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turtle log

  • kacchapa
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72647 by kacchapa
Replied by kacchapa on topic RE: turtle log
Sun afternoon 1hr 15 mins
Just had another sit that's helping me heal my long aversion
to drowsiness. Lately when drowsiness wafts in I try to note it
out loud and see if I can be conscious of any of it. The most
interesting thing has been finding out how wholesomely grounded
in the body drowsiness can feel when I have some awareness of
it while it's happening.

So, today when it started wafting in I wasn't really that tired, and
each time it would catch me unawares I'd just say, can I see the
next one coming? And note as much as possible. I noticed that I'd
get flumuxed about what noting words to use and stop noting as
often right before drowsiness made me unconscious. So tried to
be aware of that happening and make an extra effort to keep
continuously noting.

Eventually I was really interested to see that a big mental image
of white space would fill up all of my attention unconciously and
remove me from touch with body sensations just as drowsiness took
over. So when I started catching that happen, tried real hard to
find and note any body sensations. The amazing thing was that
when "drowsiness" drifted in, and I noted through the spacey
image, then, at least for this sit, I became aware of how drowsiness
really settles with great relaxation into the body. And doesn't
necessarily have a making me unconscious agenda.

I felt so grounded in the body it was beautiful. Each time I get
together with my new acquintance we do something different and it's
not always a super time, but it has the feel of a friendship at this
point.
  • kacchapa
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72648 by kacchapa
Replied by kacchapa on topic RE: turtle log
Mon & Tues: 1/2 hr each day. Not memorable. Working most
waking hours on one of my 2 or 3 most consequential work
projects ever. Tends to freak me out and completely
take over my mind especially when I sit so little.

Wed 1.5 hrs
So hungry for sitting after what felt like 2 days off. Started
with fast, out load noting of body sensations only. That's
my practice right now. Tried to keep up the speed and follow
predominant wherever it might present. The somewhat intense
pressure between and about a finger above my eyes started,
(as usual for the past year+). Not exactly a pressure, as in
pushing out, but more of a gathering up and drawing in.

That followed as usual by hara spot, size between a walnut
and lemon, at about the belt line. It's similar to the forehead
thing except so intensely pleasurble these days it's almost
like a sexual sensation, except more continuous. The side to
side body rocking was extra pronounced, like responding to
the drive I had to not lose the fast noting. The involuntary
fast neck rotating that nicely loosens up started kind of
early, and then the much newer involuntary rotating at the
waste that loosens up my hips. All this is relaxing and
grounding and old hat.
  • kacchapa
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72649 by kacchapa
Replied by kacchapa on topic RE: turtle log
A fan was blowing on me and rather than thinking of it as
wind, it felt like discrete sensations like someone was
toucing me rapidly all over with a couple of feathers tips.
Sensations got more granular.

What was new was that learned very recently to catch a very
early sign of drowsiness, where the noting starts to slow
just a bit and an image starts to extend into an animation
and the energy feels sort of like a cloud blew in. As soon
as I get the 1st whiff of that started noting out loud like
crazy and this was remarkably effective. Only once did I
lose it for a couple of seconds. Another time I noticed I
had just noted out load "totally unique clouds", which
snapped me back.

Checked the clock to see if it had been an hour yet and was
amazed to find it was an hour and 25 mins. I had been normally
awake and not in any special state. Couldn't see how that
happened. Body, although sitting crosslegged all that time,
felt relaxed and fine, ready to keep on going. This happens
every now and then where I'm kind of frustrated that with
such a long sitting that felt like a neat state was on the verge
happening, but nothing happened. Been there, done that too.
So just got up.
  • kacchapa
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72650 by kacchapa
Replied by kacchapa on topic RE: turtle log
Thurs am 1hr Attempted fast noting. Felt kind of spacey and hard
to get a solid fix on objects of sensation.

Thurs pm two 1/2 hours. The 1st, fast noting of physical sensations,
which opened up to a greater level of detail and speed than usual.
Didn't seem like there was a "pressure" in my leg,but instead maybe
more like a topo map, or maybe weather radar with varying degrees
of intensity and texture in motion. Tried just noting "that" to
keep up with the speed, but noticed that started to make my vague.
So kept with a specific word for the general sensation but seeing
it in more detail.

