recording and learning

For a couple of months I would almost always go into a period of dream imagery before settling into a concentration state. It doesn't happen so much any more. Another thing I would do while focusing on the anapana spot was note the five hindrances as they arose. Once I became aware of the dreaminess I'd just note "torpor." I noted "restlessness" and "aversion" a lot. I didn't note anything else, just the hindrances. It helped that I simply expected them to come up, saw it as part of the process. If I got fascinated with questions of what was happening--like whether the nimitta was arising, or something like that--I'd just move my eyes down to the tip of the nose, rather than allow myself to try to discern anything in the visual field. Of course, I wasn't doing kasina practice, but I imagine the same principle applies.

I'm not sure longer practice is a good idea; if it goes on too long and frustration takes over, you can develop a sense of strain with the practice. More frequent practice of 30 or 40 minutes might be a better way to go as you're trying to build concentration. I am speaking only on the basis of my own personal experience here, not as any kind of expert, so feel free to try these things or ignore them as you find them useful or not.

Thanks. I have seen nimitta a few times but not in a long while, and never for more than a second or two. I never knew what it was until coming here and readinf up on stuff - for me its like rays of light emanating from the object or somehwere else that penetrate everything.. Pretty interesting actually. I used to think it was something special

hmm. Had been mahasi noting during the day at work, picking at sensations in the abdomen, thoughts, tingles. Got into some A&P stuff sitting on the can(LOL!), had been noting in the stomach feeling then switched to a fast pulse in the chin and locked onto it then sense of self opened up, went more non-dual and energy/tingles rushing up in the 'space' inside...never got to any DN or so it seemed later noting some old conditioning and emotions felt like emotions and not tingles or vibrations. Had a bike ride and watching mind states as I went, had lots of teflon-mind moments here and there.

55 minutes after lunch, home early today. Had gone on a bike ride so no idea how endorphines in the system effect sitting.
started out pleasant, tingles, lower leg vibrating quickly, lots of fast vibrations in different areas noticed, some tensions, thoughts, old conditioning seen and noted again - got into some twisting in the face tensions about 40 minutes in, then typical self starting to drop/rushing tingles up in the head/body, then more calm, had a few moments where I was hearing all sorts of stuff at once, also easier to disembed from thinking this sit..

60 more minutes mahasi, somewhat fast and silent,

had a 30 minute break for food and whatnot after the last sit, body vibrating with fearful pulses, some random fearful thoughts and images.
Sat down and started playing in the dukkha nanas, very clear today, started in fear as above, then shifted through a state where there was alot of tingling/vibrating tension that was just painful, sort of full body, then shifted to a different feeling, tingles and tensions/vibrations were sickening somehow, half formed image of sick or grossed out in the mind, then clearly to a state where the body sensations presented like a 'sadness cramp' flavor, mind image desire to cry or something - noting thoughts of 'omg this is cool' - it took about ten minutes I think to shift up to there, then it felt like I kept shifting back down to misery, then back up through disgust and desire for deliverance, I think this seemed to happen a few times, up and down, I tried to pick off and see the mindstates arising which seemed to release lots of raw tingling sensations in the head as I did so (most sensations from noting mindstate in the 9th) - seemed like I *may* have gotten to jumbly re-ob, shaking observer, dont remember distinct flavors of sensations. There was a perfect moment where all the sudden surrender occured and for a second or two I was 100% OK with the entire whole of the body at once, with whatever was there, almost felt like I was absorbed or something, this happened again later, but much weaker, and the rest of the sit it seemed I just sort of encountered random dukkha nanas, concentration seemed to peter out near the end and I recall the last minute feeling back in fearful pulsing, some fearful images flashing by so fast I couldnt see what they were at all.

3x30 minutes @ zendo. 2 sits were concentration, picked a spot in the visual field and made it an object. During the second sit I got to what I consider 'light access' where I was a bit more solidly on the object, not totally locked on, and I could tell hindrances were supressed, mild pleasant tingling going on - seeing how there is a way to use thinking itself to help draw the mind into the object. If all my thoughts are about the object then that seems to help draw it in more.

last sit switched to noting as I was getting some unusually strong anxiety, tension, aversion and repeating thoughts of inadequacy, coupled with some odd visual memory fragments from childhood. Noting some triples, aversion, getting completely embedded in it - after while being able to see it as not me but only briefly. Had some tingles/release of energy after noting some of the inadequacy thoughts and seeing image fragments from childhood.

