Andy's practice journal
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76074
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Starting Over
"After I re-read mumuwu's pointing-out instructions at
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/47...n+Pointing+Exercises
I 'got' the Witness, and by that I mean that it hit me like a ton of bricks. I'd been looking too hard for it. It turns out that I actually experience the Witness as self-consciousness in the psychological sense, but without all that awkward emotional baggage. It's the sensations of my body and the world and everything in it through the filter of subjectivity. Me, I, mine, myself as the subject, and all other sensations that arise as object."
- Yes this sounds about right. The witness is totally self absorbed, completely aloof to all but itself
"And then, after re-reading Mumuwu's instructions, for a moment the self as separate entity was just gone, and there was just the mix of sensations implying self, but not being self."
- Cool - perhaps a glimpse of third gear?
- Yes this sounds about right. The witness is totally self absorbed, completely aloof to all but itself
"And then, after re-reading Mumuwu's instructions, for a moment the self as separate entity was just gone, and there was just the mix of sensations implying self, but not being self."
- Cool - perhaps a glimpse of third gear?
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76075
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Starting Over
11/17
I haven't written much in the last five days. I've been deeply embedded in the middle of a very big and strong emotional reaction, and it's finally starting to calm down for me . It's been a long time since I've been this upset over something. Mainly, the issue involved a big disconnect in how I thought I presented myself in several specific situations compared to how others actually perceived me. The perception was pretty negative and there were consequences. It was a serious blow to my ego, and all kinds of emotional came up, and kept coming, and coming and coming: fear, anxiety, pain, rage, and shame in bucketfuls.
However, I could clearly see the other points of view, and truth be told, I needed to see those.
Wow. It's still amazing how hard this hit me. What an eye-opening insight into the lack of control that I actually have over my mind. What a great way to break myself of the idea that I have some strong meditation skills. Oh yeah, I've also had 7+ years of psychoanalysis. In the darkest depths of the reactions and projectionss, only a little of all of that helped. But, it was truly better that not having had it at all, and I was able to take care of myself both physically and emotionally.
It hasn't been until recently that I've been able to sit and not get stuck in thought. Early on, simple breath watching was only good for about 2 or 3 breaths before long chains of thinking set in, and noting was pretty similar. Eventually, this got better, and is mostly back to normal.
I haven't written much in the last five days. I've been deeply embedded in the middle of a very big and strong emotional reaction, and it's finally starting to calm down for me . It's been a long time since I've been this upset over something. Mainly, the issue involved a big disconnect in how I thought I presented myself in several specific situations compared to how others actually perceived me. The perception was pretty negative and there were consequences. It was a serious blow to my ego, and all kinds of emotional came up, and kept coming, and coming and coming: fear, anxiety, pain, rage, and shame in bucketfuls.
However, I could clearly see the other points of view, and truth be told, I needed to see those.
Wow. It's still amazing how hard this hit me. What an eye-opening insight into the lack of control that I actually have over my mind. What a great way to break myself of the idea that I have some strong meditation skills. Oh yeah, I've also had 7+ years of psychoanalysis. In the darkest depths of the reactions and projectionss, only a little of all of that helped. But, it was truly better that not having had it at all, and I was able to take care of myself both physically and emotionally.
It hasn't been until recently that I've been able to sit and not get stuck in thought. Early on, simple breath watching was only good for about 2 or 3 breaths before long chains of thinking set in, and noting was pretty similar. Eventually, this got better, and is mostly back to normal.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76076
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Starting Over
11/17 (continued...)
The whole thing actually has been interesting from a dharma point of view. There were some times when I could actually step back a little and get some perspective on myself. In those times, I could clearly see all the extremely physical and unpleasant vibrations, restlessness, and inability to concentrate, so I wondered if I was hitting Dark Night. It seems quite early for DN, though, since I've been guessing that I'm at the tail end of review. Also, this physical reaction is also similar to the way I used to experience big emotional pain in the past. Time will tell.
The whole thing actually has been interesting from a dharma point of view. There were some times when I could actually step back a little and get some perspective on myself. In those times, I could clearly see all the extremely physical and unpleasant vibrations, restlessness, and inability to concentrate, so I wondered if I was hitting Dark Night. It seems quite early for DN, though, since I've been guessing that I'm at the tail end of review. Also, this physical reaction is also similar to the way I used to experience big emotional pain in the past. Time will tell.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76077
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Starting Over
11/16
Did not have much time to sit before work, so I did my 10 minute drill: set a chime for every two minutes, then did 2 minutes each on breath, body, vedana, feelings, and thoughts.