I was surprised when this followed me off the cushion and into
a bite to eat in the yard near dusk. So went with it, and thought
I've really got to learn to do fast noting while doing busy stuff
when not sitting.
  • kacchapa
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72651 by kacchapa
Replied by kacchapa on topic RE: turtle log
Friday pm 1hr.

Owen challenged me with an exercise demonstrating how
the self stories I'm most attached to cause the most suffering. And
freedom requires painful work of dying to those stories. Sounds
reasonable but the story he nailed is the one that seems most
catastrophic to release. I couldn't even directly remember what we
methodically stepped through with it. For a couple of days I was
overtaken with a storm of desparate stories about a potential
work crisis. Extra sitting brought relief, but I reflected that
sitting for me strikes a balance between being tortured by self
stories running amok, and the terror of not being there for them.

Vipassana has shown the amazing fact that 90% of my mental noise
is imaginary scenarios where I'm expaining, excusing, covering
over or defending poor performance. And some of trying to
manipulate the situation so I'll be accepted and included. Extra
sitting, like a one day retreat, can chill this into a sweet,
temporary state of quiet, very temporarily.

Today's sitting and awhile afterward I somehow knew how to pay
the toll booth and keep letting the story go, it would come
right back and there was an intense desparate urge to pick it
up, but somehow there was not grabbing on. There was quiet,
evidently by default. Today's state, don't know what it means.
  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72652 by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: turtle log
Wow. This is wonderful, Kacchapa.
  • kacchapa
  • Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #72653 by kacchapa
Replied by kacchapa on topic RE: turtle log
Thank you for the tollbooth, Kenneth. That's a really good one.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #72654 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
I've been fortunate to work with Owen for the last couple of months with Kenneth's blessing.
While Owen is on sabbatical I'm keeping track of my practice (and instructions) on this log again.

My current practice instructions are:
- 1st half of a sit candle kasina, 2nd half noting
- When stable enough after some noting, do awareness of the body and notice where the
body registers thoughts (grounding thoughts and reactions in the body).
- Evidently I've been getting to 3rd jhana sometimes. (For awhile I've been pretty sure
about 2nd but surprised about 3rd.) I'm to notice & get familiar with transitions.
- Then learn to advert(?) the mind directly to any of these jhanas upon intention.
And do the same with vipassana jhanas.
- Apparently I occassionally get to some equanimity but it's hit or miss. Become more
familiar with and stabalize that.
- Note klesha urges without expressing them
- Maintain noting/awareness from waking to falling asleep (!) Kenneth gave a pointer for this:

"Let your dana be this: 'I give my attention to this moment.' I am doing this now as I feel the
keys under my fingers. I give this dana to the universe."

Nice! I'm keeping that by my computer at work.

I've had ups and downs keeping a steady practice while balancing work, home and health
challenges. I think I have to navigate those circumstance swings more consistently to
succeed with the instructions. That's my current resolve.

Edit: Forgot one, (paraphrasing from memory) investigate honestly motives and any thoughts where
I think I can't be aware or deciding that I have to become embedded in something now, such as work.
Make awareness the 1st commitment.
  • mumuwu
  • Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #72655 by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: turtle log
I was driving yesterday and thought "I haven't heard from Kacchapa in a while, I wonder how he's doing."

Glad to read your update and to hear you are doing well.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 months ago #72656 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Thanks, mumuwu.

I've frequently had discouragement the last few months. High incidence of autism, schizophrenia and neurological problems in the family line, including my generation and subsequent. I struggle with this stuff and so do my adult children. We all share a small house with no extra private space for sitting. Seems like I've been stuck in chronic dark night since teen age A&Ps.

I went to a bunch of retreats once but failed to get escape velocity. Then I dedicated a lot of study, training and practice to trying to be normal, but I'm not. So my family is stuck with this guy who has an unsatisfactory foot in practice and the other in householding. Each feels shorted by the investments of the other. Reviewing my practice journals of the last couple of years it's a cycle between building up momentum and then being set back by circumstances. I can't just stop practicing because I feel like I'll have a nervous breakdown and go to hell.