Ahh the things I will know not to do when I am a parent (if that happens - I am a bit old but we will see)

Another hour of mahasi, went outloud initially then silent
- Started out with tension, anxiety, painful contractions, changed to more mellow tensions, tingling all over more neutral, then seeing through self images, rushing intense waves of tingling throughout the head and upper body again very non-dual feeling, sense of meditation taking over, twice I think then a long calm period, just rising and falling, some small tensions and sense of calm, drumbeat ~5hz full body fearful pulsing started up after ~15 min or so of calm, started very subtly, slowly increased, was almost purely in the body, not much in the way of mind stuff associated with it, after 5 minutes of this shifted to a higher frequency, felt like pain, stayed in this mode for the rest of the sit, poked up into sick feeling vibrations once for a half minute I think then back into painful tingles and vibrations everywhere. Mindstates not very clear, kept noting desire to move on, desire to go higher, sat and noted/noticed the vibrations, strong, painful, full body at times, very little aversion seen, mostly striving, desire to go deeper noted.

20 Kasina and 30 min Kasina, Using the thinking mind to draw awareness into the object instead of this idea of forcing attention onto it - Both sessions were very pleasant, immediately. Concentration slowly got more stable over the course, seemed most solid yet.

55 min noting, seemed to have some tension in the beginning, massive rushing of energy anf tingles about 10 or 15 minutes into it after noting some thoughts identified with and losing sense of the self in the rushing tingling, mildly shaking space - then the top of the head seemed to break into wispy sensations , body calm and not very solid feeling, but not much change after that, noting thoughts of inadequacy, unnacceptabilty, desire for attainment, tensions, noting mostly Mahasi but switched to choiceless after a bit, felt mostly calm and neutral after a bit.

20 min walking and then back for 45 minutes more noting : on the cushion started mahasi out loud, went silent and choiceless after a while. No real clear shifts seen, awareness was very wide open, accepting, many things heard and felt all at once, thoughts OK - sense of being OK and peaceful more solid than I can ever remember being, had a few moments where all of experience seemed to be encapsulated within the width of awareness in that moment, all OK within that space. Started to meander a bit in there but mostly clear, starting to notice how this moment is not acceptable, seeing that movement of the mind to push away or hold onto - how it creates division and suffering. Noticing it.

Yesterday was a write-off...

PC blew up so my reports may be spotty - 55 min noting this AM, started off straight mahasi out loud, shifted to choicesless about 1/3 of the way in, also did some 'thating' - started off with different flavors of unpleasant sensations in the body, painful tingles, nauseating tingles, some shaking, eventually got some tension in the chest that rose up to the mouth and twisted it up a bit, then some mild rushing sensations in the head, tingles, sense of stuff happening on its own, then ~10 minutes of calmness. Some indistinct stuff in there, felt more whole body, unpleasant, vibratory somewhat but wasnt very clear, then mind tired, daydreamy for a bit, noting everything I could, more clarity, tingling playing around in top of head, Bell.

55 minutes at lunch. Intended to start with kasina but had some stuff coming up that seemed more important, so did choiceless noting of the 'stuff' - Seemed to me like the sit went from inadequacy thoughts, failure thoughts, striving thoughts, with attending contractions and sensations in the stomach and neck and head, then a quiet spot until I got the typical tension rising up the front of the neck, into the mouth twisting it into a frown, then rushing tingles in the head, sense of losing self, then back to more stuff like the beginning, another round of tension, more rushing tingles, etc - felt like bouncing up and down the same stuff over and over again.

40 minutes Kasina - didnt get very far. What happens is that my mind wont stay for more than a fraction of a second on the object before it 'twitches' somehow, not sure why. Cannot see into that gap for some reason.

OK I think I figured it out - if I am going to do any samatha in a day it needs to be the first thing, not after noting all day spiraling into who knows where in the maps. Duh.

Was in intense fear, pulsing in the body and wild images triggering the body lat night for a few hours, finding that when I get stuck there that triples and just residing in the body and not jumping on a thought train keeps it from causing problems.