I realized at some point that I could note quadruplets now, something that I gave up on prior to first path. Noted this way solidly most of the way to work.
Did some kasina practice at lunch, then got sleepy after I closed my eyes to get higher jhanas. I cut things short after 25 minutes because I had fallen asleep.
However, I had a little time to myself in the evening, so I practiced jhanas again, with the intent of deepening sixth in order to better develop the Witness. Got pretty sleepy, but then came wide awake at the chime with my body buzzing and tingling. Continued to practice using eye-focus techniques, and found that I had unusually vivid and hard access to jhanas. Rupa and arupa jhanas were pretty clear, and I could almost trivially incline my mind to change jhanas. I also found that I had some access to pureland jhanas, but it was indistinct and hazy. There was one (11th perhaps?) where I could feel a distinct change in the feel of my breath - smooth, silky, very pleasurable. I was starting to experiment with nirodha, but got interrrupted and ended the session. My body buzzed and tingled for a while afterward.
Did not have much time to sit before work, so I did my 10 minute drill: set a chime for every two minutes, then did 2 minutes each on breath, body, vedana, feelings, and thoughts.
I realized at some point that I could note quadruplets now, something that I gave up on prior to first path. Noted this way solidly most of the way to work.
Did some kasina practice at lunch, then got sleepy after I closed my eyes to get higher jhanas. I cut things short after 25 minutes because I had fallen asleep.
However, I had a little time to myself in the evening, so I practiced jhanas again, with the intent of deepening sixth in order to better develop the Witness. Got pretty sleepy, but then came wide awake at the chime with my body buzzing and tingling. Continued to practice using eye-focus techniques, and found that I had unusually vivid and hard access to jhanas. Rupa and arupa jhanas were pretty clear, and I could almost trivially incline my mind to change jhanas. I also found that I had some access to pureland jhanas, but it was indistinct and hazy. There was one (11th perhaps?) where I could feel a distinct change in the feel of my breath - smooth, silky, very pleasurable. I was starting to experiment with nirodha, but got interrrupted and ended the session. My body buzzed and tingled for a while afterward.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76078
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Starting Over
11/17
Did my 10 minute drill again before driving to work. Initially, it was pretty easy to continue noting, but I started having trouble with noting mindstates/feelings and thoughts. Eventually, it got to where I was gettting more and more embedded. By the time I got to work, I was getting lost in though a lot.
At lunch, I went back to working on jhanas. Did some kasina work, and then closed my eyes. Instead of jhana, I seemed to start the cycle, but it was hard to tell where I was. I started getting bliss coming up. Near the end, I explored holding concentration on the inside of my skull, and was eventually rewarded with a long, drawn-out, sliding feeling, along with my attention shrinking way down, before getting a strange-feeling bliss wave that lasted maybe 15-30 seconds. Hard to tell if this was related to the bliss I was feeling earlier, though.
Did my 10 minute drill again before driving to work. Initially, it was pretty easy to continue noting, but I started having trouble with noting mindstates/feelings and thoughts. Eventually, it got to where I was gettting more and more embedded. By the time I got to work, I was getting lost in though a lot.
At lunch, I went back to working on jhanas. Did some kasina work, and then closed my eyes. Instead of jhana, I seemed to start the cycle, but it was hard to tell where I was. I started getting bliss coming up. Near the end, I explored holding concentration on the inside of my skull, and was eventually rewarded with a long, drawn-out, sliding feeling, along with my attention shrinking way down, before getting a strange-feeling bliss wave that lasted maybe 15-30 seconds. Hard to tell if this was related to the bliss I was feeling earlier, though.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76079
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Starting Over
Friday, 11/18
Woke up before the alarm and was able to do 20 minutes of jhana practice before getting out of bed. When I do it right after waking up, it seems to be much more physical: there was lots of tingling and body vibration.
Did the 10 minute drill again before work, and was able to stay in the Witness longer once on the highway. However, by the time I got to work, I had pretty much lost the thread of mindfulness.
20 minutes of noting at lunch. Finished up the session with exploring the inside of my skull and had some sort of reaction that didn't really feel like a fruition, but almost felt like waking up from deep sleep quickly. There was some of that quiet space, mental silence for a short while. The aftermath seemed to last 30-45 seconds, maybe. I don't think I crossed the 'event horizon,' but something definitely happened.
Woke up before the alarm and was able to do 20 minutes of jhana practice before getting out of bed. When I do it right after waking up, it seems to be much more physical: there was lots of tingling and body vibration.
Did the 10 minute drill again before work, and was able to stay in the Witness longer once on the highway. However, by the time I got to work, I had pretty much lost the thread of mindfulness.
