Laurel's practice

Actually, both comments together are helpful. I like the idea of looking right at both nyanas--10 and 11--to get a sense of their transitory quality. I have liked the equanimity I have experienced, but know from experience that it is unstable, so I am not tempted to settle for that. At the moment I'm thinking that Rob's theory--that they are two sides to the same coin--has merit. I'm feeling a lot of pain today, fatigue, and that's okay.

It's been another difficult day. I woke up with a lot of pain this morning, lower back, upper back, and head in particular; in fact, I had a dream just before I woke up that I was getting surgery, and instead of anaesthesia they gave me a paralysis drug by mistake, and were starting operating on my head. Not a nice way to wake up. Didn't meditate. Eventually took painkillers after trying without success to deal with the pain mindfully. Have been spinning in narrative of one sort or another all day and craving chocolate. Went to the local sangha and meditated for half an hour a little while ago, and it was a great big snooze fest. There was, as often is the case, a lot of noise coming in from the street. This didn't seem to bother me, nor did the sleepiness all that much. In fact, the one good thing I can say is I've just stood back and watched myself with all this nonsense today; the one time I lost it was over some frustrating technology. Can't quite disembed from that kind of thing yet.

I'm going to see my yoga instructor tomorrow and consult with her some more about chakra stuff. My base and solar-plexus chakras are underdeveloped, while my throat is overdeveloped, not that any of that is a surprise.

Not so much pain this morning. Got up and meditated, seated, for 45 minutes, followed by 35 minutes of walking. The seated meditation followed the pattern I've been experiencing lately: after settling with the breath, I begin noting for awhile, then fade to dreaminess, alternating with vibrations beginning in the arms. This time the vibrations spread down the abdomen into the lower body, almost including the legs. They tended to be stronger on the left side than the right. There was also a tendency as the session wore on for the vibrations to become more and more harsh, like static electricity. I didn't fight the dreaminess aggressively, but when I realized it had taken over I brought my awareness back through noting and then settled into the vibrations.

I would say that the bulk of my practice these days is bare attention rather than noting. The noting gets things started, and restarted when necessary, but then I settle into being present in the body. The walking session was, as expected, more active, with narrative threads coming and going. There is a woman at my local sangha with whom I've had some conflict. I have silly fantasies about getting stream entry just to rub it in her face--so funny! During my retreat last month I thought about her a lot as an interlocutor in my head. I guess she's some sort of archtypal mother I'm trying to impress. Anyway, my feelings about her, and about the sangha as a whole (which has a number of people who've known each other a long time, a cozy kind of insider energy) are something I can work with rather than struggle against. It's like the eighth grade, or even second grade, all over again.

Edited to excise identifying details

Sounds like you're doing exactly the right thing. It's true that noting can be a bit of a sledgehammer at this stage, and you are right to trust your capacity for bare attention, as well as your instinct to know when you've just been tuning out- at those times, you can use noting tactically, just long enough to tune back in.

True attention is such a counter-intuitive thing (at least in the way we are conditioned and socialized), that we get good at it, long before we even know, or allow ourselves to believe, that we are good at it.

So at this point, trust your hunches more than you trust any single formal teaching or method. If your hunch says "take it easy, ease up on the high-pressure techniques", follow that voice, and not the one that says "But that's not the method!! Mustn't get it wrong!!". You don't sound like the kind of person who is in danger of being too easy on themselves

"You don't sound like the kind of person who is in danger of being too easy on themselves "--now how did you know that?!

Late afternoon: 30 mins. Began with counting the breath, got 1st Jhana before I was even through the first cycle of 10. Began noting, continued to experience bliss waves for most of the sit; continued noting, expecting the pattern of dreaminess/vibrations (noted the expectation) but it didn't show up until late into the session; when it came it felt just as lovely as the bliss waves. Altogether heavenly.

Yesterday afternoon was so wonderful that I knew I'd want to repeat it, and of course couldn't do that. I had a lesson on chakras with my yoga teacher and am working on the root chakra, for grounding. In keeping with this plan, I did some walking meditation this morning after spending a few minutes getting centered on the cushion. Quite a lot of busyness in the brain while it was going on, no sense of absorption or anything, but I kept as focused as I could.

