Eddy's practice journal

That's a great thing to have discovered, Eddy. Better to see what's really there than some vague bad feeling you can't figure out! Keep in mind this can be heavy stuff, and not something where you can go "oh heck, I'll just let go of that!" Fact is most people I know have gone through (or are still going through) some kind of conflict or discomfort with their relationship with their family - especially when you are just leaving home and finding yourself and becoming your own person, it's really normal to start realizing how much crap you put up with as a kid, or how you no longer have the same point of view about things that you were raised with, or that you want to shake off who you were "supposed to be" and be who you really are. Be patient with yourself and the process of figuring things out. Remember to be kind and patient with yourself. Many, many people (myself included) work through these kinds of realizations and feelings, and we come out okay at the other end!

Eddy, if you are still talking to someone at school, a counselor or someone like that, this is a great topic to bring to their attention. It is a truly important development, I think, and is very likely due at least in part to your practice. But it's also psychological, as you say very astutely, so you really do need to capitalize on it and keep these thoughts and feel ins out in the open where you can work with them and relieve yourself of the underlying tension and pain.

I know what third process is like. It can be very painful while it's happening but the second you relive yourself of it the anger, fear, hatred and all the related tension just goes "poof!" And it can then dissipate and you are free of it. Not being able to fully process emotions is a major stumbling block that most people have so you are certainly not weird or different because of that. So... hang in there and keep posting here to let us know how it's going.

Thank you everyone Gira and Marti. I will be seeing the counselor again tomorrow and I will definitely bring this up. Its very interesting how the meditation can bring these things up to surface so clearly. Its almost as if I can visually see the conflicts in my mind and how the self puts up these barriers to keep itself safe from certain feelings and situations.

Its been a terrible week so far in respects to how I am feeling and practice. Being mindful has proved very difficult and painful and I've been getting up from all my sits early or falling asleep/ Even when I do sit I get this feeling that Im not progressing or Im going nowhere. I wonder if I am doing something wrong.

Hey Eddy, there are always some tough spots in meditation, and it's not a sign of lack of progress. For some people "just keep sitting" is the best advice. But given your specific situation, that you have some really heavy personal conflicts that are coming up, I think you are getting a tougher ride than most people and should really lean on the support of the counselor and make sure you make time for exercise, friends, sunshine, art and other uplifting things to help balance the difficulties. Both things will get better! I've dealt with both myself, and they really can sort themselves out with determination and asking for all the help you need. I wish you well. Hang in there!

Thats very true. But i think I have been distracting myself with things too much lately.

"I also forgot to mention that I've been on antidepressant SSRI's for a week now so it should be hitting me within the next month. I've heard that could affect practice and progress so I'll definitely post up any changes I notice."-dudeiteddy, September 12th, 2011

Hi Eddy,

It's been about a month and I'm wondering how it's going with the SSRIs. I took them from late 1998 through early 2005 and found them very helpful. I was a rabid meditator before, during, and after that period, and didn't find that the meds got in the way. If anything, they seemed to help; when I was very depressed, my meditation would often get bogged down in mind loops of despairing thoughts. So, getting relief from the depression made it easier to meditate. And the meds did a good job of easing the depression. I know that folks sometimes worry that they will feel too fuzzy to meditate if they take meds, but I didn't find this to be the case. And, after all, the vipassana instructions are to pay attention to whatever is there, so whatever arises in any situation is the perfect object for meditation.

How are you finding the SSRIs so far?

Kenneth, I have been finding them to not affect practice as much as I thought. I'm not quite feeling better with the tension and pain but the depressing side of it has softened.

"Kenneth, I have been finding them to not affect practice as much as I thought. I'm not quite feeling better with the tension and pain but the depressing side of it has softened."

So glad to hear it, Eddy. Depression can be crippling and it's such a blessing to get relief from it. My experience was that my depression went away entirely when I attained to what I call the tipping point, the 5th stage on my hybrid map (aka MCTB 4th Path). The downward spiral just couldn't take hold anymore and over a period of a few months I learned to live in the new, non-depressed world and stopped taking the meds. Haven't taken them since 2005 and haven't been depressed.