20 minutes of noting at lunch. Finished up the session with exploring the inside of my skull and had some sort of reaction that didn't really feel like a fruition, but almost felt like waking up from deep sleep quickly. There was some of that quiet space, mental silence for a short while. The aftermath seemed to last 30-45 seconds, maybe. I don't think I crossed the 'event horizon,' but something definitely happened.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76080
by andymr
I have not been feeling very motivated to practice lately, and coupled with a shortage of time to sit, this has naturally let to less practice.
The review stuff seems to have died down for the most part. I haven't gotten a review fruition for a while now. My concentration is not as strong as it was, and sitting seems like work again. I'm guessing that I'm probably done with the review phase of the last path, but I don't quite feel ready (or motivated) yet to start on the next path. However, I'm not really sure what I might be waiting for.
So, I guess this is as good a time as any to call the last path done, and to start the next one:
1. I resolve to attain to the next path as quickly and efficiently as reasonably possible for the sake of all sentient beings, including me.
2. I resolve to experience increased clarity and awareness of nyanas, jhanas, and any other sensations and states that may come up for me on and off the cushion.
3. I resolve to more quickly see my stuff if and when it does come up and to not let it bleed through to any of my relationships.
Replied by andymr on topic Once more time
I have not been feeling very motivated to practice lately, and coupled with a shortage of time to sit, this has naturally let to less practice.
The review stuff seems to have died down for the most part. I haven't gotten a review fruition for a while now. My concentration is not as strong as it was, and sitting seems like work again. I'm guessing that I'm probably done with the review phase of the last path, but I don't quite feel ready (or motivated) yet to start on the next path. However, I'm not really sure what I might be waiting for.
So, I guess this is as good a time as any to call the last path done, and to start the next one:
1. I resolve to attain to the next path as quickly and efficiently as reasonably possible for the sake of all sentient beings, including me.
2. I resolve to experience increased clarity and awareness of nyanas, jhanas, and any other sensations and states that may come up for me on and off the cushion.
3. I resolve to more quickly see my stuff if and when it does come up and to not let it bleed through to any of my relationships.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76081
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Tuesday, 11/22
20 minutes of noting practice in my car before driving to work. Was able to keep practice going on the road, and had a few long moments where I saw my body driving, reacting to the road and traffic all on its own, and where I clearly saw the sensations of all of that arising and passing. Was able to practice all the way to work.
At lunch, I started with breath-watching, and early on my eyes slowly tightened up, focused in before releasing. Eventually I started noting, and within a short time, I felt bliss come up, then some coolness and then a cold chill ran through me. Things got a bit dreamy after that, and the whole thing cycled this way for a while. After around 20 minutes, I switched to some HAIETMOBA to change things around, and then worked on Witness practice. I found it hard to concentrate, and drifted at times. Still, at the end, it felt like I managed to do some work.
In the evening, I was reading in bed. I kept feeling this gentle whole-body swirly vertigo that I've associated with early vipassana jhanas. I closed my eyes for a few minutes, and it was easy to concentrate on the four foundations. Did a very quick run up through the jhanas up to eighth, mainly trying to see if I was really concentrated. The sensations of each jhana were very, very light and barely noticeable.
20 minutes of noting practice in my car before driving to work. Was able to keep practice going on the road, and had a few long moments where I saw my body driving, reacting to the road and traffic all on its own, and where I clearly saw the sensations of all of that arising and passing. Was able to practice all the way to work.
At lunch, I started with breath-watching, and early on my eyes slowly tightened up, focused in before releasing. Eventually I started noting, and within a short time, I felt bliss come up, then some coolness and then a cold chill ran through me. Things got a bit dreamy after that, and the whole thing cycled this way for a while. After around 20 minutes, I switched to some HAIETMOBA to change things around, and then worked on Witness practice. I found it hard to concentrate, and drifted at times. Still, at the end, it felt like I managed to do some work.
In the evening, I was reading in bed. I kept feeling this gentle whole-body swirly vertigo that I've associated with early vipassana jhanas. I closed my eyes for a few minutes, and it was easy to concentrate on the four foundations. Did a very quick run up through the jhanas up to eighth, mainly trying to see if I was really concentrated. The sensations of each jhana were very, very light and barely noticeable.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76082
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Wed 11/23
Started the morning session with a lot of monkey mind, but it got quieter as I noted. I didn't have a sense of progressing through the nyanas, but I did feel a single shift at one point. It seems like it became a bit easier to see phenomena and sensations. Iontinued to note as I started the car and got on the highway, and I initially found that noting took work. However, I focused on the sense of 'me' in my body and in my head, and then while holding some concentration on that, I asked, 'what is the next sensation, and how does it appear to the me?'