It totally looks like this from my dark night perspective. Discouragement has been overwhelming my practice coping habits lately and some little moments of alternate perspectives pop up. Like a surrender sitting that I could bring back the flavor of a little bit for awhile. Being surprised by the effect of extending metta to myself. And one time I was startled, actually felt kind of threatened, when I recognized evidence that the suffering structure described above could be of my own making. But I can't remember what that was about.

So, I've got the perennial stick and just got a hopeful carrot. I might get to do a week retreat next month after more than 2 years since previous chance. Last time I got a pretty good A&P and probably some equanimity. Lately I'm trying to ramp up so I can hit the ground running at the retreat.
  • jgroove
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 months ago #72657 by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: turtle log
"my family is stuck with this guy who has an unsatisfactory foot in practice and the other in householding. Each feels shorted by the investments of the other. "

Dude, I can really relate to this. Weeds growing in the yard while I sit in a little room upstairs; friends of mine going on long retreats while I'm taking the kids to Cub Scouts den meetings and baseball games. I believe you can be present anywhere and under any circumstances, but the householder deal clearly is challenging in some important ways, especially if nobody else in your family is into this stuff.

It's good to see your post. Best of luck with the challenges you're facing and with your retreat.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 months ago #72658 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Thanks, jg. I've often thought I can relate to your practice journal too, and be inspired by how you handle responsibility for multiple generations in your house while building an increasingly strong practice. I know you've been working hard at noting. Do you do any metta? I've been trying to feel into how to do that.

Yeah that must be tough to have weeds growing, if other family members can't relate to your priorities! Fortunately my family kind of likes weeds :D Turns out, if you give them a chance, some of them are wild flowers. (Not trying to be poetic here.)
  • jgroove
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 months ago #72659 by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: turtle log
I probably don't do enough metta practice. I'd say I rarely do it at all. And yet I've been told I'm extremely hard on myself. Kind of a red flag, huh? As for the weeds, there's no reason why I can't go out there and mindfully pull 'em. Seems like some excuse-making is going on here! :-D
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72660 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
1 hr. Noting pulsing, pressure, unpleasant, tingling, neutral, throbbing, unpleasant, image, unpleasant, aversion, tension, tightness, contraction, unpleasant, fear, claustrophobia, determination, pleasant, memories, image, seeing, resolve, pleasant, memory, noting doubt, pain, story telling, energy, eagerness, spreading, pleasant, concentration, pleasant, stillness, quiet, feeling alone, fear, relaxing, encouragement, doubt, pressure, resolve, energy, worry, judging, drowsiness, itching, pain, throbbing, worry, image, image, pressure, tension, pain, exuberance, unpleasant, judging, memory, anticipation, judging, focusing, tingling, pleasant, embarrasment, self image, hyper, manic, unpleasant, energy, pleasant, coolness, arrogance, self image, discouragment, uncertainty, wakefulness, self image, restlessness, aversion, nausea, resistance, doubt.
  • cmarti
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72661 by cmarti
Replied by cmarti on topic RE: turtle log

Nice to see you back!

  • jgroove
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72662 by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: turtle log
"
Nice to see you back!

"

Word!
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72663 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Thanks!!