Haven't been sitting much more than 30 min daily due to aversion. Im getting crazy pain and manic fits coming from chest. It feels very stuffy and sometimes icky. My mind reacts by getting hyperactive and manic-like. It resorts to high energy things in order to dissociate. I am going to try an experiment soon. Instead of focusing on the sensations themselves I will try to only focus on their reactions to them since I have a hard time disembedding from reactions.

Are you able to notice any pleasant sensations in your experience? I've been tuning into the pleasantness associated with sensations of air (by starting with the breath and then noticing the same pleasant coolness in the body). The longer I tune into it, the stronger it gets.

I was struggling with negative sensations and longing for something wholesome - I believe this has been very helpful in that regard.

"You can choose any of the sensations that are coming into your awareness. It's as if there were a buzz in all the different parts of the body. There's a potential for pain here, a potential for pleasure over there. All these different sensations are presenting themselves to you for you to do something about them, and you have the choice as to which ones you'll notice.

Doctors have done studies showing that pain isn't just a physical phenomenon. It isn't totally a given. There are so many different messages coming into your brain right now that you can't possibly process them all, so you choose to focus on just some of them. And the mind has a tendency to focus on pain because it's usually a warning signal. But we don't have to focus there. In other words, there can be a slight discomfort in a part of the body, and you can focus on it and make it more and more intense, more and more of an issue. That's one thing you can do right now, but '” even if you may not realize it '” you have the choice of whether or not to do that. You can choose not to make it more intense. You can choose even to ignore it entirely. Many times we have habitual ways of relating to sensations, and they're so habitual and so consistent that we think there's no choice at all. "This is the way things have to be," we think, but they don't."

The instructions I've been using are here:
www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/than...itations.html#tuning

Thanks, I just finished reading the instructions you posted mumuwu. The that confuses me is that this talks about tuning in on a sensations and for the past couple of weeks people have been advising me to be panoramic and not just tune in on one thing

Well, if you look them over again you may notice that the instructions do talk about not narrowing awareness and allowing the pleasant sensations to be detected over a larger and larger area.

Pleasant sensations which you are normally not aware of, are still there and are not incompatible with a panoramic awareness (once you get a feel for it you try to feel it in as panoramic a way as possible).

That being said - feel free to disregard. Thought it might be helpful, but if it isn't please don't get distracted by it.

E.g.

"When we're getting the mind concentrated, we're thinking in a different way. In the beginning stages we're still thinking, but we're thinking solely about the present moment, observing solely the present moment, being alert and mindful to what's going on here, so we don't have to create worlds of past and future. This imposes less stress on the body. In order to maintain that present focus and not go slipping off to your old habits, you've got to keep your awareness as broad as possible. That's what keeps you rooted in the present moment, all the way down to your fingers and toes. When your awareness stays broad, it prevents the kind of shrinking up that allows the mind to slip out after thoughts of past and future. You stay fully inhabiting the present. The need to think gets more and more attenuated."

Also remember about noticing how all this fabrication is tiresome. From the same essay:

"So when you look at all your experiences in the same way, seeing all the effort that goes into their production and asking if it's worth it: That's when you really get disillusioned, disenchanted, when you can really let go. You let go not only of perceptions or feelings as they come and go, but also of the act of creating these things. You see that this act of creating is all-pervasive, covers all your experiences. You're always creating, either skillfully or unskillfully. There is constant production every time there's an intention, every time there's a choice in the mind. This is what begins to seem oppressive; this is what finally impels you to let go.

You let go of the producing, you let go of the creation, and the letting-go really opens things up. The mind opens to another dimension entirely: one that's not made up, that's not created, where there's no arising or passing away. "

(the actual world of the senses)

If it's useful, Eddy, keep in mind that many things we habitually think about ourselves are just things we were taught (by parents, peers, experiences). "I'm such a failure" or things like that that pop up when we think we've made a mistake are just our minds repeating things we were told, that aren't true, but just pop up as little automatic responses. We learn them so well we just inflict them on ourselves out of habit. There's no use in trying to repress them or get rid of them. It is more helpful to just acknowledge them - there's another thought, there's some grief, here it comes, there it goes, look at it jumping around doing its thing. Everyone has thoughts pop up and run around during meditation - about shopping, about love, about hate, about grief or homework or oops I forgot to walk the dog or how angry they are at their brother.... it's perfectly okay. Not a sign of failure or bad meditation. The broader concentration people are suggesting can help prevent locking into those thoughts and getting carried off by them.