I worked on each foundation in turn, starting with body sensations, and when I moved to vedana, it just seemed to open up and flow. I was able to continuously note the incoming stream of sensations as vedana. Before, I've had this almost mechanical step of first noticing the sensation as the first foundation, and then looking at the vedana of it. Today, it was just a continuous stream of vedana and all I had to do was to note what was coming up next. This held true for feeling/mind-states, but it was harder for thoughts, and I was not able to sustain noting thoughts. Still, this felt like a huge change.
At lunch, I started with some kasina, then moved to noting. Had some initial discomfort in my neck, then some itches, then a big rush of pleasure. After that I cycled from dreaminess to clarity, sometimes having a rush of tingles, but more often no. I'm pretty sure I got sleepy, so I probably drifted in and out of sleep.
Started the morning session with a lot of monkey mind, but it got quieter as I noted. I didn't have a sense of progressing through the nyanas, but I did feel a single shift at one point. It seems like it became a bit easier to see phenomena and sensations. Iontinued to note as I started the car and got on the highway, and I initially found that noting took work. However, I focused on the sense of 'me' in my body and in my head, and then while holding some concentration on that, I asked, 'what is the next sensation, and how does it appear to the me?'
I worked on each foundation in turn, starting with body sensations, and when I moved to vedana, it just seemed to open up and flow. I was able to continuously note the incoming stream of sensations as vedana. Before, I've had this almost mechanical step of first noticing the sensation as the first foundation, and then looking at the vedana of it. Today, it was just a continuous stream of vedana and all I had to do was to note what was coming up next. This held true for feeling/mind-states, but it was harder for thoughts, and I was not able to sustain noting thoughts. Still, this felt like a huge change.
At lunch, I started with some kasina, then moved to noting. Had some initial discomfort in my neck, then some itches, then a big rush of pleasure. After that I cycled from dreaminess to clarity, sometimes having a rush of tingles, but more often no. I'm pretty sure I got sleepy, so I probably drifted in and out of sleep.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76083
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
I haven't written here in a while, and have had little interest in writing. Over the last couple of weeks, my formal practice has dropped off. A lot of it is scheduling and general busyness (which will remain with me through the holidays), but I'm also feeling much less motivated than I was. Concentration is difficult again, and it seems to take me a long time to get anywhere when I am able to concentrate some.
Additionally, I'm having some background emotional issues and thoughts that generally come up during the holidays, and have for years. All of this adds to my overall mental lethargy about meditation and the general complexity of figuring out how to proceed.
I think I'm grasping at how I felt and how my mind behaved immediately after the last path, and have been feeling disappointment in how this has all now faded away. I'm asking myself, 'What's the point of getting more and more states/stages/paths, since ultimately all accomplishments will prove unsatisfactory?' In some ways, this is probably exactly where I need to be, but the lack of motivation remains and I'm often confused about what I should be doing at this point in my practice.
If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, I'll gladly listen. For the meantime, I plan on going back to basics for a while and restarting a formal daily practice with some mindfulness of breathing and some noting, even if it's only 15 minutes a day.
Additionally, I'm having some background emotional issues and thoughts that generally come up during the holidays, and have for years. All of this adds to my overall mental lethargy about meditation and the general complexity of figuring out how to proceed.
I think I'm grasping at how I felt and how my mind behaved immediately after the last path, and have been feeling disappointment in how this has all now faded away. I'm asking myself, 'What's the point of getting more and more states/stages/paths, since ultimately all accomplishments will prove unsatisfactory?' In some ways, this is probably exactly where I need to be, but the lack of motivation remains and I'm often confused about what I should be doing at this point in my practice.
If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, I'll gladly listen. For the meantime, I plan on going back to basics for a while and restarting a formal daily practice with some mindfulness of breathing and some noting, even if it's only 15 minutes a day.
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76084
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Once more time
I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but can you notice that despite how bad things get, you are still having an experience?
That fact alone is pretty incredible.
Mind goes "blah, blah, blah" yet you are still here and aware of the thinking.
Notice: You are aware of that without effort.
The body and mind are constantly changing. That change is registered without effort in the light of awareness (ie. it is experienced without effort).
That fact alone is pretty incredible.
Mind goes "blah, blah, blah" yet you are still here and aware of the thinking.
Notice: You are aware of that without effort.
The body and mind are constantly changing. That change is registered without effort in the light of awareness (ie. it is experienced without effort).