1 hr. Noted pushing pressure in and around the head. (Forgot to note feeling tone.) Noted tight jaw, self images, tension at the temples. Pleasant energy in the trunk and head, itches, pressure, pain, stiffness, pleasant soft energy, windy feeling in the voice box, unpleasant, wandering with thoughts, noted thinking, self image, image, seeing, pressure, self image, quiet, caught the effort to try not to manipulate, watched for and noted some trying, wanting, intention to not want, head pressure, tight jaw, pressure in feet, cramp, noted wanting to change posture, self image, pleasant energies, judging, catching past thoughts after they happened, watching for thoughts, noting past thoughts, future thoughts, intentions, lost in thoughts, relaxing, itches, aversion to mental images, watching whole body for a few seconds at a time between thoughts. Self images.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72664 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
1 hr. Tried starting right off with noting to avoid getting carried off in thought trains, but still had 2 or 3 brief train rides. Tried noting with my left eye partly open as recommended to me by a Chi Gung teacher recently. Sitting in front of a white curtain with brilliant morning sun behind it felt like my trunk was filled with a continuous pleasant relaxtion. Rather than try to deconstruct that apart with detailed noting I tried relaxing into noting the overall pleasantness in the body. Noticed the usually bodily tensions but they felt softly background, so noted almost everything as relaxing, releasing into pleasantness. Noticed sensations and labled them releasing. A smile came easily so gave it a little encouragement to continue. This is not real familiar territory. Enjoyed pleasurable relaxation and releasing trying to enjoy gentle non-hyper noting with some sense of humor. Kept an eye out to note especially super-ego thoughts and noticed some habitual urges to note agressively that caused conflict tightning to start in the body. Released that and tried to feel into some balance between noticing and staying relaxed. Eventually it felt a little forced so tried to keep a smile and turned attention mostly to catch critical and worrying thoughts by labeling "super ego" as recommended by my therapist. This heightened the feeling of pleasure again that felt kind of boldly happy in the face of all the things I could have started worrying aobut. Thought about how to journal this and noticed stories stirring up that supposedly explained it. Noticed that the stories caused a kind of tension in the pleasantness and kept an eye out to note and relax around story telling as well as super ego. This seemed really relaxing and pleasant. Surprised that an hour had gone by. As I write this I note some anxiety that this won't happen again. Smiling and relaxing.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72665 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
65 mins. Noted pulsing in thumb and fingers, body pulse that causes the trunk to rock side to side about 1 hz, got distracted by feeling like cushion arrangement on my chair was messing up my lower back, tried to note pain and tension, regarded posture as intolerable and tried several adjustments, attempting to note physical sensations and some unpleasant but stirred up about this unitl about 25 mins when I felt like I'd found a tolerable posture arrangement, noted settling down, found that background feeling tone was mostly neutral and not much physical tension, started noting tingling, pulsing, intensions, had some reluctance to note pleasant or unpleasant, felt like it would stir things up, noted some thoughts and intensions about the sitting, some planning thoughts. A little super ego criticism and anxiety stirred, but noted it early and relaxed. A soft, mildly pleasant energy went up my trunk which shook off some tension and straightened. Noted thoughts about maps. Noted disappointment and conflict when some tension and itches happened. Noted quiet, relaxation. Noticed and noted the start up of story telling and noticed how releasing the story telling felt settling in the body and relaxed. Had a fine, evenly dispersed tingling. Noticed that my noting was in a very settled pattern of 2 to 3 hz and thought I should pick it up, but this felt very forced. Tried it a couple of times but the noting rythm seemed kind of physical, so just accepted it. Noted soft sadness and compassion. Felt resistant to end of sitting and wanted to sit a lot longer. Settled back in and noted pulsing. At the end felt like bowing and heartfelt wish to share the benefit, as well as resolve.
  • jgroove
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72666 by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: turtle log
Awesome details. Thanks for the post!
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 2 weeks ago #72667 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Thanks Joel!

Tuesday. Last night 30 mins noting out loud. I can only remember that most of the time noting seemed focused on only one object at a time without seeing other objects in the background. And I think it was last night that there were a lot of bright itches over much of my body, especially around the sides and top of my head.

Last night 50 mins standing meditation while listening to music. Sometimes I like to try to stay grounded in the body enough to avoid getting carried away by the music,and not going with grasping surges toward exciting parts of the music. But last night there were short stretches where I was noting music and body sensations as they came up, noted a single drum beat then a thrill etc. Noted judging thought about unrestrained grooving on the music when I noticed that my mental and physical reactivity to the music were just note-able things happening.

This morning 1 hr noting. Best I can remember, for most of the sitting, sensations and feelings just seemed ordinary and not very unpleasant or pleasant. But noticed that I was kind of wavering on being able to note the sensations at a more detailed level and had thoughts and urges to push into finer detail. Then started trying to note those and, like last night, that sense of seeing them objectified toggled with identifying with them, and it was kind of touch and go seeing the trying or trying to see the trying.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 1 week ago #72668 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Wed a.m. 1 hr: what I can remember is trying to head off being lost in thought the 1st 10 mins by going right in to fast noting dominant sensation from any of 4 Fs. Noted intense pressure in lower middle of forehead. Almost painful. Feels like an inward contracting pressure that makes my eyes almost cross. I was surprised when Kenneth suggested once noting this as "concentration", but then noticed that position of my eyes was pointing at the tip of my nose, although I wasn't consciously aiming my eyes or concentrating outward because it feels like a pulling inward. Thought of this later that day when my acupuncturist (a long time meditator) said my forehead chakra was the only one that is "blocked" (the crown and down the trunk are "open" she said; didn't ask what she meant).

