Laurel's practice

Thanks, everyone. It is difficult to broadcast all my problems to the world of the internet, yet I think it's an important part of this process for people to get a sense of what other people's experiences are like. So these are mine.

Strangely enough, I don't feel that I have any real issues at this point in my life. I have probably some unprocessed trauma from the past that is manifesting as specific phobias. I also have other unpleasant sensations that I identify as anxiety, which could be caused by any number of things, but I'm sure my medication adjustments are playing a big role. I'm not sure how much of this is dark night. My operating hypothesis for months has been that a lot of it is, but I really don't know any more.

When I say I don't have issues, I mean that my job is pretty decent, my marriage is fine, my child is well, and whatever pain and disappointments I've had I've been through again and again in therapy over the years. So what's left is whatever is manifesting in my own mind and body. I have to confess I do not understand it. I'm now embarking on another round of EMDR in the hopes of processing the car accident of so many years ago. In the meantime, I'm kind of bored telling my story to myself or other people. Yet someplace, deep in my body/mind, there's a little animal that doesn't feel safe. So that's the extent of it: I don't have issues, I have sensations.

I haven't meditated much this week, since the retreat--only twice. Both times I've either been exhausted or my concentration has been nonexistent. I am, however, planning on a 5-day retreat at the end of the month, and am going to get back on schedule. I'm also going to resume noting during the day as much as possible. I am doing my best to maintain an attitude of open acceptance of what is. That's about all I can do.

Who has sensations?

Good question--and one I forgot to ask. I'm back on my old meditation schedule, and yoga as well. Every so often I have to stop doing yoga in order to remind myself of why I do it. It seems as if I don't really make any progress with it, but without it, things go downhill pretty fast. So now I know.

The same seems to be the case with meditation. If life seems grim with this practice, it's hopeless without it. My sits haven't been particularly inspiring, either. I even gave up last night before the timer went off. I'm either sleepy or distracted, yet there are times when the body falls into peaceful vibrations. So I will do what I can to maintain some kind of momentum. This morning I opened my eyes a couple of times in an attempt to promote better alertness. This worked until they got heavy and closed of their own accord, at which point I lost focus for awhile. This is how it is.

"This worked until they got heavy and closed of their own accord, at which point I lost focus for awhile. This is how it is. "

"This is how it is" is a wonderful thing to notice.

""This is how it is""

... and a sense of wonder will get any of us through any sit!

"

Have you tried noticing narratives? When I practice in that way, I discover lots of hidden desires that just cause trouble. Here's the technique I use:
1) I ask myself "What is happening?" to discern the plot. The answer to that question is the plot. Example: I hate my job.
2) I ask myself "Who are the characters in this story?". Then I answer: my boss, my job and myself. Notice that I consider the job a character, I do this in order to discern the dualities in the plot.
3) I look for the dualities: obnoxious boss-frustrated employee, Job/unpleasant situation-Victim of Job/unpleasant situation. I'm the employee and the victim.
4) I figure out the rules of my characters: a frustrated employee will feel, well, frustrated. It will feel helpless, angry, yearning for freedom, etc. A victim will feel disappointed, sad, angry, powerless, etc.
5) I figure out the desires of my characters: wanting to leave the job, wanting to give my boss a lesson, wanting to be happy, etc.
6) I note the desires and I realize that when I note my desires, I am not my desires. I disembed.

Let me know if this helps!"

Hey APriori, where did you find out about this technique? I'm curious to read about more things like this. I notice that sometimes I dismember through techniques I make up like these rather than just simple noting. I would really like to see more what others do.

"Hey APriori, where did you find out about this technique? I'm curious to read about more things like this. I notice that sometimes I dismember through techniques I make up like these rather than just simple noting. I would really like to see more what others do."

Hey! I made it up myself. I used to go to psychoanalysis sessions a few years ago and, from there, I learned to discern plots and characters with the help of my psychoanalist. Then I figured I could use that in practice and made some adjustments to come up with the technique. I'm gonna try and look for psychoanalysis texts and send them to you.

"Hi Laurel, I think its really great that you're being so open about what's going on in your experience. Even though right now it doesn't feel like its a reduction of suffering, believe me: noticing unpleasantness in all its manifestations creates the conditions for liberation (noticing cultivates mindfulness and mindfulness cultivates space for liberation).

Have you tried noticing narratives? When I practice in that way, I discover lots of hidden desires that just cause trouble. Here's the technique I use:
1) I ask myself "What is happening?" to discern the plot. The answer to that question is the plot. Example: I hate my job.
2) I ask myself "Who are the characters in this story?". Then I answer: my boss, my job and myself. Notice that I consider the job a character, I do this in order to discern the dualities in the plot.
3) I look for the dualities: obnoxious boss-frustrated employee, Job/unpleasant situation-Victim of Job/unpleasant situation. I'm the employee and the victim.
4) I figure out the rules of my characters: a frustrated employee will feel, well, frustrated. It will feel helpless, angry, yearning for freedom, etc. A victim will feel disappointed, sad, angry, powerless, etc.
5) I figure out the desires of my characters: wanting to leave the job, wanting to give my boss a lesson, wanting to be happy, etc.
6) I note the desires and I realize that when I note my desires, I am not my desires. I disembed.