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76085
by andymr
You're not coming across as a broken record at all, Jayson. I appreciate your comments.
So when I do stop to think about it it, I can notice that awareness is happening all the time, that it's happening even if I'm not noticing it, that the process of awareness itself is effortless. I can always rely on awareness to be present.
But, I don't think about it all the time, and when I do think about it, I don't see any big reaction to it within myself. It doesn't come across as you put it, 'That fact alone is pretty incredible.'
When I first read "The Experiental Discovery of Awareness,"
docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AdIyLjP...TM1ZjZmejhzY20&hl=en ,
I had some big aha moments, a strong sense of the incredibleness of it, but I don't seem to feel that same sense of wonder and excitement about it now. I surely don't feel 'liberated' in any way as a result of it, and now it's just stuff that I notice happening from time to time.
Perhaps this speaks to my current level of realization (or better yet, to my lack thereof).
(cont...)
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
You're not coming across as a broken record at all, Jayson. I appreciate your comments.
So when I do stop to think about it it, I can notice that awareness is happening all the time, that it's happening even if I'm not noticing it, that the process of awareness itself is effortless. I can always rely on awareness to be present.
But, I don't think about it all the time, and when I do think about it, I don't see any big reaction to it within myself. It doesn't come across as you put it, 'That fact alone is pretty incredible.'
When I first read "The Experiental Discovery of Awareness,"
docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AdIyLjP...TM1ZjZmejhzY20&hl=en ,
I had some big aha moments, a strong sense of the incredibleness of it, but I don't seem to feel that same sense of wonder and excitement about it now. I surely don't feel 'liberated' in any way as a result of it, and now it's just stuff that I notice happening from time to time.
Perhaps this speaks to my current level of realization (or better yet, to my lack thereof).
(cont...)
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76086
by andymr
Yet, In some ways, this is what I'm trying to get at in the post you responded to. So I had this realization about the nature awareness a while back, and it felt pretty insightful, and it let me see my experience of consciousness in a different light. A lot of wonder and joy came up as a result, but within a few weeks that insight began to feel much more neutral. Same with a lot of other realizations I've had. I'm better off having had the insights than not, but eventually, they all prove unsatisfactory.
Perhaps this is depression, or cynicism, or negativity, or Dark Night talking but having more insights into [insert your favorite aspect of reality here] often just seems to perpetuate the grasping for more insights. So, once I have that 'final awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping, deep, deep mother-of-them-all realization', then all my problems will be solved.
But that's not what's happening at all. That way just leads to more troubles, hence my lack of motivation. Somewhere, I've lost sight of the simple enjoyment of just playing, and have become focused on how and when I can make it to the next level in the attainments game.
I want that to be different. (wanting, disappointment, wanting, anticipation, hopefulness, wanting...)
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Yet, In some ways, this is what I'm trying to get at in the post you responded to. So I had this realization about the nature awareness a while back, and it felt pretty insightful, and it let me see my experience of consciousness in a different light. A lot of wonder and joy came up as a result, but within a few weeks that insight began to feel much more neutral. Same with a lot of other realizations I've had. I'm better off having had the insights than not, but eventually, they all prove unsatisfactory.
Perhaps this is depression, or cynicism, or negativity, or Dark Night talking but having more insights into [insert your favorite aspect of reality here] often just seems to perpetuate the grasping for more insights. So, once I have that 'final awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping, deep, deep mother-of-them-all realization', then all my problems will be solved.
But that's not what's happening at all. That way just leads to more troubles, hence my lack of motivation. Somewhere, I've lost sight of the simple enjoyment of just playing, and have become focused on how and when I can make it to the next level in the attainments game.
I want that to be different. (wanting, disappointment, wanting, anticipation, hopefulness, wanting...)
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76087
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Once more time
Can you see the tension in your body underlying all this wanting, questioning, restlessness, etc. ?
Can you simply rest and allow those tensions to blossom into energy?
Can you simply rest and allow those tensions to blossom into energy?
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76088
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
I'm not exactly sure, but I will try to play with it.
Yes, I can see physical tension in my body for some of those states, but not for others. Restlessness, for example, is easier to see than hoping.
For me, resting brings to mind equanimity (in the Buddhist technical sense) and acceptance (in the psychological sense), but I'm not sure I understand what "allow those tensions to blossom into energy" really means.
Can you provide a specific example of how this works for you and what it feels like when it happens?
Is there any similarity to Direct Mode practice?
Yes, I can see physical tension in my body for some of those states, but not for others. Restlessness, for example, is easier to see than hoping.