Experimented with ultrafast 'it' and 'that' noting today at lunch, 55min. Had been doing some lightly all morning - Started with normal stuff, low key tingles and vibrations and thoughts, mostly 'I am practicing' images and such, didnt really get into any strong tension or emotion-thought patterns, about 15 minutes in had the typical seeing through some aspect of self and rushing tingles, meditation seeming to take over for a minute, speeding up and a bit of calm, a quick fearful patch and then calm again for a while, some more fear, odd tensions of flavor of pain, fear, and once or twice some nausea that came and went, some shaking of the centerpoint after a while, energy rising up into the head then awareness settling into the plane of the eyes and more thoughts seen apart from self, some sense of opening into more space, seeing unclear glimpses of how experiencing occurs and is suddenly replaced with a 'me' thought, some sort of gap in-between. Not very clear.

Interesting - for some reason it is easy to do the fast stuff during the day without any particular effort or striving to do so. Lots of interesting things, sounds, things that move, the underlying flickering of the visual field, body vibrations, lots to try to note/notice the individual moments of. I was in a really chilled out, lazy, somewhat daydreamish state after the sit yesterday, but it cleared up after a while and I just got happier and happier for some reason, just kept coming back to 'it,it,it,it' at a rate which feels natural, maybe 4 or 5 per second, not producing any tension in the body doing it. About 6 hours later I was walking with my fiance at the beach, feeling open and happy, and then felt it fade, didnt try to hold on to it, and then after a short while clearly went through fear mode for a few minutes, then through tensions in the neck and head, which left and then noticed thought loops of inadequacy/worthlessness for a few minutes before getting back to a mode where I was just on the edge of becoming more imbedded in thoughts and was mildly happy but not nearly as aware as I had been an hour earlier. I haven't yet tried to push the rate of noting higher than that, when I do it doesnt seem to work anymore, although Im not generating any body tension by trying.

These are wonderful reports, Bill. It's helping me put my own experience into perspective.

I'm not sure I know what "it" or "that" noting is. I'm a little afraid to try it. But I have lots of times when out-loud noting doesn't work for me; seems to cover up or distract from what's happening.

its an experiment really, I am finding it useful to just use the word 'that' or 'it' instead of descriptive words. I dont normally have verbal thoughts - Im playing with this to see how useful it is. A bird chirps, I notice the sensation and internally 'that' it, a self image arises, same thing, tension, same thing.

55 minutes 'it' and 'that', silent, fast. Seemed to go through cycles of calmness, tension, seeing through some aspect of thinking, release of energy, less self, tingling, rushing, calm, then some more tension in the face, resistance to seeing some aspect of self as a 'that', making it an object and more release, sometimes fear, sometimes pain.. Some interesting moments where I could start to perceive the birds outside, all these different sounds arising, distinct, very complex, noting each little sound as best I could. Seems like the higher the resolution I can perceive reality the more interesting it is.

55 minutes noting at lunch, ~10 min kasina at the beginning, verbal, mind and body style, some doubles. No real clear state shifts except calmness and clarity slowly increasing, random tensions and vibrations, striving thoughts, inadequacy thoughts, worrying about doing it right/etc. Seeing how if these thoughts are see through that the ability to be present to the changing experience increases.

edit - have been noting quite a bit all during the day also the last few days - building up the circuitry to create a habit. Seems to get a bit easier over time...

nasty dukkaville round this afternoon - started about a half hour before leaving work.

45 minutes noting it - images of fear, images of pain, images of suffering, intense desire to get away, intense desire to be free from unpleasantness, noting doubles and triples, some odd shaking and bubbling sensations in the head, lots of pressure out the third eye.. After a bit it became easier to just do rising and falling while picking off mental states and sensations.

Where's my T-Shirt?

had some extra time so I did 30 minutes Kasina.. Went very well this time - I am learning how to use thoughts to get awareness to stay on the object, its color, instead of trying to force the mind onto the object. Very pleasant, got to some light access where I was directly perceiving the color of the object for a few seconds at a time, instead of inserting subtle thoughts in front of the perception. Sense of energetic but mild pleasure, stillness, and feeling energy in my head vibrating very quickly on the left and right, feeling like it tries to balance out or something. Good concentration seems to precede good insight! Gotta sharpen that sword...

Couple of notes: Brain still feels more clear, useful after yesterday's kasina work,
Also - seems like really doing doubles and triples is the best way right now for me to approach DN stuff - seems to be the best way to turn a nightmare into an opportunity!

Its interesting to notice just how much identity is contained in this idea that life should be free of suffering.

5-10 minutes of kasina, 45 noting...
Kasina went well, quickly felt pleasant, relaxed, more focused - not super strong but better than starting dry.

