like I know anything about this, cause I really don't. But I hope I can give something...

I, myself, am going to try to be more with what happens in my sits than with the maps, let's see if I can do it...

Guys,

Pay real close attention in the sit. Make a good journal entry. Then after you have your data, try and see if you can come to a conclusion. Be very scientific. Don't try and analyse before all the data's in.

I've had tension/frustration building in me for a while. Sunday night it kinda "popped". I realized, very suddenly, that all this misery and frustration is just anxiety that I'm experiencing in my body, and has nothing to do with what is happening around me. Once I saw this I just relaxed and felt a huge sense of relief.
So now my focus is to relax(sweeping the ice). Rob, love that image of SE being right beside me. It makes a lot of sense when it's put that way. I do have a habit of putting my head down and pushing as hard as I can, until my goal is achieved or I collapse in exhaustion. It works for school and my job, but I don't think It can be applied to this practice. I'm finding that just being open, aware, and relaxed can be very pleasant. I'm also trying to maintain a "lighter" level of awareness, maybe more diffuse is a better description. Just trying to lighten up in every way really.
My mantra right now is "open, relaxed, and aware." I think if I can do that I'll reduce my suffering Hopefully I won't lose too much momentum, or slide too far down the ladder. But, I think this is how I have to go about this for now.
Rob, meekan, and Mu, thanks for the encouragement. It's much appreciated!!

"My mantra right now is "open, relaxed, and aware." I think if I can do that I'll reduce my suffering Hopefully I won't lose too much momentum, or slide too far down the ladder. But, I think this is how I have to go about this for now."

I think you're rdoing the right thing, and I don't think you'll lose momentum, but gain it. Pleasantness and enjoyment are liberation factors, just as much as effort is. If pleasantness is available to you, then you should grab it. Whatever power advances you toward liberation doesn't care if you prove that you're hardcore.

Your suffering isn't an indicator of failure, it's merely a reminder that you can suffer.

Lately, I've been thinking a lot, in my own practice, how we are conditioned to assume that there is a "sacrifice" expected of us. We feel we have to pay our dues, or show that we're willing to put something on the line for our beliefs, or prove something to who-knows-who. It's really wired into our minds- might be a Judeo-Christian thing, I dunno... but that seems to be a huge block for a lot of meditators. We're always looking for the Secret Ingredient. It can't possibly be something that Little Ol' Me could have. I must have to become something else, first. I must have to pass some test. I must have to be better or more deserving.

But really, we are talking about a birthright of being, a condition that exists only in a given moment, with no reference to future or past or any other condition. When happiness and pleasantness are available to you, grab them!!

Hey, Rev. We seem to be in pretty similar places.

" I thought I had an idea where I was, I seemed to move through nana's that I could identify and did so regularly now very doubtful." -Rev

I've been coming to the same conclusion about my practice. After crossing A&P, I had this energy in my head that would shift and cause changes in pressures and focus. I took those shifts to be cycling through the jhanas, but now I think they are more a symptom of trying too hard, so I'm also trying to lighten my awareness. Hope 'lightening up' is the cure for your dis-ease.

-John

1/26/11
75m today
Much better today.Noticed this am how much I add to my experiences, judgments about good or bad mostly. Noticed the addition to my breath again. Same as a month ago but more subtle. Focusing on being open and aware releases stress from my sternum, I feel like I'm expanding outward from there. Walking home it changed my perception, everything seems more fascinating, and beautiful. Probably looked like a crazy person walking home smiling to myself. Just keeping a light attention on the sternum/chest seems to keep it open somehow. I feel very peaceful, content, and present when I do this. Today I added much less than usual to my experience. Relaxing. Realizing how much I physically contract as a result of my thoughts, a downward spiral, the more I contract the more I think/add, and so on. Today it seems so easy to just be with what comes and not add my thoughts to it. It's impermanent, but I'll take it!
Seated just trying to stay relaxed and with the breath. Trying to keep a balance, not too loose or too tight.
It seems like my meditation hasn't changed much lately, but my day to day life has. I've had some major, for me, realizations about how my perception effects my life. More importantly I've been able to make changes to improve my life.

John,
Welcome to KFD, sorry I haven't said hi before. I'm actually trying to limit my time here to keep relaxed about my practice.
A head full of energy, I can relate to that. Mine was worst before A&P,actually spent a day in bed from the headache. It was usually pretty neutral but did get unpleasant a couple times. I took it as a sign I was doing more then just looking at my eyelids, so I've never minded it all that much.