For me, resting brings to mind equanimity (in the Buddhist technical sense) and acceptance (in the psychological sense), but I'm not sure I understand what "allow those tensions to blossom into energy" really means.
Can you provide a specific example of how this works for you and what it feels like when it happens?
Is there any similarity to Direct Mode practice?
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76089
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Once more time
Yes - like direct mode. Notice the body, drop any resistance to feeling the tension and aching that seems to make it up. Then, notice the actual experience towards which the word "restlessness" or "hoping" points.
Notice that they can be felt as points of condensed energy. Allow it to be there and do nothing other than allow it to unfold and open up.
To me this feels as though the hard points of tension become more fluid points of energy which eventually seems to give off a feeling of coolness.
Key to this seems to be realizing no effort is acquired to allow this process to happen. It is almost like ceasing to ignore the body which is always present and would be felt at all times barring other distractions.
Notice that they can be felt as points of condensed energy. Allow it to be there and do nothing other than allow it to unfold and open up.
To me this feels as though the hard points of tension become more fluid points of energy which eventually seems to give off a feeling of coolness.
Key to this seems to be realizing no effort is acquired to allow this process to happen. It is almost like ceasing to ignore the body which is always present and would be felt at all times barring other distractions.
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76090
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Once more time
I would also add that energy from tension is released when we let go of the need to feel pleasantness again (in that particular tense spot). Instead, you can just let any benefit, pleasantness, and wanted sensation just go away.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76091
by andymr
Thanks for the comments, guys. I'll play with this.
A few additional questions:
- How do you notice tension manifesting for you? Does it come across as physical only, or is there a mental component apart from the sense of resistance?
- Do the points of tension typically appear in the same body locations for the same kinds of tension or do they float around in different places?
- What do you notice happening as a result of releasing the energy of the tensions?
- Is the point of this practice to help letting things be as they are in the body?
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Thanks for the comments, guys. I'll play with this.
A few additional questions:
- How do you notice tension manifesting for you? Does it come across as physical only, or is there a mental component apart from the sense of resistance?
- Do the points of tension typically appear in the same body locations for the same kinds of tension or do they float around in different places?
- What do you notice happening as a result of releasing the energy of the tensions?
- Is the point of this practice to help letting things be as they are in the body?
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76092
by mumuwu
Thanks for the comments, guys. I'll play with this.
A few additional questions:
- How do you notice tension manifesting for you? Does it come across as physical only, or is there a mental component apart from the sense of resistance?
Clearly there's a component of physical pain & solidity and mental tension (perhaps better labeled mentally triggered tension). However, if you simply analyze your experience into sense doors, I'd just lump it all into the feeling category (bodily sensations).
- Do the points of tension typically appear in the same body locations for the same kinds of tension or do they float around in different places?
There's just a network of various points in the body. It can change rapidly, however there are certain places that tend to show up as tension on a recurring basis
- What do you notice happening as a result of releasing the energy of the tensions?
Less tension, greater clarity
- Is the point of this practice to help letting things be as they are in the body?
The point of the practice is to stop escaping the feelings of craving and aversion in the body (and thus fueling them) and to allow them to burn off in the absence of fuel.
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Once more time
Thanks for the comments, guys. I'll play with this.
A few additional questions:
- How do you notice tension manifesting for you? Does it come across as physical only, or is there a mental component apart from the sense of resistance?
Clearly there's a component of physical pain & solidity and mental tension (perhaps better labeled mentally triggered tension). However, if you simply analyze your experience into sense doors, I'd just lump it all into the feeling category (bodily sensations).
- Do the points of tension typically appear in the same body locations for the same kinds of tension or do they float around in different places?
There's just a network of various points in the body. It can change rapidly, however there are certain places that tend to show up as tension on a recurring basis
- What do you notice happening as a result of releasing the energy of the tensions?
Less tension, greater clarity
- Is the point of this practice to help letting things be as they are in the body?
The point of the practice is to stop escaping the feelings of craving and aversion in the body (and thus fueling them) and to allow them to burn off in the absence of fuel.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 11 months ago #76093
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Weekend of 12/3
So, keeping the above hints and tips in mind, I finally got the chance to do some extended practice over the weekend
Saturday:
Over 5 hrs practice, most of it on the road. Had a couple of formal sessions where I got into this pleasant spaciousness, but no body vibrations, just calm peacefulness. Intended to sit 30, ended up sitting 75.
