Laurel's practice
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77168
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
Unbearable, grinding sadness, a sense of loss, grief, I look at my whole life, my whole past, and it seems like so much smoke, nothing there, so fragile, so much effort to hold it all together and no energy, just loss. Emailed some old friends who have moved far, far away. Family deaths, job loss, divorce, alienation, friends who have cancer, my husband's workplace dwindling away, I can't even look back to a stable past and say, that was wonderful, because I know it wasn't. Can't meditate. Is this the path or my depression talking? I don't know. Don't normal people have some sort of happiness they can hold onto? Or is it all smoke? I feel as if whatever I had, however meager it was, is just slipping away into nothingness, something I can't recognize. I want to go back to wherever I was before I was born.
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77169
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
This sounds very "desire for deliverance"-ish.
This will pass too JLaurelC.
Metta!!!!
This will pass too JLaurelC.
Metta!!!!
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77170
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
I just hope others reading this aren't scared off of the path because of this stuff. It feels pretty awful. My reason for posting is to document it, the good, the bad, and the ugly. My strategy now is to get back to business, do whatever I can, stop wallowing. A question, though, for whoever: I gather that with Re-Observation, people cycle through the fear, misery, disgust, and desire for deliverance over and over, which is what I think I'm probably doing, right? And according to what Kenneth has written on this website, it feels worse each time around. This is about as bad as I've felt in I don't know how long.
- stephencoe100
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77171
by stephencoe100
Replied by stephencoe100 on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
Don't forget that this is progress, although it may not feel like it!
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77172
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
Yes, when I hit re-observation I journaled that it felt like the worst day of my life. Seeing the pattern in it really helped me to stop fighting it and stop wondering what was wrong (it was the dukkha nanas!). Re-observation just goes round and round until suddenly something drops away and you are in equanimity.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77173
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
Thanks, everyone. Yesterday was such misery that I didn't do any meditation--not the most helpful response, but there it is. Today: I feel the temptation to drop into depression nudging around the edges of consciousness, but I'm keeping as busy as possible. Just did 45 minutes of practice, and felt some pressure, even a bit of pain in the heart center for about 5 minutes or so, fading away. I figured if it was something medically serious I would feel it coming back, but it hasn't done that. There was an initial problem of settling into the practice, then finally some calm. Lots of light in the visual field from time to time, some sense of uplift, alternating with sinking into peace. Then I'd find myself getting distracted and it would be back to "listening, listening." That seems to be the pattern with this practice: there'll be a buildup of something (either spaciousness, peace, compassion/joy/love, or lightness) and then there'll be a recurrence of a sort of aversion, to which I'll respond "release, release." The aversion can take the form of wanting to stop, or of feeling foolish, or of boredom.
I kept the clock turned around, then about halfway through realized I was wearing my watch. I took that off, then managed to stay on track until just before the end of the practice when I lost focus, but got back to it again for the last couple of minutes. I'm not finding this easy. No practice is particularly easy at this point, however, so I'm persevering as best I can. I remind myself that things won't change unless I maintain my practice. Then I remind myself of my resolve as well. I'm also trying to note off the cushion when I remember to do it.
I kept the clock turned around, then about halfway through realized I was wearing my watch. I took that off, then managed to stay on track until just before the end of the practice when I lost focus, but got back to it again for the last couple of minutes. I'm not finding this easy. No practice is particularly easy at this point, however, so I'm persevering as best I can. I remind myself that things won't change unless I maintain my practice. Then I remind myself of my resolve as well. I'm also trying to note off the cushion when I remember to do it.
- jgroove
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77174
by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
Hang in there, Laurel!
- WSH3
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77175
by WSH3
Replied by WSH3 on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
"No practice is particularly easy at this point" -
right there with you on that one.
Sometimes I think about how this basic suffering exists in everyone around me and make a wish that they (and myself), in whatever way we can, turn towards the suffering and surrender to find the life of joy and peace underneath.
Sometimes I think about how this basic suffering exists in everyone around me and make a wish that they (and myself), in whatever way we can, turn towards the suffering and surrender to find the life of joy and peace underneath.
- Ed76
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77176
by Ed76
Replied by Ed76 on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
Well done Laurel, your perseverance in the face of adversity, is really inspiring!....hang in there!
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77177
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
"Sometimes I think about how this basic suffering exists in everyone around me and make a wish that they (and myself), in whatever way we can, turn towards the suffering and surrender to find the life of joy and peace underneath."
I thought of this tonight when I did my second meditation--of turning toward the suffering. I was worried at first because I was in the throes of anxiety for a number of people, chiefly my husband, worried about the future--the possibility of job loss--something we all face in this economy, and I had myself worked into a bit of a lather over it, but the practice ended up with joy and peace. I felt a lot of sadness, which I labelled compassion, compassion, and in the middle of all of that my 10-year-old son came barging in on me, but I managed to send him packing without too much disruption, and noted love, love. On the whole, all was well.