Thank you gira. My mind is always spinning off into tangents many having to do with the past and what people have told me. I wonder if they will ever go away?

Rather than thinking of those thought loops going away think of them as not making any impact, not carrying any weight, holding no power over you.

"
Rather than thinking of those thought loops going away think of them as not making any impact, not carrying any weight, holding no power over you.

"

I had a period where feelings of failure and criticism I'd heard from my dad used to spin in my head a lot. I literally started saying each time "that's not my voice, that's my dad talking. it's not true". It sounds corny, but it helped. When I worked with a therapist we talked a lot about that kind of stuff, and even acted out speaking up to my (imaginary) dad and saying things I wished I could say but felt afraid to. What Chris says is true - you don't have to banish or supress these thoughts - they are just thoughts, just notice them coming and going, wandering in and out by themselves, doing their thing, and in time they will lose their power.

"Thank you gira. My mind is always spinning off into tangents many having to do with the past and what people have told me. I wonder if they will ever go away?"

The great thing about all of the human development work is that there is incremental progress. The mind becomes gentler and easier as you proceed. Sure there are some bigger jumps in progress here and there, but the gentle and patient work makes everything easier and easier. No shortcuts, but benefits every step of the way.

Sometimes the feeling of progress can be elusive. There is that classic example of someone walking on a overcast and foggy day. They keep walking and at some point they realize they are soaking wet. It's so gradual. It's hard to feel the change, but some days we all look back and are amazed at how different things are and yet moments before, we never quite appreciated the benefits of the work.

The thing about those kinds of thought loops is that they are kind of like cockroaches, as soon as you turn on the light, they skitter away. The "light" here being mindfulness. It's like they can't do anything to you as long as you know it's happening in the moment. Then they lose the power to make you suffer.

This might sound like a totally ridiculous exercise, but it might be worth a try. For a set period of time, like 10 minutes or so, keep count of how many of those negative thoughts arise. Start over and do it for another 10 minutes and keep at it for a few sets. At first you'll probably be a bit upset at how many are happening. However, if you keep it up, you'll notice that the longer you do it, the fewer there are. It is like you are burning them off by paying attention to them.

This worked for me. It might be worth a go. Keep it up Eddy, your efforts will pay off!

P.S. Don't hesitate to skype me if you want to chat

I getting a lot more vibrations and visual phenomena lately. Im noticing through the day a lot more. I feel more and more down however and pointless about everything. As If I am going to die.

Eddy, you will always have ups and downs. It is expected. Keep the long term trend in mind, and remember what you've gained so far!

Please talk to your counselor about this right away. You need to be alive to get enlightened - let's keep you that way.

I am doing a bit better today... When I meant I felt I was going to die it wasn't literal. I'm sorry if that came off as something more grave and worrying. It was more like I felt like my sense of being was going to die. Like everything I felt and was going to perish. It was this fear. And the confusion of it really depressed me. Its like floating in a big empty space without any direction. I really saw that nothing could give me the satisfaction I was looking for.

"... Like everything I felt and was going to perish. It was this fear. And the confusion of it really depressed me. Its like floating in a big empty space without any direction. ...

"

Glad you were not being literal, Eddy!

With the impressions in the part I quoted, keep in mind these are the mind's ways of trying to grasp at metaphors. You aren't floating in empty space, you won't die, you won't lose everything you know, and so on - throughout meditation the mind comes up with pictures and stories to try to explain glimpses of things it can't comprehend, or to explain its fears.

A super helpful thing my teacher suggested once is to notice that if you feel confused it is because you are resisting. There are lots of meditation experiences that are mysterious or new or so subtle you can't even really see them yet, and the mind tends to go "ah, that's weird and confusing and scary!" on impulse. Rather than resist, if you can try to acknowledge and include, if you can try to embrace that mystery, that can help. Like, "what a fascinating adventure to never know what comes next!" or "Mind is scared, that's okay, mind is confused, that's okay, body is trembling, that's okay." It's hard, but it can be helpful.