This evening did another half hour at the meditation center. More sleepiness this time, but it seemed fruitful. There were vibrations toward the end, some of them static electric feeling. I had a lot of internal narrative at the beginning as well, more than I've been having usually. It's that time of year: opening meetings are tomorrow and Friday, new students arrive Saturday, and so I've been in a state of transition, never a comfortable process for me. There was quite a lot of anxiety off cushion for me today. Feeling relaxed this evening, though. Got through a few irksome tasks that I'd been worrying about.

This morning, I decided to do seated meditation, then yoga practice, then walking meditation. In the past, I needed the yoga practice to get settled for the seated meditation, now I need the meditation to get settled for the yoga. I tend to give myself permission to space out and let narratives take me through the yoga; I didn't do that so much this morning. I reached a lovely state of calm, with vibrations in my arms, before starting the yoga practice.

I am at the point now where I can experience the sound of my ears ringing as vibrations instead of something solid; the same is true for itches, and some kinds of pains (the stabbing kind). But other kinds of pain I can't break down in that way. I was sitting on a cushion, which I don't ordinarily do, and my legs started to ache. I tried focusing on it for awhile, but the pain felt solid, like a block. I noted this.

Walking was a bit active, had trouble disembedding. Will work on this.

I'm having lots of trouble sleeping these days, probably due to overstimulation, and the fact that once again I'm trying to taper the Neurontin. I'm doing this by infinitesimal amounts, yet even so it's hard to get the brain to accept the lower amount.

Last night I was awake at around midnight, and felt good enough to meditate. I did 45 minutes, then turned off the timer and did another 45. I began with counting the breath, then noting, which I kept up for most of the first session. Had a lot of itches which built up to shaking, then pressure rising from the back of the head through the crown. This subsided and repeated, with new itches prior to the buildup and even remaining afterward. I had similar sessions about a month or more ago, but haven't had anything like this lately. I was noting a bit of confusion, which I didn't dwell on much. There were vibrations that set in eventually, beginning with the arms and then moving down to encompass the rest of the body. Sometimes they got a bit harsh and static-y. I was at peace through most of this. As time went on I began spacing out into dreaminess, more so towards the end. I finally began to suspect that I needed to go back to bed and sleep.

Off cushion for the most part I've been tranquil, except for some buzzing in the midsection that I relate to the medication withdrawal. It has not been pleasant. I seem better able to withstand unpleasantness and not personalize it than I used to be.

I feel like I'm in the dukkhas again. Yesterday was tough, felt unhappy and unsettled, or conversely overstimulated. This morning's meditation I was spinning in thinking during the initial breath-counting, reached the end of the third cycle and just started noting. My heartbeat felt metallic, like someone was pounding on an empty metal filing cabinet that was echoing in an empty room, but muffled as if underwater. My ear buzzing was high-pitched and very unpleasant. I felt sadness. I had two issues that I kept coming back to: one, thinking I should give up the violin/viola because of my arthritis, and two, ruminating on a painful situation at work involving a toxic colleague. Had a talk yesterday evening with someone about said colleague, feeling his unhappiness with the situation, feeling that my workplace is adversely affected by it, feeling sad.

Kept noting "thinking" in an effort not to become embedded. Numerous images flashing through the mind, recognition that I can't take refuge in even pleasant imagery, feeling sad. Finally my arms started vibrating, felt I was settling down, but the vibrations were harsh and prickly, especially in the hands. Noted that for awhile. Wanted to end the session, eventually did so about 3 minutes early.

Later today I'm sitting with a group from the meditation center, a new group that Colleen Godfrey and I have started, including discussion and feedback. Looking forward to it.

Well, I went to the first meeting of our "Dedicated Practitioners' Group" today, and talked with Colleen for awhile afterward. In some ways it mirrors the experience I had on retreat: people either had never heard of the maps we work with, or knew something about them and dismissed them completely.

The meeting began with a 45-minute sit. In my case, there was noise in the street outside which I noted, noted, and noted some more, but eventually things settled down and I once again encountered my recent pattern of dreamlike imagery alternating with vibrations, principally in the arms. The vibrations this time around were quite pleasant. There was some restlessness as time went on, but I didn't have any real trouble making it to the end of the time.