Sunday:
Intended to sit for a minimum of 30, but ended up with 80 minutes when it was all over. Started with Witness, looking for the physical and mental sensations of the sense of 'I' and ended up with the same stable, calm peacefulness, spaciousness as yesterday. There were times that my body was felt part of the entire field of experience and not very distinct from it. Occasional ripples and disturbances from thoughts came and went but ended back up in the calmness. I just sat, taking it all in. Noting didn't seem to fit this state, and looking for the Witness was not productive. I didn't really notice sensations flickering, and there was little body sensation.
All in all, it was very restful, peaceful, pleasant, and calm and all I needed to do was just be present for it. I'm curious if this is third gear.
So, keeping the above hints and tips in mind, I finally got the chance to do some extended practice over the weekend
Saturday:
Over 5 hrs practice, most of it on the road. Had a couple of formal sessions where I got into this pleasant spaciousness, but no body vibrations, just calm peacefulness. Intended to sit 30, ended up sitting 75.
Sunday:
Intended to sit for a minimum of 30, but ended up with 80 minutes when it was all over. Started with Witness, looking for the physical and mental sensations of the sense of 'I' and ended up with the same stable, calm peacefulness, spaciousness as yesterday. There were times that my body was felt part of the entire field of experience and not very distinct from it. Occasional ripples and disturbances from thoughts came and went but ended back up in the calmness. I just sat, taking it all in. Noting didn't seem to fit this state, and looking for the Witness was not productive. I didn't really notice sensations flickering, and there was little body sensation.
All in all, it was very restful, peaceful, pleasant, and calm and all I needed to do was just be present for it. I'm curious if this is third gear.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 10 months ago #76094
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
12/6
My sits have been fairly similar the last few times:
Here's one:
At lunch, I worked on kasina for a while. I felt distracted through it, and started getting droopy eyes near the end of the kasina work. I rearranged myself, and started noting. I didn't really feel passage through nyanas, but it felt like things developed. I stopped noting and just sat. At one point, I felt subtle uncomfortable body vibrations before the onset of stillness. It seemed like things just continued to deepen and quiet down on their own without me having to do anything to get there except just be there for the experience. Found myself drifting in dreaminess a few times, more so near the end.
Here's another:
I started with the Witness. Initially, I found myself getting embedded in thinking, but this changed and I was able to follow thoughts. Then, I had a period of longer-lasting itches that subsided. I felt a quick rush of pleasant bliss. At some point, I started to feel this deep calm and pleasantness and thoughts dropped away. I remember feeling some subtle uncomfortable vibrations in my chest, but these passed, leaving this solid-feeling state that I wanted to stay in forever. There was a stillness and a solidity to sensations, with little to no flickering of the three characteristics like I would have expected in Equanimity. Occasionally, a thought would surface, and sometimes I'd see additional thoughts that would try to come up, but they would quickly fade away and the stillness would come back. I had intended to sit for 30 minutes, but sat way past the chime.
That deep calm, pleasantness, and stillness is so restful.
My sits have been fairly similar the last few times:
Here's one:
At lunch, I worked on kasina for a while. I felt distracted through it, and started getting droopy eyes near the end of the kasina work. I rearranged myself, and started noting. I didn't really feel passage through nyanas, but it felt like things developed. I stopped noting and just sat. At one point, I felt subtle uncomfortable body vibrations before the onset of stillness. It seemed like things just continued to deepen and quiet down on their own without me having to do anything to get there except just be there for the experience. Found myself drifting in dreaminess a few times, more so near the end.
Here's another:
I started with the Witness. Initially, I found myself getting embedded in thinking, but this changed and I was able to follow thoughts. Then, I had a period of longer-lasting itches that subsided. I felt a quick rush of pleasant bliss. At some point, I started to feel this deep calm and pleasantness and thoughts dropped away. I remember feeling some subtle uncomfortable vibrations in my chest, but these passed, leaving this solid-feeling state that I wanted to stay in forever. There was a stillness and a solidity to sensations, with little to no flickering of the three characteristics like I would have expected in Equanimity. Occasionally, a thought would surface, and sometimes I'd see additional thoughts that would try to come up, but they would quickly fade away and the stillness would come back. I had intended to sit for 30 minutes, but sat way past the chime.
That deep calm, pleasantness, and stillness is so restful.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 10 months ago #76095
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Wednesday, 12/7
Morning: 15 minutes before work. Did the 10 minute drill, but didn't really get settled until about the 15 minute mark. Felt more of the calmness, pleasantness, and I was able to maintain this starting the car, getting on the highway and driving to work. Noticed how the width of attention changed as I got into a higher traffic area. Panoramic awareness narrowed down to the scope of the driving situation and went back as less attention was needed.
Evening: It was hard to concentrate on the drive home, and I gave up before I got home.
