Meekan's meek journal

Well, the name's just a pun...
Hiya, folks!
Plenty of journals around an here I come with my own style hoping that eventually it will give someone zomething of use, instead of just reaping personal gain in form of journal writing and maybe comments from you lot!
I've been meditating for quite many years now, on and off for years at a time, but have been at it with almost a daily sitting for 4-5 years something.
Zazen style before, some pema chödrön in the mix, and a couple months ago I stumbled into mahasi style noting.
I found this site and a great teacher, Kenneth, who encouraged me to write this journal, so off we go!
Thanks a lot to Kenneth and anyone else who takes the time to read it.

Welcome Meekan.

Neat to have another experienced meditator. I think you'll find you've come to the right place.

Very excited to read what you post.

30 minute sit. Tired...
Started out with counting the outbreath at a point just beneath the nostrils. 3*10
Mind didn't wander that much.
Then a short runthrough of 4f:s.
Pressure, pressure, itch, cool...
Neutral, neutral, unpleasant...
Calm, calm, worry, calm, anxious...
Coaching thought, describing thought, coaching thought, dialoguing thought...
(examples)
Before I used to do them this wayi for a longer while, but inspired by having looked at other journals, today I switched into mixing mode,
I.e. Pressure, neutral, itch, unpleasant, calm, pressure, neutral, tension, unpleasant, itch, neutral, calm.
During this at a time I felt as if my eyebrows were striving upwards, and not finding a word I just noted "lifting".
Then I switched to bystander.
See how it sits, see how it feels an itch, see how it feels calm, see how it sits, see how it has wishiing thoughts...
After about half-time I switched to more regular mahasi-style.
And here I started having fun...
Rising, falling, sitting, thinking...
After a while of this, what I refer to as monster itches came. I normally experience them in different parts of the face.
These are very intense, and often I get them on opposing sides of the face.
Itching, tension, urge, smiling, thinking, urge, itching.
I remember in MTCTB it says one can't feel two places simultaneously, but here sometimes the illusion is soooo real.
But... During this sit while noting itching, and my muscles tensing up, and the urge to scratch and run away I noticed for instance that left side itch was static, right side was like a worm wiggling about, and for a while all the intense itches where either wiggling, pulsing or just feeling like a dissolving, fizzing powder (make sense?).
Fascinated I missed noting "fascinated" or "amazed". I just went on with itching, urge and itching contd.

Contd.
Seldom returning to rising/falling.
Also at a time myi mind wandered away and I almost just got up. But came back, wandering.

So... Lengthy first post, not intending to do this in the future
(trying to find my format)

"Welcome Meekan.

Neat to have another experienced meditator. I think you'll find you've come to the right place.

Very excited to read what you post."

Thanks for your welcome!
I really don't see myself as "experienced", but I have done it for a while.
Regarding maps and such, I don't really know if I'm past the foreword yet

Meekan, Nadav is also running into the itches at this point and Kenneth has been posting some good hints in his journal. Have you checked it out?

"Meekan, Nadav is also running into the itches at this point and Kenneth has been posting some good hints in his journal. Have you checked it out?"

Thanks!
Will do!

Thanks! Now I managed to find plenty of references to the "kiss of concentration".
Funny is I have had these monster itches quite regularly before going on a one week retreat (6 weeks ago) and during the retreat there were practically none!
After retreat and they're back!

20 minutes of sweating and noting.
Started off with 3*10 wich was good, since I was rushed.
ran through the 4 Fs, each at a time, for a minute each.
Bystander, see how it sits, see how it feels an itch, unpleasant, see how it is rushed, see how it feels moisture neutral, see how it sits...

Then I switched to M-style noting:
rising, falling, sitting...
after a while one of the itches got fairly intense, followed it, itching, itching, after a while it faded in intensity
got a pain in my leg that pulsated, followed it, it had a fairly steady beat, and after a while it went away
during all this, rushed, itching, thinking (lots of thinking that was planning thinking about writing here, really).

Still rushed after bell rang.

Wow, you got a pulse from a pain that then vanished. That's the way man!

The planning thinking gets much better after you've done a few posts and you know you'll remember things after the sitting. Try making a resolution to remember your sitting and then just let it go.

Awesome!