The discussion that followed left me once more feeling apologetic for my approach to practice (which is my problem--when I encounter resistance or disapproval from others, I tend to cave and feel like I'm being a "bad" girl). One person in particular had done extensive reading in the original suttas, and insisted that none of this has any basis in the original texts whatsoever, that Mahasi Sayadaw made the whole thing up out of some 5th century stuff, etc., etc. He seems to work in a Sri Lankan tradition, and when I asked him about his practice, it sounded like a form of tranquility. He believes that stream entry is a way-advanced thing that almost no one can ever get, that adhering to the 8-fold path is the way to go, and mindfulness means mindfulness of breath (although Goenka's name came up, whose practice I've not done, but I get the distinct impression that it leads to the progress of insight map if you follow it closely). He even seemed to think 1st Jhana is impossible for almost everyone, although what he described in his own practice certainly sounded like it.

(cont.) His dismissiveness, eloquently expressed with what sounded like a lot of expertise underlying it, set the tone for the group as a whole. People don't want to undertake anything that leads to greater suffering, even in the short term, and while I don't blame them for that, I felt a sense of grievance that I showed respect for others' practice, but didn't find that respect reciprocated. I did what I could to present my own opinion, but it was a losing battle, especially with my own self-doubt creeping into the situation.

I think what I'm going to do next time is simply say, this is my story, this is what I'm doing, I'm not out to convert anyone, but I respect your practice and I'm asking you to listen respectfully to mine. Only I don't think it's going to get me anywhere at all. I explained the four foundations of mindfulness, said both Daniel and Kenneth teach this but that it had also been taught at the IMS retreat I'd attended (although noting hadn't been when I was there), that Mahasi Sayadaw had gone to IMS himself in the 80s and made a big impression there, and that Jack Kornfield talks about the maps in A Path With Heart. I thought bringing up all these reference points would give at least some credibility to what I was describing, but no dice. This one guy even thought working with the maps was "dangerous." Others took a know-nothing approach, and of course I'm an academic, with way too much of a tendency towards geekiness as it is, and so I'm kind of looking foolish as a result.

I know what you're going to tell me: don't go back. It may come to that. But I'll just have to see how things go for awhile first. At least these people are practicing meditators and that's more than I get from the rest of the people I hang out with in the flesh.

Oh, and another thing: one of his heroes apparently is Ajahn Brahm. Could someone enlighten (haha) me about this guy? He apparently also is associated with the Thai Forest tradition, which seems to have been one of the main sources of inspiration for the retreat teacher who was so skeptical about the maps last summer. I just plain want to understand what I'm dealing with.

Another thing: this guy seemed to think I should only limit myself to reading in the Pali Canon, and skip interpretations (which is probably why he has no use for the Vishuddimagga). But even the Pail Canon was redacted years after the Buddha died. It's kind of like Martin Luther wanting to return to scripture exclusively, and burn (which he in fact did) the interpretations compiled over centuries of church history. And of course Christian scriptures were redacted centuries (or in the case of the New Testament, decades) after the fact. It's like a big game of telephone, really.

What I respect about pragmatic dharma is that people are willing to look at what works (even if it can cause contention, like AF--and I admit that has made me uncomfortable). Of course the know-nothing contingent, with which this fellow then proceeded to agree, started saying something like this as well: who cares what other people say, just practice. I was by then too exhausted to protest. I was also told to avoid the internet. Sigh.

I think, actually, that these people see me as a newfangled-type of interloper. I don't really know. I don't have a position of responsibility at the sangha and have only recently been going there much. That's one of the reasons I'm shy about arguing my case too vigorously, along with not wanting to get into a brawl.

Hi - I don't post much, but had a bit of an overlapping experience in that I have attended some sanghas around my area that are not the same as the way I practice. But I like meditating in a group and the social stuff. It's perhaps too late now, but is it required that you tell them all about your practice? Can you just go and meditate with them, take what little from the teachings might be useful, ignore the rest, and chat about the weather? I don't think it's very productive to go to outside groups *if* you feel obligated to try to synchronize their beliefs and your own. I have gone to Theravada, Zen, Tibetan and other sanghas just for the tea and company, and I don't think I've ever told anyone how I practice beyond "yeah, I meditate by myself mostly, noting or just sitting, that kinda thing." I've even learned a few interesting tidbits from the talks or methods; what didn't make sense to me I just ignored or filed away for later. I think it's really hard to do multiple tradition practice if you feel like you must somehow bring it all together and make sense of it. There are hundreds of methods and approaches - what works best for you should be your priority, no? There's no need to convince them of anything, nor for them to appreciate your practice, really, is there? Good luck! Curious how you will work it out.