1/28/11
1h15m/day this week.
Eq this evening, I think.
Great day today. Maintained good awareness of the body, several episodes of pleasant mental sensations as a result. Emotions seem to be happening in slo-mo yesterday and today. I can see them slowly arise as tension in my body, usually across the back of my shoulders, sometimes centre of my chest. They seem to take a while to peak, and just seeing them appear keeps me from becoming embedded in them, or engulfed by them. As the physical sensation is increasing I become aware of the thought that accompanies it. It's usually about how I'm right and someone else is wrong, I have a great need to defend my self it seems. Which is beginning to really seem ridiculous, the idea of "myself" is weakening, and I'm completely at a loss as to what I'm defending against, being wrong I guess. That just doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore. Last night in bed I was running memories through my head to see how my body reacted. Past experiences of anger, frustration, happiness, sadness, just to watch the sensations, it was kinda fun.
I'm not so interested in meditation or where I may be on a map. I see it as simply a tool to use to see my life more clearly and decrease suffering. I was obsessed by attainments and nana's, much less so now. I still want first path like crazy, but I've already exceeded the goals I had when I started meditating, partly because I didn't know what was possible. But, my goals have been surpassed and everything now is gravy, damn good gravy!

Is the temporary disappearance of the sense of "I" significant?
No subject, just objects for a few(3-5) seconds.
Or just a step on the path

"Is the temporary disappearance of the sense of "I" significant?
No subject, just objects for a few(3-5) seconds.
Or just a step on the path"

Is that your experience, RevElev?

Yes, post 102:
"Today experienced something new. Sat with my breath and after about 30 minutes the subject/object split just disappeared. One moment I was looking at the breath and the next moment I was the breath. I seemed to be moving/flowing just as the breath does. Now, it just seems almost like it was a dream, the way flying can feel real in a dream but when you wake up it doesn't seem like a big deal. It was disorienting and only lasted about 5 seconds. But it makes me think maybe I am doing this right."
That's how I described it at the time. I haven't had it again, but it seemed important and I wanted to ask about it.
Thanks

"Is the temporary disappearance of the sense of "I" significant?
No subject, just objects for a few(3-5) seconds.
Or just a step on the path
-RevElev"

Hi RevElev

I also had those moments of no self, nice aren't they ? Some of these moments happened before path and towards second path they became more common. Now looking back, I think that we get many glimpses of the real thing along the way. We just normally get some aspect of the truth and not the whole package.

Non-dual states are nice, but not the whole truth. At some point I thought that it is the answer to the question, but it turned out to be just one of those phases you go through. Not to say that it is one important milestone. Experiencing the world through different perspectives (1st, 2nd and 3rd gear) really boosts up the practise and loosens up some tight screws .

Good things are happening, so keep up the excellent work!

Antero.

Thanks. I've definitely got some tight screws, and they do seem to be loosening. Onwards and upwards!!!

Feeling like I've hit a plateau. That other thread(can't remember which) that mentioned plateaus really struck a chord with me. Sitting focused on the breath is so comfortable and pleasant, I have very little motivation to push at all. And, my initial goals were so limited, due to ignorance about what was possible, I've exceeded them. That and I'm tired due to some life stuff, so bit of a blah feeling lately.
Switched back to physical sensations today and think I went through the nanas, maybe to Eq. but then, again, seemed to hit A&P. About 2 min in Eq. a slide out, maybe 2-3 minutes, then bam A&P again. The energy surge and lights in the visual field could I be moving up and down that quick? Need to quick myself in the A#$ to get going again.

2/3/11
45 m noting silent and out loud, 50/50. Very similar to experience of focusing on sensations, but the sensations are more intense. Or, experienced more intensely.
-breathing, pressure, hearing, remembering, seeing, pressure, itching, breathing, pressure.
This was the experience the first 10~minutes.
-pressure, tension, quivering, twitching, pressure, breathing, unsteady, pressure.
This lasted about 5 minutes. The tension was in the face/jaw. The quivering was my breath felt as gaspy, and the twitching was in my neck causing my head to jerk 4 or 5 times, not much but noticeable.
-pressure, seeing, visualizing, tingling, tension, curiosity, pleasant, smiling, seeing, tingling, pinching, hearing, seeing, smiling, pleasant.
This was 5~minutes and was essentially lights in the visual field and a slight energy surge. Nothing was physically pleasant,neutral to slightly pleasant, but I found myself smiling and feeling content/satisfied.
-pressure, tension, pinching, aversion, doubt, confusion, uncertainty, unpleasant, breathing, aversion, desire, doubt, uncertainty.
This was a Very unpleasant time, 10~minutes, I almost stopped a couple times(desire, to get up). Physically uncomfortable, felt muscles tensing and pinching in my back. Stiffness in my neck, suddenly felt like I was wasting my time(aversion). If this was DN it was one of the clearest and most intense I've experienced.
-breathing, relief, tingling, curiosity, silence, calm, uncertainty, confusion, tingling.
After the previous unpleasantness, everything just seemed to stop. I had a couple episodes of a tingling energy go over my body, but very little else. The curiosity and uncertainty are from not really experiencing much of anything, just calm and silent. Maybe it was just in comparison to what came before, but I found myself looking for sensations and not finding much.