50 minute sit.
Decided to try something new (don't like this hopping around, but but).
First did the 4 foundations aloud (had the chance to try).
Spent some time with each, lots of thoughts of whether I got it right, but no noting of these except for in the "thought-section".
Pretty unvaried noting.
itching,itching,pressure,pain,pain...
Unpleasant, neutral, unpleasant, unpleasant, unpleasant, unpleasant...
Calm, annoyed, sad, annoyed, calm, annoyed, annoyed...
Imaging thought, imaging thought, dialoguing thought, annoyed thought (don't know if these aren't dialoguing?)...
Bystander for a while...
Then a little general noting, but I reminded myself that I wanted to try becoming an expert of one sensation.
So I stuck with itching, itching, itching...
And I dropped noting aloud.
I stuck with an itch for a very long time until it subsided.
A pain in my back I probably stuck with for 20 minutes, with it maybe changing just a little. I am unsure whether it actually disappeared or I just got bored.
During all this, I had lots of thoughts about whether I am dense, not getting the instructions, or whether the abstract instructions are just stupid, lots of anger and sadness. But! Having decided on sticking with an object I did not note any of them, but just returned to the itch or pain (normally I would have changed to an object if it was more intense or returned to breath)
Feeling pretty low and exhausted after session was up.
Summary, loooooong noting of itches and pain, with pain possibly static throughout.

30 min sit. 3*10 breath count
Aloud, but whispering
4 fs one at a time, bystander - focused noting
Then, general noting "sotto voce"
rising, falling, sitting, rising, pressure, neutral, thinking, rising...
I got a pain right below my right sitting bone, investigation time!
Noting "pain, pain,pain, pain,pain, pain,pain, pain, (ad infitum) pain..."
I must have hung with this pain for 15-20 minutes, during which I noticed I perceived it at two different places, and it sometimes lost force, but everytime my mind thought "it's going", guess what...
Also during this time itches, frustration, thinking, focus on the speaking (noting aloud) came and took over, but I steadily returned.
Then suddenly, almost didn't notice, it was gone.
Confused as to what to note, so quickly "rising, falling".
there came itches, "itching, itching... (for minutes, then:) gone, gone (staying at the place the itch was for a while). Then "rising, falling" till next sensation...
Tough session, felt longer than my hour-long sits.

Sounds good!

Remember all of these techniques go in your yogi toolbox and you can use any combination of them depending on the situation. Good stuff!

30 minute sit, 3*10 breath count
aloud noting, first 4 Fs
then "rising, falling, sitting, pressure, neutral tension, unpleasant, pressure, unpleasant, frustrated..."
after a pretty short while, and after "intending, stretching, stretch, unpleasant", there came a pretty sharp pain in the back
stayed with it for a loooong time "pain, unpleasant" * 100 (?)
during which it was fairly static much of the time, but sometimes waned and then waxed.
a couple of times I couldn't feel that specific pain and noted "gone", staying at that spot.
But it returne many times.
Meanwhile lots of thoughts (one was some kind of analogy between noting aloud and having to wear a funny hat... don't know really... and smaller itches, and other pains (sometimes greater) competed for attention, but I returned to this pain, and this spot.
Then after a while I decided it was gone. Lost for what to note "rising, falling"
There were some itches that disappeared quite fast.
Suddenly! Monster itch (kiss of concentration?).
stayed with it for a long time. sometimes it lessened in force, and sometimes, even though there was a feel like a constant "underitch", there was like a topnote that sometimes went away, and sometimes came back with lots of force.
At one time another itch was much stronger on other side of face, but I returned to this one.
It went away finally, and some smaller monster itches appeared, but disappeared quite fast after a little variation in strength.

It was another endurance sit, not in terms of excrutiating sensations, just time was moving sooooooooooo sloooooow.

10 minute sit
noting aloud, "rising falling, sitting, pressure, neutral, pressure unpleasant, rising, calm, itching, unpleasant" After a while noting of tone fell away and just noted "itching"
itching went on for quite some time, varied somewhat in strength, then passed, "gone, gone, gone" staying at the same point for a while when deciding it is gone.
"rising, falling, itching..." several times, but sensations passing after taking their time

technique notes
as yesterday, when focusing on the itch, the words became a mantra sometimes without reflection (was there really an itch I noted, or was I just speaking as I followed the itch) and at other times I was just focused on noting aloud, thus forgetting to be with the actual itch.

so when do I decide if this is working for me?

Meekan, you may be making it harder than it needs to be. We are not noting in order to get to any particular state or phenomenon. We are just noting to note. If you noted, you did it right. If you note continuously and accurately, aloud, you will not suffer during that time, even if many unpleasant things happen. The noting keeps the mind occupied and there is no processing power left for suffering. If you start suffering, that is a reminder to be more careful and continuous with your noting.

Try letting go of "rising, falling" for now and just do the pure noting. This will move you away from the idea that you should be concentrated. Who said you should be concentrated? You don't have to be concentrated. It isn't about that. Just note whatever comes up at the rate of about one note per second. If you aren't finding anything to note, note dullness, or spaceyness, or frustration, or doubt, or investigation. All you have to do is note. There is no second step. The noting is the thing that will set you free.