Laurel,
You've definitely got guts, I'll give you that! Honestly, I don't think I'd discuss how I practice with most people, so my hat's off to you for having the courage to do so, especially with other meditaters.
Like anything else though practice, religion, beliefs can become attachments that our sense of self can use to further stabilize. Even though the point of Buddha Dharma is to lessen and eventually eliminate these attachments, and thus suffering, it is very difficult. People take these things personally and can feel attacked.
"I know what you're going to tell me: don't go back" I was thinking the opposite, if you're comfortable enough. I'm finding that situations in which I'm uncomfortable are often the best ones at pointing out what I'm still really clinging to. The people attacking you seem to be clinging to their beliefs and need them to be "right" to be comfortable. Let them be right, heck maybe they really are right, who knows? You have nothing to lose except the feeling that "you" know best. Try to use it as a pointer to your own weak spots and feel thankful for it being pointed out to you. I had a teacher (Geshe Kalden) who used to always tell me that anyone that made me upset was my teacher, showing me a weakness in my practice.
And if you decide not to go back, no loss that way either. I know that's a tall order, and like I said I doubt I could do it. But, from the outside looking in, that's what I see.
All the best, Be Well.

I can empathize Laurel, it's nice to have like minds around you. Unfortunately, like minds are pretty rare within any single church/temple/group... Look at the different ideas of the folks you were talking to, you weren't the only one with a different view! The way I figure, you've done your job, you've talked about your practice and so have the others. Like G and R above, I don't see any problem with continuing to sit with them. (Frankly, they probably are curious to see how your practice goes... it's human nature to both reject something different and be fascinated with something different.) But I wouldn't feel the need to explain your practice methods either.

By the way... the one nugget of truth that map-haters are right about is: knowing the maps won't help any given meditation move faster. You can't "look" for the next nana and "go" there during a meditation. These things arise on their own. Maps help troubleshooting afterwards, off the cushion after having a recurring problem for several sits, that's about it.

It's nice to be around people, especially during the sticky and icky parts of the cycle. I really long for it at times myself. If there is a way to sit with others and still keep practicing, I don't see anything wrong with it. You might have to bite your tongue until they are used to the new fangled interloper, but, heck, I have to bite my tongue around my family and they've known me a long time!

Hope this adds something to the great advice above!

Everyone, this is great. I should have expected such a reaction, but was blindsided. The truth is, as Rev pointed out, there are attachments of my own at work that are causing me to get all evangelical about this practice. I continue to want to know who or what teaching is "right," and as Ona says, there are multiple paths, with some paths appealing to some people and some appealing to others. The AF approach appeals to a lot of people but not me. The guy that annoyed me so much took the "my way or the highway" approach, but there are a lot of people who do that, myself included sometimes.

There is one thing that has bothered me though, and that's a fellow who described an experience he'd had 13 years ago, and it's very clear to me that he crossed the A&P, which of course means he's been dealing with Dark Night stuff ever since unless somehow he's managed to get through it without special instruction. People who've not dealt with the A&P are often jealous of those who've had the experience, and those who've had it may be protective of it and not appreciate someone saying, "that's just the A&P." So the resistance to the maps can lead to real suffering.

As far as I'm concerned: I felt frustrated, but not upset. Awhile ago I'd have been upset. I have to admit, Rev, that underneath it all I do feel that "I" know best! I will simply observe this belief in action as I continue to interact with this group, and hope that I will benefit from being knocked around a bit.

Decided to work on samatha last evening, spent about 45 minutes doing anapanasati, and while I settled into what I thought was first jhana, it wasn't particularly stable. I also noticed path-type stuff coming up, such as persistent, shimmering itches on the face and stabbing pains, which I tried to overlook as I focused on the breath at the nostrils. Some vibrations in the arms and hands, a sense of falling into deeper levels of concentration, and some bliss waves. On the whole it was pleasant but, as I said, not stable.

I have a lesson with Kenneth today, and will try to figure some of this stuff out.

I had a lesson with Kenneth yesterday, and am moving into bare attention practice, letting things present themselves. Last evening, 30 minute meditation at the center, pleasant, relaxed awareness. This morning yoga, then counting breaths on the cushion, settling, then about 30 minutes walking meditation, using the soles of my feet as an anchor. Kenneth gave me a technique to use when dealing with thoughts: just to turn my attention to them and say, "I'm listening," pretending I'm a cat watching a mousehole. Strangely enough, not many thoughts come up when I do that. I did that periodically through walking meditation. When a thought did come up, I'd think, that was interesting, that was a good one. Was dealing with some fibromyalgia pain in my hip and in my collarbone area.