Started out loud, slowly, doubles and triples. About once per second, some a bit faster, some slower, seemed like just typical stuff, did see the mind split off a bit at one point, some really light tension and then tinging, bubbling, lots of pressure in the head, pulsing, intense, pleasant worming wiggling sensations in the front of the skull, then a rush of tingling as some aspect of self seen through, noting had to go silent, then things got way too fast and I just watched - head and body feeling softer, head breaking into wispy sensations, like bits of moving wind, calmer then, some random unpleasant stuff that may have been in the right order to be some DNs, then some odd jumbly stuff, then it felt like just 'stuff' happening, then the entire body started to vibrate in a very very fine and quick way, subtle but there, skin burning on areas in the front and top of the head. The burning continued the rest of the sit, it was fairly mild but noticed. Sometimes thoughts were less sticky sometimes more, sometimes more clarity and space, sometimes less, sort of bobbled around there until the bell. Felt pretty easy to sit energy wise although it did seem during most of the sit after I went silent and just noticed stuff that there was an excess of things going on, I think I was noticing 10 or more things happening constantly per second the whole time. Not normal for me, maybe the concentration does this... Had some moments of seeing that there is no sensation that can be considered an observer, which seemed to be unsettling but OK at the same time...

rough - unpleasant vibrations all over the place... Amazingly doubles working like a charm, just sitting here at work, vibration/unpleasant , tension/unpleasant, tingling/unpleasant, heat/unpleasant, - and I notice myself smiling because I am able to stay with it without getting stuck in aversion looping. Its actually starting to get interesting, these sensations. I may fall off the horse again but its a good pointer to have these exeriences - I know it can be done, it can be worked with, and its not all that bad.

30 Kasina 30 Noting - tired, drifting halfway into the noting, seemed to be just plain, thoughts, tensions, tingles, tiredness, drifting..

starting to feel like the kasina work has been overdone, will probably switch to the breath for a bit..

2x30 noting and 55 noting, noting since got up and in between...Trying some visual field noting as well...

seemed like the first 30 I was already primed by noting all morning and went from tensions, rushing and loss of self, tingling, energy in 'space', then calm, some anxiety, painful tingles, had a brief moment of nasusea then some stuff I cant remember and typical shaking of the observer stuff then just here, hearing, tingling, some thoughts...
Second 30 seemed to be just 'stuff' no real shifts. Drove home.

another 55, after about 30 minutes had another rush of energy, loss of sense of self for a second or three, last twenty minutes seemed to be calm, open, just sensations going on, but what I am finding is that I keep getting sucked into mindstates still, I could keep myself in an open awareness by just checking in every 5-10 seconds, looking at the mind as a whole and noting 'mindstate', like taking a camera snapshot.. I kept doing this - Seems like the mental layer needs some work. Its still incredibly easy to get stuck in thoughts of trying to achieve, inadequacy thoughts, canting, etc. I'm thinking of doing something like breath/mindstate noting, using breathing (starting in nostrils and expanding width as I go on) for an anchor and picking off mental stuff as it appears. Feels to me like every time I get up to what might be 11th in the maps its not very clear due to mental noise and things that still drag me around...
-There is this interesting thing that occurs in my practice though, when I see mental stuff in real time that I am embedded in there is always a release of energy of a sorts as it is seen as 'not me' and slides off. I haven't noticed other people talking about this - its like there is some sort of 'binding energy' to mental stuff that is taken as 'me' that gets released.

"There is this interesting thing that occurs in my practice though, when I see mental stuff in real time that I am embedded in there is always a release of energy of a sorts as it is seen as 'not me' and slides off. I haven't noticed other people talking about this - its like there is some sort of 'binding energy' to mental stuff that is taken as 'me' that gets released."

I've had the experience where, out of nowhere, something related to emptiness has occurred to me in a really clear way, and then cessation occurs almost immediately. So, what you're describing strikes a chord with me in a certain way. Like making certain kinds of recognitions is bringing up an A&P kind of moment for you (if I understand what you mean). Like a certain way of thinking about things can have instant, short-lived effects on what nana you're in.

When I was lost in 3rd path, recognizing some aspect of my experience that needed more clarity or that was still deluded would often instantly produce A&P kinds of sensation (maybe this was actually the beginning of a new A&P in those cases). Different from your case? Similar? Dunno.

I never got much practical value out of noticing these sorts of connections.