I thought of this tonight when I did my second meditation--of turning toward the suffering. I was worried at first because I was in the throes of anxiety for a number of people, chiefly my husband, worried about the future--the possibility of job loss--something we all face in this economy, and I had myself worked into a bit of a lather over it, but the practice ended up with joy and peace. I felt a lot of sadness, which I labelled compassion, compassion, and in the middle of all of that my 10-year-old son came barging in on me, but I managed to send him packing without too much disruption, and noted love, love. On the whole, all was well.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77178
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: Mahamudra noting
There was some really unpleasant stuff off the cushion today, to the point where I found myself wondering who in her right mind would want to do this to herself. I felt anxiety, grief, and nausea, one big beautiful package all together, grinding away getting worse and worse and worse. But then later on it was gone. It's just been coming and going off and on for a good part of the day.
Did some back and forth Mahamudra noting with Colleen. While we were talking I was fine, but when I started the noting I got the tension in the solar plexus. It was hard to work around it. There were also moments of love and peace, however, as well as gratitude. I am finding it hard to release into the suffering. This morning when I was in really bad shape I was feeling plenty sorry for myself. When I'm not in it, I can see the value of acceptance, but when I'm in it all I want is relief. Go figure.
Did some back and forth Mahamudra noting with Colleen. While we were talking I was fine, but when I started the noting I got the tension in the solar plexus. It was hard to work around it. There were also moments of love and peace, however, as well as gratitude. I am finding it hard to release into the suffering. This morning when I was in really bad shape I was feeling plenty sorry for myself. When I'm not in it, I can see the value of acceptance, but when I'm in it all I want is relief. Go figure.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77179
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic New Practice
Well, I kind of blew off a day or so there, but yesterday I had another lesson with Kenneth, and am doing something different: it's a strategy for utilizing as much of the bandwidth as possible, as Kenneth puts it--getting the mind so totally engaged that there's no room left for spinning narratives, a.k.a. suffering. There's a combination of global awareness of the body, hearing, and seeing. I start with a focus on my head and hands, then get a sense of the body as a totality, at the same time hearing/seeing 360 degrees around me. It seems a lot easier than what I was trying to do before. I worked on it this morning and did 45 minutes without a whole lot of resistance. Some thinking went on, but not major. I felt reasonably relaxed and at ease for most of the session. Kenneth calls this technique "crisis intervention," for times when a person is Dark Nighting to the point of out-of-control misery, which has been the case with me. Along with the mental pain there've been strange physical phenomena (pain in the neck and head that keeps migrating, an inability to focus the eyes). The point is to get all that stuff to settle down, to disembed from it.
I've been reading the book _Buddha's Brain_, and finding it not only fascinating but helpful for understanding how suffering is built into the system. It's a great read. Now the goal is to get to Equanimity, although I started thinking that although I want to do this quickly, I also need to work through whatever has to get worked through with this 10th nana.
I've been reading the book _Buddha's Brain_, and finding it not only fascinating but helpful for understanding how suffering is built into the system. It's a great read. Now the goal is to get to Equanimity, although I started thinking that although I want to do this quickly, I also need to work through whatever has to get worked through with this 10th nana.
- Rob_Mtl
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77180
by Rob_Mtl
Replied by Rob_Mtl on topic RE: New Practice
"Now the goal is to get to Equanimity, although I started thinking that although I want to do this quickly, I also need to work through whatever has to get worked through with this 10th nana. "
They're one and the same thing... Equanimity arises when you see the other side of all this- the peaceful side. That's all that this whole thing is about.
So when get to Equanimity, don't worry about whether you really "earned" it... you will have!! To quote Woody Allen (from an utterly different context), "You had the wrong kind? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money. "
They're one and the same thing... Equanimity arises when you see the other side of all this- the peaceful side. That's all that this whole thing is about.
So when get to Equanimity, don't worry about whether you really "earned" it... you will have!! To quote Woody Allen (from an utterly different context), "You had the wrong kind? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money. "
- AnthonyYeshe
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77181
by AnthonyYeshe
Replied by AnthonyYeshe on topic RE: New Practice
"I've been reading the book _Buddha's Brain_, and finding it not only fascinating but helpful for understanding how suffering is built into the system. It's a great read. Now the goal is to get to Equanimity, although I started thinking that although I want to do this quickly, I also need to work through whatever has to get worked through with this 10th nana. "
nice progress!
I have been wanting to read that book. I keep seeing it pop up.
nice progress!