"One person in particular had done extensive reading in the original suttas, and insisted that none of this has any basis in the original texts whatsoever, that Mahasi Sayadaw made the whole thing up out of some 5th century stuff, etc., etc. He seems to work in a Sri Lankan tradition, and when I asked him about his practice, it sounded like a form of tranquility. "

Hi Laurel.
Have you listened to Richard Shankman's interviews on the Buddhist Geeks podcast? He explains some of these perspectives very well. The Mahasi Sayadaw lineage follows what is described as "the path of insight"--we're all considered "dry insight workers," pedestrian as that sounds--out of the Visuddhimagga. As Shankman explains it, Visuddhimagga-based lineages tend to regard the suttas as inexplicable unless viewed through the lens of the commentaries, while sutta-based lineages tend to dismiss perspectives based on the commentaries. Sounds like your friend takes a sutta-based approach vis-a-vis the Thai forest tradition, but somewhere along the way ended up reading Sri Lankan, hard jhana stuff from the Path of Tranquility out of the Visuddhimagga, or maybe Pa Auk stuff.
As Shankman says, neither "side" is right or wrong. These are just different perspectives using different maps and frameworks. If you ask me, the Thai forest tradition tends to work through the contemplative, reflective, psychological lens, while the Mahasi tradition takes a very sharp, phenomenological approach. These two perspectives can complement each other very well. Isn't Jack Kornfield living proof of this? It's too bad this guy chooses to be an a&*hole about this stuff. Don't blame yourself here!

Thanks, Joel. I just ordered his book on samadhi from Amazon. I don't mind controversy; what I mind is not knowing what's going on.

"Thanks, Joel. I just ordered his book on samadhi from Amazon. I don't mind controversy; what I mind is not knowing what's going on. "

It's an interesting book--in particular, the interviews in the back where he asks all these different teachers to describe their views on jhana.
Anyway, not being entirely sure of what's going on seems preferable to an approach where people say "I've got it all nailed down because I'm an expert who has read widely in the suttas."

Hi Laurel,

Just watched this and thought of your new instructions!........I thought you might like it, its short!


By the way, I listened to a lot Ajahn Brahm over the years and think he is a great teacher, just because he has a great sense of humour and really radiates joy in the way he gives dharma talks. However your friend sounds like a few I have met on the path.......my sister heard a teaching which says that the person who is wrong in an argument is the one who is taking it most seriously.

Ed,
"the person who is wrong in an argument is the one who is taking it most seriously."
Thank you, and thank your sister, and thank whoever your sister heard it from! Pure gold!
Laurel,
Your practice sounds great, keep it up!

Thanks so much, you guys. The good news is that our passionate friend seems to be backing down and admitting that he crossed a line. I'm going to try to have a talk with him, sound him out. As for Ajahn Brahm, I do have a soft spot for him b/c he ordained all those women, at great personal cost.

I've learned one thing from this encounter, and that is that we can sound scary to a certain kind of Buddhist. It's really too bad. That's one of the reasons I'd like to sound this guy out--I want to find out exactly, in his own words, what he's afraid of.

By the way, I got stuck waiting for someone at a coffee shop this afternoon, and began to focus on sensations. I felt everything start into subtle vibrations, even my teeth. Strange, but rather nice.

I've continued practice over the past couple of days. Mornings I do yoga, then sit for about 15 minutes focusing on the breath, then do about half an hour of walking meditation. I've done this about three times now. This morning in particular I had trouble with too much content intruding, more so when I'm walking than when I'm sitting. I need more practice with it.

Sittings have been a mixed bag. I've continued to sit with the meditation center for 30 minutes in the late afternoon. Yesterday I felt restlessness, but also calm vibrations. The main feature, however, was a return of the itches on the face, one of which I broke down and scratched. They shimmer and burn.

I sat another 35 minutes last night. It was a tough one, alternating spacing out and some itches. In some ways I feel as if I've been thrown back to where I was a couple of months ago. There was also some restlessness. I checked the timer and was amazed that I had as much time left as I did, almost bailed but then told myself I need to keep going when a sit becomes difficult. The vibrations had become prickly, harsh, and very uncomfortable as well.

During the day I'm much more focused than usual. I am not drifting and wasting time. Part of this may have to do with the beginning of classes, but it feels qualitatively different from previous years.