Is it possible to experience slight energy surges while in Equanimity?

"The curiosity and uncertainty are from not really experiencing much of anything, just calm and silent. Maybe it was just in comparison to what came before, but I found myself looking for sensations and not finding much."

I had this experience, too, in Equanimity on the way to SE. When I got past the DN, everything just... stopped. No sense that I had accomplished anything, plus a slight feeling of nostalgia for all the drama I was going through before!!

Somebody with more mileage on them could probably speak more surely, but I think you probably can have energy surges in EQ. I feel like I'm well past my DN pre-second path, but I still get little shakes and surges even a long time into a quiet sit. I suspect these categories just aren't that clean-cut, at least, not til you see them in retrospect.

"Is it possible to experience slight energy surges while in Equanimity?
-RevElev"

Hi RevElev,

Your description matches my experience on Equanimity quite well, although I have experienced energy phenomena only at the high equanimity phase. Keep that momentum going! Especially if you are touching the knowledge of equanimity.

Antero.

Cool, Rev!
Keep going now!

Thanks for the encouragement everyone!
45m this am.
Pretty average sit, same as above but relaxed into the lack of sensation at the end. Found after the sit that I'm pretty spaced out. I sat down to have a coffee and read the paper. Couldn't stay focused for more than a couple sentences, and I wasn't interested anyway. Tried watching TV and just found it abrasive and jarring. I wound up just sitting on the couch watching...nothing really. My cat jumped on my lap and she seemed fascinating. Everything just feels...nice, cool, dunno? Weird state of mind right now, pleasant but glad I don't have to accomplish anything today. Feel like a simpleton amused by the smallest things, but easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation.

Staying with the body easily the last couple days, and noticing a lot of tension. Felt it clearly at work yesterday, I'm a definite introvert and have suffered from some social anxiety issues so just being around people causes tension to arise. I realized that in the past I would become judgmental of others to justify my discomfort. But yesterday if I just kept my attention on the anxiety/tension it would relax and I could actually feel happy and didn't need to demonize co-workers. This practice is lessening my suffering, almost daily. Sorry if this is sounding like a diary instead of a practice journal.
Speaking of practice 45m this am. Nothing really new. Very similar to post 140, but I'm relaxing with whatever appears(trying to) Still feeling some anxiousness about attaining stream entry though.
Added:
I even feel tension arising because I'm sitting here trying to notice tension in my body. It seems to be an inability to relax with what is.

This sounds great, Rev. The fact that you know you can't relax with what is shows that you ARE with what is, and that's all you could ask for. My sense of post-SE is that tension and anxiety don't go away, they just become tension and anxiety that don't cause suffering. The mistake all along was to think there was something to get rid of. So don't fret if you still fret!

I'd guess that, according to the "Ebay model of awakening", you've won the bidding for Stream Entry. It's just that the sender uses ground mail and can't give you a tracking number, so it could arrive tomorrow or six months from now. You can't stop yourself from wanting it, but you can't force it to come any faster (even if you leave bad seller feedback!)

Rob,
As always thanks for the kind words. I'm starting to believe that I've won the bidding as well, just need to check the mailbox everyday.
It's so contrary to how I've lived my life up until now to realize that if I sit with my anxiety I can be happy. I've spent my whole life fighting these "negative" emotions. I can be tense, anxious, worried, frustrated, and impatient... and happy. Blows my mind, and I'd never believe it if I wasn't living it right now.

""Ebay model of awakening", you've won the bidding for Stream Entry. It's just that the sender uses ground mail and can't give you a tracking number, so it could arrive tomorrow or six months from now. You can't stop yourself from wanting it, but you can't force it to come any faster (even if you leave bad seller feedback!)"

Wonderful!!