I have been wanting to read that book. I keep seeing it pop up.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77182
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: New Practice
Thanks, everyone. Yesterday I actually thought I might have gotten to Equanimity: I felt good for most of the day, everything was fine, nothing bothered me. Someone actually complimented me on how centered I was!
I woke up this morning with a lot of pain, however, so I did some stretches, and then tried to sit for 45 minutes. This time it wasn't as easy as yesterday; there was a lot of noise in my ears, although no jackhammer heartbeat. I was sleepy quite a lot of the time, found it hard to keep my eyes open, even somewhat painful. I felt a lot of fine vibrations in the body as a whole, but my brain found ways of skipping around the practice and engaging in thinking. The thinking wasn't upsetting or even all that overwhelming, but I found myself getting frustrated. I thought, here I work to carve out precious meditation time, and this is how I waste it. I noted that this was just a reaction, not anything particularly true. I didn't quite make it to the end of the session. This annoyed me. So there it is.
I woke up this morning with a lot of pain, however, so I did some stretches, and then tried to sit for 45 minutes. This time it wasn't as easy as yesterday; there was a lot of noise in my ears, although no jackhammer heartbeat. I was sleepy quite a lot of the time, found it hard to keep my eyes open, even somewhat painful. I felt a lot of fine vibrations in the body as a whole, but my brain found ways of skipping around the practice and engaging in thinking. The thinking wasn't upsetting or even all that overwhelming, but I found myself getting frustrated. I thought, here I work to carve out precious meditation time, and this is how I waste it. I noted that this was just a reaction, not anything particularly true. I didn't quite make it to the end of the session. This annoyed me. So there it is.
- Rob_Mtl
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77183
by Rob_Mtl
Replied by Rob_Mtl on topic RE: New Practice
It probably was Equanimity. Surely Kenneth has used the "army on the march" analogy in your sessions? Your advance-guard is in Equanimity.
In my experience, there can be a period of wavering on the border. I even have a pet theory that Re-Observation and Equanimity are really the same thing- it's just the difference between panoramic-view-plus-discomfort and panoramic-view-without-discomfort.
Don't worry about getting everything perfect. This process goes forward without you having to "master" or "stamp out" anything.
I wish you joy and peace!
In my experience, there can be a period of wavering on the border. I even have a pet theory that Re-Observation and Equanimity are really the same thing- it's just the difference between panoramic-view-plus-discomfort and panoramic-view-without-discomfort.
Don't worry about getting everything perfect. This process goes forward without you having to "master" or "stamp out" anything.
I wish you joy and peace!
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77184
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: New Practice
Actually, I suspected as much--that it's the dawning of the 11th nana, even if I'm not entirely past the 10th. I felt for most of the day yesterday as if I could just let everything be. I was smiling, and thinking, so this is what everyone has been talking about. It's not ecstasy, or anything earth-shattering, it's just a feeling that all is well and I can do this. I am now feeling lots of bodily pain, but I'm also feeling the panoramic view. Hmmm.
- Rob_Mtl
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77185
by Rob_Mtl
Replied by Rob_Mtl on topic RE: New Practice
I figure that the process of "dissolution", which de-conditions us from having faith in all our usual filters and habits, leaves us with this gap of time where we're just assaulted by all this data. The subconscious is running around, screaming "Wait- wait- stop!- what does this mean? And this? And this!?!"
We have no way of knowing how long it will take for the subconscious to settle down, relax, and realize that it has nothing to worry about- that it's not a hailstorm of steel nails, but just a fluffy quiet snowstorm.
That's why I say, don't worry about trying to work issues out before Equanimity. Or to perfect your meditation practice. You have every right to defer those issues, until that perspective shifts, and these things become snowflakes rather than nails. It looks like that shift is starting to happen.
(edit for typo)
We have no way of knowing how long it will take for the subconscious to settle down, relax, and realize that it has nothing to worry about- that it's not a hailstorm of steel nails, but just a fluffy quiet snowstorm.
That's why I say, don't worry about trying to work issues out before Equanimity. Or to perfect your meditation practice. You have every right to defer those issues, until that perspective shifts, and these things become snowflakes rather than nails. It looks like that shift is starting to happen.
(edit for typo)
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77186
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: New Practice
Thanks, Rob; this is just what I need to hear. I had a rather inconclusive and unsatisfying 30 mins. this evening, then went to a concert of chamber music. Music, especially involving stringed instruments, is charged for me--I look forward to the day when I can listen to the Brahms sextet I heard tonight and stop thinking of how I played that once upon a time with friends back almost 30 years ago, and if it hadn't been for my stage fright I could still be doing it, and how the beauty of it is so excruciating to me that I can't stand it, and then the experience is all about me, and not about the music. I start speculating and wondering, how everything I love, or everyone, is always all about me--and of course that's a rabbit hole if there ever was one. Time to just note, tears, sadness, and let it pass. Which is what I did. I still have some D.N. stuff to work over, and I need very much to keep practicing, no matter how unsatisfying or inconclusive.