Let me know if this helps!"

A KFD yogi played this talk for our group in Atlanta, on the topic of disembedding from storylines:

dharmapunxnyc.podbean.com/2011/07/12/how...movies-in-your-mind/

It's quite good...

The next time I have something happen like the run-in with the mother of my son's friend I am going to use this. I will probably have to go over it again and again and again. At the time, I can say I did note desires--to teach her a lesson, punish her, vindicate myself, etc.--but the last step, disembedding from them, proved difficult. Perhaps the problem is that I wallowed in the narrative too much in between noting, and allowed it to consume me. There was of course a perverse pleasure in it, which I'm sure was my imagination providing me with a sense of ultimate satisfaction, something reality could not give me. It was an effort at closure, when the actual encounter had left the bitterness of unfinished business.

The part that is hard for me is "I am not my desires." I continually leave off before arriving at this point. Even if I try to take that step, I don't really have a conviction about it. So there it is. It will take practice.

Speaking of practice, I am still sleepy all the time when I meditate, like a hibernating bear. I then feel restlessness and boredom, wanting to quit early. I note these feelings. I have the knot in the midsection, which comes and goes. This morning it was persistent. Then somehow I find myself vibrating for awhile. I had quite a lot of pain cropping up in various places this morning, and then I ended up with the gentle shaking, rocking back and forth from time to time. So things are happening, even if I sleep through part of it.

At the point of "I am not my desires" or on the flip side "I am not my aversion", you probably need to disembed from the "I" rather than the "desires/aversion". When you have seen and disembedded from everything else, but there is still desire/aversion to experience, that is the time to find the source of that desires/aversion, the "I" sense that anchors it to experience. If you can clearly see that "I" sense attached to the desire/aversion as phenomena, then you will have made a big leap.

"In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;"

"At the point of "I am not my desires" or on the flip side "I am not my aversion", you probably need to disembed from the "I" rather than the "desires/aversion". When you have seen and disembedded from everything else, but there is still desire/aversion to experience, that is the time to find the source of that desires/aversion, the "I" sense that anchors it to experience. If you can clearly see that "I" sense attached to the desire/aversion as phenomena, then you will have made a big leap.

"In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;"
"

SO true Justin. Thanks for pointing that out. It has become a habit to fragment "myself" from desires and, as we all know, the problem is dualistic fixation and not the desire.

This is a habit that I need to work on intentionally. It is far from established yet for me. I think my continued investment in the illusion of the separate self is a big contributor to the painfulness of the Dark Night stuff I've been experiencing. I had a lesson with Beth yesterday and she says a lot of the things I have been describing sound like DN. It seems finally to be easing up somewhat, though, but if I need a motivation to practice, it's right there!

I had a sit yesterday morning that was another sleepy one, not much of the relaxed vibrations but a lot of noting in and around the dreamlike state. I was alert a good part of the time, though. Then last night I had insomnia, so I got up and did about 45 minutes of noting practice. There were a lot of aches and pains in my right upper arm and left wrist, not surprising considering I played viola in a quartet all evening . Eventually I started the rocking/shaking pattern, with strong and painful tension in the back of the neck. This came on for awhile, then stopped, then returned and stopped again numerous times. There were no fine vibrations in between that I could discern. There were some monster itches that dodged in and out of the painful spots and seemed to fuel the shaking. I did not have any trouble noting through most of this. Didn't get sleepy until towards the end, at which point I had long ago turned off the timer, so I went back to bed.

You might be interested in Byron Katie's work and her 4 questions: The four questions:
1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know it's true?
3. How do you react when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be without the thought?
Turn it around.

You can go to www.thework.com/ for more elaborate explanation.

jack

This might sound strange, but it can sometimes be tricky to figure out how to partition the time available for practice between noting-meditation and active-investigation type practices.

There's no magic formula, but I would say it pays to be very clear on what a given amount of practice time is supposed to accomplish. Otherwise noting never happens or investigation isn't deep. So lots of good ideas on this thread... but make practice desisions very consciously.

(p.s. Maybe I'm projecting, because I'll often drift into mental investigation (aka thinking) when I intend to be objectively noting.)

don't forget this isn't supposed to be *serious* - the mind doesn't work very well with that kind of pressure

you might find it useful, when anxious off the cushion, whether you note it or not, to make yourself smile and see what happens.

That may be getting easier; I seem to be nudging my way into low equanimity. This morning's 40 minute sit I fell into gentle vibrations almost immediately, and then watched one weird thread of thought after another arise and pass away, and I thought, sticky mind! I remember that! I've been smiling ever since, even through my 8:00 class with silent, sleepy students. I know that I'm on the border and likely to teeter back and forth, but it's good to be back.

"This might sound strange, but it can sometimes be tricky to figure out how to partition the time available for practice between noting-meditation and active-investigation type practices.

There's no magic formula, but I would say it pays to be very clear on what a given amount of practice time is supposed to accomplish. Otherwise noting never happens or investigation isn't deep. So lots of good ideas on this thread... but make practice desisions very consciously.