Thanks, cool!
Regarding my last sentence (now in retrospect I see it sounded a little different than I intended, with a sound of desperation I'll wait with evaluating the process for now...

Regarding the noting, I tried noting at times on in- and outbreath, but this felt a little weird.
If I only note on outbreath, since I breathe fairly slowly, I just note once every 3-4 seconds (just timed it .
Is this too seldom?

Meekan, forget about the breath. Try noting with no primary object. Just note whatever takes center stage. Make it easy. Don't try to get concentrated and don't try to follow the breath. Just note.

Follow the instructions on the home page, rather than the basic meditation instructions page. Forget about the breath. It is confusing you and causing you unnecessary stress. Just note.

edit: typo

Aha!
I guess I was confused that you somewhere mentioned noting once or so every second.
Thus pace isn't that important but no need to try to speed (a la MCTB) it up too much?

Thank you very much!
Dropping lots of "rules" and misconceptions I had about how to note here

Short on time.
15 min.
Noting aloud.
"itching, unpleasant..."repeated for a couple of minutes, experiencing at times as a mantra not necessarily reflecting what is going on.
Itch faded, but there was like a remnant of itch there for much of the time.
But itch prickling and bubbling over that constant "underitch".
Did 4 fs aloud.
Much "monster itching". One very persistent. Moved at a time (or was it a new one like a fifth of an inch.
Thus fs were much "itching" and then "unpleasant" and "annoyed, frustrated" (wih itch), dialoguing and soothing thoughts.

Itching galore!
30 minutes, noting aloud.
First 4Fs in sequence. Almost immediately got stuck on "itching, itching, itching..." for a long time, followed by (still the same itch) "unpleasant, unpleasant, unpleasant for about the same time.
Not much variation there. Mind states were "sleepy, calm, agitated, frustrated..." and others. Thoughts "imaging thought, soothing thought, anxious thought..."
After that I mixed it up, but there were many "monster itches" (kisses of concentration). Aspired to stay with them, and initially I noted "unpleasant" (most) and some "neutral".
However, at times I wandered way off, and forgot about noting altogether (tired and sleepy) I didn't note this as I was aspiring to stay and note only that itch.
Also, as I stayed with a monster itch, sometimes a competing one came full force, noticed, but only noted the first one.
Some of these itches were reeeeeeally tough today.
At one time I almost stood up because of the intensity.
And several of them gave me goose bumps and shivers through out my body (literally!).

31 minutes aloud noting.
First 4 Fs
Itching comes.
And a little bystander.
Itching gets quite intense, and try to stay with one itch, even though mind pulled away by other itches. At times I give up and start noting aloud about next itch.

Notes: monster itches normally tend to be around the face, but now all over the place.
Began near right nostril, another one appeared in left ear, followed by right shoulder and left knee. Analytic mind sometimes thinks, "hah! Really out to distract me now!"
Noting tone sometimes just feels like mantra "itching unpleasant, itching unpleasant"...
Not experiencing unpleasantness, but analytically thinking, "I want to get rid of it, so it's unpleasant"
Slowed down noting of tone after physical sensation, and got more in touch with it.
Itching varying in intensity, often leaving residual itch, moving about, not much new.
Also, I tend to note predominantly negative stuff. The pleasant stuff don't get much of a say. I don't experience this in life outside of formal sits..?

Dukkha! (one of the three characteristics)

"Dukkha! (one of the three characteristics)

"


Ahh, in life I'm skilled at avoiding it, whereas sitting I just see suffering?
If I do some walking in the woods I tend to see lot of pleasant

1 hour sit. 3*10 breath count
Noting aloud.
4Fs in sequence.
99% of tone was "unpleasant" but when switched to mind states, I noted mostly
"pleasant" or "positive" states (calm, joy)'
Did bystander for a while.
Then pure noting.
Had a lot of itches, and noted occasionally from the other Fs, but returned to the itch I began with. Sometimes during inspecting an itch another one would come and almost mute the other one out (usually feels like residual pressure in that spot), and I would aspire to stay with the original spot, after a while just deciding to switch to the new strong itch.
I have a similar question to Navid: "As the itch I'm following becomes very subtle, stronger itches will start to pop up. Should I continue to follow the subtle one until it ends or switch to a juicier one that seems easier to follow?".
I.e. Stay with the residue of the first itch or do as I did and eventually switch?
One of the tough itches was really lika small worm wiggling about. Levt occasionally and reappeared.