I remember feeling that there was some momentum for some comparatively quiet, stillness, and somewhat subtle sensations. Noted pleasant. But there was also a background agitation, unpleasant. Seemed like opposite experiences but they were oddly happening at the same time. When the quieting was prevalent, energy seemed to start to sink down. But when agitation grabbed the spotlight, it popped up uncomfortably.

Noted that awareness had strongly shifted to the left side. Eyes closed but as if I was glaring out my wide "open" left eye, with the right eye closed. Noticed that sensations from left side of the body were the ones I'd been noting. After waking up from a thought train, noticed it had shifted back to the right. (Usually the right side is dominant, even when not lost in thought.) Noted some pleasant surges that had an unpleasant edge. Wondered if these were migraine onset symptoms.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 1 week ago #72669 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Wed. cont:
I thought my noting had been kind of passive, not very focused or forced, and felt fairly relaxed. But right after the sitting had an increasingly manic and unpleasant hyper energy, kind of like rebound from an overly forced sitting. But a bit later did get a migraine.

Thursday a.m. 20 mins of noting. Worked until 10:30 the night before and pretty fried. My body seemed hungry for paying attention to it. Sensitive all over with strong, unpleasant sensations that seemed like a spunge for attention. Wished I could sit longer. That whole day mindfulness seemed impossible, completely lost in thought.

Friday a.m. 1 hr: Had low expectations after zero mindfulness and working 11 hour day yesterday. Started out load noting, pressure of cushion, pulsing, tingling, images, anxiety, releasing tension. Intense pressure in lower middle of forehead, like a pulling in from the inside. Noted cheek muscles pulling up, forehead forcefully scrinching together toward the point just above between my eyes. My eyes feeling like they're being sucked in.

Pain in left eye. Noted some soft feeling in the trunk. Invesitigating. Softly pleasant. Pleasant chill on lower inside of left leg above the foot. Noted images of upcoming encounters with several people and fleeting feeling of resistance and anxiety after each brief impression. Tried to note frequent story telling. Thinking that there had not been a posture disatisfaction phase in this sitting. Releasing feeling. Jaw and mouth start rapid flapping up and down so my lips which are relaxed smack against each other, mouth also stretching and releasing fast from side to side. Relaxing. Tenderness. Feeling like a grip on an image in my head is relaxing and my perspective is partially sinking into my throat. Noted a surrendering sadness, compassion. Surprised to note tears. Odd feeling like my body was doing this by itself and I was only finding out about it by watching.
  • mpavoreal
  • Topic Author
14 years 1 week ago #72670 by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: turtle log
Friday a.m. cont:
Head throws back and from my throat an anguished sadness and crying, but mostly feels like I'm not doing it, just watching. Effort to focus on and note anything particular felt like a stirring up.

Noted whole body. Prolific story telling. Slouched posture. Just watching, noting the feeling of needing to fix it, like there was space around that urge and could just note it. Noted non-combative. Noted some restlessness, urge to journal this, worry I'll forget. Noted kind of an internal image of myself in my head like there was a constricting that would bring me into it but partially relaxing made some distance from it and could start to relax perspective some into my neck and chest. Any constriction to control this, or a thought train, pulled the perspective back into my head. A little feeling of conflict stirred up about this, but the perspective of non-combatant noting didn't go completely away. Timer beeped. Did three prostrations. Reflected that it only takes a minute to suddenly see something different after days or weeks of being in the middle of miserable self-stories about unwanted circumstances. Feeling increased interest and resolve.
  • jgroove
  • Topic Author
14 years 1 week ago #72671 by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: turtle log
Courageous practice, Kacchapa. I recently listened to a talk by the wonderful Bhikkhu Analayo in which he described working with yogis going through the dukkha nyanas. He said "I tell them to bring metta to themselves." He really emphasized the word metta and put a lot of feeling into it.
METTA to you, man!
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