(p.s. Maybe I'm projecting, because I'll often drift into mental investigation (aka thinking) when I intend to be objectively noting.) "

Hm--I'm not sure how to go about that quite. Some people say stick to a practice as rigorously as you can, others say go with whatever seems to be working. I can see the merit of both approaches. This morning I tried sticking to noting as much as possible, but kept giving up and then returning to it. Stuff seemed to be just happening on its own and I was watching it, and the noting felt artificial. But I know the danger of letting things go is that no progress can result.

Do Nothing Meditation (Shinzen Young)


"When noting makes you racy, try Do Nothing"
"When Do Nothing makes you Spacey - try noting"

Mumuwu's post is a perfect kind of adjustment <within> a meditation practice... Sorry I was confusing Laurel, the kind of deciding I was talking about is more along the lines of... do I do meditation practice or do I do a "the work" kind of very mental/analytical analysis. Hope that helps clarify. I only posted that caution because, despite the ups and downs, what you're doing seems to be working.

Got it! Thanks for the vote of confidence, too. I watched the Shinzen Young talk and found it extremely helpful. I particularly love the little racy/spacey bit.

Last night, about 30 minutes, had a recurrence of shaking, itching, and all that good stuff. Kept with it by noting. This morning, about an hour, noted to start with and then settled into fine vibrations with slippery mind. Feeling a bit under the weather today, though, lots of aches and pains and difficult concentration. For all that, I'm not overly emotional, although I've had some reason to be.

I talked with Ron yesterday; I think I may be experiencing high equanimity in some of my sits, although not all of them. I'm feeling calmer during the day part of the time, but then I also feel anxiety and heaviness at other times. It's a bit of a yo-yo ride, to be honest. But the sits that seem like high equanimity are the ones where I feel calm, relaxed vibrations, with random imagery and thought loops just cycling in and out of the mind without attaching to any of them. At those times, noting drops off; I'll sometimes try to do it out of a belief that I "should" be doing something, but it feels artificial and unhelpful.

Of course, after talking about it I set up an expectation for having this happen, and then when it didn't I started to feel frustration and disappointment. Yesterday afternoon meditated for about 45 minutes, began by noting for awhile, noticed that nothing was moving in any particular direction, but then finally settled into a nice vibratory state, except for the fact that some of the vibrations felt a bit prickly. Last evening before bed had some trouble with thought loops, noted for awhile, spaced out for awhile, noted again, eventually settled down. But then I woke up at 3:30 and couldn't get back to sleep. This has been happening more often lately, a return of my insomnia, which hadn't been bothering me all that much in recent months. I meditated for about an hour. There was again a lot of thinking, planning, working out schedules and such. I had a hard time disengaging from that, but eventually settled down. By the time I felt relaxed the timer went off; meditated for an extra half hour or so after that. Then went back to bed, took forever to get back to sleep, then woke up with a jolt from a nightmare, one of my regulars which I won't repeat here because it's too terrifying to put into words, but let's just say there's some serious claustrophobia involved.

It was great to chat with you yesterday Laurel. Hang in there and keep the momentum going, and don't stress over "bad" sits, they help in their own way. Don't hesitate to skype me or email anytime.

Thanks, Ron! Had another odd one last night, spent most of the time noting, then about 10 minutes before the end got the itches from hell all over the face, which got me into the shaking again. I was happy to have the timer go off.

This morning I got in 30 mins., interrupted in the middle with a bunch of books suddenly sliding off the shelf near where I was sitting. I was distracted, needless to say! But I got back underway and finally ended up in gentle vibrations. Not the most focused sit I've ever had, however!

Yesterday afternoon, 30 mins., prone to distraction. Did noting mostly. Finally felt gentle vibrations toward the end, sleepiness. This a.m., woke up with anxiety in the gut, wrenching and unpleasant. It's been that way lately. Sat for 30 mins., noting for awhile, then got severe itches that prompted shaking again. Hm. This seems to be a kind of back-and-forth pattern, which I recognize from last summer.

35 mins. in the middle of the night (insomnia again), had a true to form dark night session if there ever was one. I'm amazed I even stuck it out, but I kept telling myself that avoiding unpleasant experiences does not get a person to stream entry. I began innocently noting after the initial 3x10 breath counting. The most powerful sensation was pain in my left hip, which has been a bit stiff of late. It became excruciating after awhile; it wasn't a question of how I was sitting, either, because I was just sitting on a couch. My noting was rather unfocused, trying to move around and note other sensations as well (ringing in the ears, other sounds, an occasional itch). For awhile I got gentle vibrations, but the pain in that one spot eventually led to shaking. I'd have a spasm of the pain and then start shaking, then suddenly stop, maybe have a few minutes of relief (sometimes with vibrations), and then start up again. As the time wore on the shaking got wilder and wilder; at the beginning it was barely noticeable, but at the end I was practically thrashing around. There were a couple episodes of lights flashing in the middle of the sit. As I said, it's amazing that I even stayed put for all of it. It seemed to go on forever.