Morning: 15 minutes before work. Did the 10 minute drill, but didn't really get settled until about the 15 minute mark. Felt more of the calmness, pleasantness, and I was able to maintain this starting the car, getting on the highway and driving to work. Noticed how the width of attention changed as I got into a higher traffic area. Panoramic awareness narrowed down to the scope of the driving situation and went back as less attention was needed.
Evening: It was hard to concentrate on the drive home, and I gave up before I got home.
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 10 months ago #76096
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Thursday, 12/8
Morning: Was able to get mentally settled down fairly quickly with noting, and even though I felt a strong heartbeat and vibration in a chest, a pleasant, calmness soon settled in. Attempted to get into the Witness and wasn't able to stay in it. On the road to work, was able to note/notice fairly consistently all the way to work.
Lunch:
Had been feeling some pleasantness and some bliss during the morning. Started my session with 3x10 breathing and settled in pretty quickly. Moved to the witness, and fairly quickly I started to feel pleasantness, which grew to bliss several times before fading back. After that, it got a bit confusing and dreamy for a while. I remember drifting mentally and feeling a lot of bliss on occasion, and a few times, I felt distinct coolness and prickliness on my skin. The bliss came and went, and by the time the chime went off, I think I was in this twilight state: not asleep, but not awake, but not dreaming, but not thinking much.
I was feeling very blissful, and after the chime rang, I continued to sit. The blissfulness increased some. I started to move my attention around on the inside of my skull, and when I got to the area between my right ear and my spine, I started feeling a sort of vertigo building up. The first few time it peaked without much happening, but it kept getting stronger each time I tried it. The last time, I felt this full-body vertigo, almost like I was spinning. I relaxed into it, and it got much stronger and there was this long moment of the outside world fading away, then thoughts, then body sensations. Suddenly it all came back and I was feeling a lot of bliss, and there was this stillness for a while, maybe a minute or so.
cont...
Morning: Was able to get mentally settled down fairly quickly with noting, and even though I felt a strong heartbeat and vibration in a chest, a pleasant, calmness soon settled in. Attempted to get into the Witness and wasn't able to stay in it. On the road to work, was able to note/notice fairly consistently all the way to work.
Lunch:
Had been feeling some pleasantness and some bliss during the morning. Started my session with 3x10 breathing and settled in pretty quickly. Moved to the witness, and fairly quickly I started to feel pleasantness, which grew to bliss several times before fading back. After that, it got a bit confusing and dreamy for a while. I remember drifting mentally and feeling a lot of bliss on occasion, and a few times, I felt distinct coolness and prickliness on my skin. The bliss came and went, and by the time the chime went off, I think I was in this twilight state: not asleep, but not awake, but not dreaming, but not thinking much.
I was feeling very blissful, and after the chime rang, I continued to sit. The blissfulness increased some. I started to move my attention around on the inside of my skull, and when I got to the area between my right ear and my spine, I started feeling a sort of vertigo building up. The first few time it peaked without much happening, but it kept getting stronger each time I tried it. The last time, I felt this full-body vertigo, almost like I was spinning. I relaxed into it, and it got much stronger and there was this long moment of the outside world fading away, then thoughts, then body sensations. Suddenly it all came back and I was feeling a lot of bliss, and there was this stillness for a while, maybe a minute or so.
cont...
- andymr
- Topic Author
13 years 10 months ago #76097
by andymr
Replied by andymr on topic RE: Once more time
Thursday, 12/8 cont...
When I opened my eyes, I could see the arms and legs in the lower part of my peripheral vision, and there was this disconnect where I knew that these were my arms and legs, but yet they were just arms and legs.
The body bliss faded, but later in the afternoon, I could get the pleasantness and sometimes bliss when I'd concentrate. In the evening, the bliss got pretty strong a number of time, especially during a middle school band concert. If I closed my eyes and concentrated on the music, I would get vertigo and the music would expand to fill my awareness pretty quickly.
When I opened my eyes, I could see the arms and legs in the lower part of my peripheral vision, and there was this disconnect where I knew that these were my arms and legs, but yet they were just arms and legs.
The body bliss faded, but later in the afternoon, I could get the pleasantness and sometimes bliss when I'd concentrate. In the evening, the bliss got pretty strong a number of time, especially during a middle school band concert. If I closed my eyes and concentrated on the music, I would get vertigo and the music would expand to fill my awareness pretty quickly.
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
13 years 10 months ago #76098
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Once more time
Whoa. Sounds promising Andy. Keep us posted if anything else seems different. Also, see if you can do it again!