- Antero.
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77187
by Antero.
Replied by Antero. on topic RE: New Practice
Great practice, Laurel! Your vivid journal is full of details of everyday life and how you live your practice. It is always inpiring to read it.
It seems to me that you are going through a tough and transformative phase in your life. Hang in there!
Metta,
Antero
It seems to me that you are going through a tough and transformative phase in your life. Hang in there!
Metta,
Antero
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77188
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: New Practice
Thanks, Antero; you're right, this is a challenging time. Today I'm back in Dukkhaville, but with the panoramic view. I find it difficult to focus on what's in front of me, even when I'm driving. It's not that I'm not aware and able to see, it's that it keeps fuzzing up. I've had off and on Disgust all day, and my fibromyalgia is firing on all cylinders. Probably all this work at the computer (I'm busy preparing powerpoints for classes) isn't helping.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77189
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: New Practice
Things are settling down again; I'm able for the moment anyway to perceive this agitation as just yet another series of phenomena, no different from other phenomena (like a barking dog or a sneeze, or even like a footstep). Got back from a practice session at the local Buddhist center, feeling good about the practice and the discussion. I have trouble sitting for longer periods these days, so am sitting for shorter periods (20 minutes yesterday, but it was good). If I can feel the mind start to settle, it is helpful. I will keep practicing and see where it goes, keep an open mind. I think I got caught up in the drama of "I'm in Equanimity! Yay! Good for me!" Then when things slid to harshness and constriction I was blindsided, took it personally.
- nadavspi
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77190
by nadavspi
Replied by nadavspi on topic RE: New Practice
Sounds good, Laurel. It's common to slide back and forth between the dukkha nanas and equanimity.
Have you tried beginning your sits with a period of walking? That can be helpful for getting warmed up and sustaining mindfulness for longer periods of time.
Have you tried beginning your sits with a period of walking? That can be helpful for getting warmed up and sustaining mindfulness for longer periods of time.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77191
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic RE: New Practice
"Sounds good, Laurel. It's common to slide back and forth between the dukkha nanas and equanimity.
Have you tried beginning your sits with a period of walking? That can be helpful for getting warmed up and sustaining mindfulness for longer periods of time.
"
I tried that combination and it was great--got pretty good focus. I've had a couple of good days, but nothing like the Equanimity of last week.
Have you tried beginning your sits with a period of walking? That can be helpful for getting warmed up and sustaining mindfulness for longer periods of time.
"
I tried that combination and it was great--got pretty good focus. I've had a couple of good days, but nothing like the Equanimity of last week.
- JLaurelC
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #77192
by JLaurelC
Replied by JLaurelC on topic FearMiseryDisgust
Today I circled around all three. Was near (or over the line of) tears several times, had a nice bout of Fear out driving a route I'm totally familiar with and drive all the time (I was being tailgated, though, which I hate), and now I've got the nasty stomach and the metallic taste in my mouth yet again. I had a lesson with Beth Resnick-Folk this afternoon, and I'm back to my noting practice. Actually, I can probably do whatever strikes me as the right thing to do. I'm not taking any of this Dukkha stuff too seriously, even though I have to say I don't like it.
I have been noting off the cushion, as much as possible. While I was driving I was noting the discomfort, although at one point I thought it might be prudent to knock it off b/c I was getting into escalation My brain was doing panicky flip-flops while my son was playing with his Nintendo in the back seat. Actually, though, I've had much worse PTSD stuff in the past. What I didn't do was start thinking, oh no, this is awful, I'm going to be impaired forever, blah blah blah. I thought instead, this is just fear.
During practice was able to feel some lightness and joy. Beth and I did a mixture of four foundations of mindfulness and Mahamudra. It's rather easy to slide back and forth. The Mahamudra actually helped stabilize the sadness and fear, so I'm keeping it in my toolkit.
I have been noting off the cushion, as much as possible. While I was driving I was noting the discomfort, although at one point I thought it might be prudent to knock it off b/c I was getting into escalation My brain was doing panicky flip-flops while my son was playing with his Nintendo in the back seat. Actually, though, I've had much worse PTSD stuff in the past. What I didn't do was start thinking, oh no, this is awful, I'm going to be impaired forever, blah blah blah. I thought instead, this is just fear.
During practice was able to feel some lightness and joy. Beth and I did a mixture of four foundations of mindfulness and Mahamudra. It's rather easy to slide back and forth. The Mahamudra actually helped stabilize the sadness and fear, so I'm keeping it in my toolkit.
