Laurel's practice

(babbling on, so I'll delete my follow-up comment for now.)

I have to second everything gira just said.I believe I once posted about surrendering to things without wallowing in them, so I had (and at times still do) have that problem. What gira describes in her post in a sense has saved my life, so I would take it very seriously. If you see my posts from a month or two ago they were very suicidal. Even though I am still dark nighting my outlook and attitude towards negative sensations has greatly changed. If you still have issues with that, maybe wallow in the negativity if surrender doesn't work BUT be mindful of the wallowing. What usually happens is that my mind sees that wallowing isn't satisfying and it doesn't make me feel better so after a little while my mind moves away from the wallowing (or desire to wallow). I realized that trying to change the sensations hasn't worked... so Im just experiencing complete **** and being mindful about it rather than experiencing the **** anyways and fighting it.

I'm hearing what you're both saying, and I guess while this whole mess was happening I was investigating everything, so in that sense I was surrendering to it--I was experiencing the whole thing. During this morning's drive on icy roads it wasn't just the rage at this woman, but it was the panic, the PTSD, really. Underlying the response is a lot of thinking--I "should' not be having these responses, I "should" have more maturity, I "should" be more enlightened, my meditation practice "should" be producing better results.

I noted these thoughts. I also noted my relatively new belief system, that this isn't really happening to a "me," except there was nothing objective about it, it was all of it "me," and all of it suffering. I had the hot coal right there, in my hand. I could feel it, and I couldn't drop it. Eventually it just cooled off and I'm baffled, thinking, what on earth was *that* all about? I still want to rip that woman's face off, but it doesn't have the same charge that it did earlier. I drove home after the service without incident. My son is now having the time of his life with his friends in the next room.

Chris, you say it's just stuff, not truly powerful. It's only in hindsight that it feels like just stuff. When I was in it it consumed me. Which I suppose means yes, I was surrendering to it. I was certainly not missing out on any of it. But my thinking mind was saying, "no, no, no, make it stop." I would gladly not have to repeat this kind of thing ever again. But I think I've been operating under the assumption that if I'm a "good" meditator, I won't. And maybe that's what has to go. Thanks, guys.

You've got the wisdom right there, Laurel - we really all come from this belief that things that feel nice are "it" and we want them all the time, and things that feel bad are horrible and should go away. If we meditate "well" we will feel good, and if we feel bad it's because we meditate "badly." It's actually ********. It's that pattern of grasping and aversion that locks us into suffering. It makes no intellectual sense to let go of that pattern. It goes against our ego-driven instincts. "I want to fix this! I want to make it the way I want it to be, right now!!" That's why we practice. This is where we have to trust the process and just practice, even when it seems counter-intuitive and makes no sense. You can do it!

Sometimes when you're in the middle of a **** storm, the only thing is to drive straight through. Any swirving, any different route just tends to prolong it. It's gonna suck, but you know it isn't really real -- and that's the important thing. It's real, but not really real. And it sucks, you don't know what to do that would help. But you know what not to do, what would hurt : indulge/wallow/lash out. And then, usually without anything you did, you find yourself on the other side. Kinda looking back and saying, what the hell was all of that!?!

Right? This kind of thing totally goes with disembedding. In a way it hurts more, because you have a sense it is optional in some way... but there is no escape route, it's just gotta play itself out.

Laurel, there's only one way to the freedom you want -- face the fear. Fear is your friend. Its hurt isn't real. It's the second arrow. You can't awaken by avoiding and running. You have to go there. When you do you find out how truly powerful surrender is, and how weak fear is.

By the way, I don't know if the language of my post makes it clear, but I totally sympathize!

Hey Laurel,

It sounds like you're dealing (or dealt) with a lot of worry and restlessness, which is one of the 5 hindrances, and I'm going to bring up what I mentioned on my own practice thread: that, at least from what I've read so far, the Buddha never said not to try to get rid of your worry and restlessness. Wanting to get away from worry and restlessness isn't wrong; it's merely the desire to cultivate dispassion (which is a "good" desire; born from aversion, I suppose, but in that case you could argue that Buddha's encouragement to focus on the drawbacks of sensual pleasure is merely the drumming up of aversion).

Anyhow, the antidote to worry and restlessness is serenity via the jhanas, which you appear to have experience with. Buddha has four additional steps for getting rid of hindrances if the "antidote" doesn't work (these are my summaries of what is more extensively iterated here: www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.020.than.html ):

2. Focus on the drawbacks of that defilement.
3. Stop paying attention to them.
4. Relax thought-fabrication.
5. Crush the mind with awareness.

If you try it, hope it helps!

-rickety

I do so appreciate everybody's advice and support! I guess what's weird about my situation is that most of my misery is off-cushion; on the cushion I'm having the alternation between dreaminess and vibrations. It's really rather relaxing. I'm thinking my other business may have to do with brain chemistry rather than my place on the path, but I can't be sure. I'm going to be Skyping with Beth tomorrow, so I'll be sure to talk it through.

I had my Skype session today with Beth; she directed me to focus on the body, and we did Mahamudra noting for awhile, responding to the pain of the anxiety with compassion. I ended up in tears, which I didn't expect. It was as if the focus of sensation moved from the midsection up into the throat and the eyes. What I thought was anger and fear turned into sadness; I surrendered into the sadness, and continued to note "compassion." So that's how to drop the hot coal.

I am working on meditating as much as possible and in the meantime practicing mindfulness off the cushion. I need to ramp up the momentum, now that I'm reminded of what suffering is like. I meditated this afternoon but was interrupted three times, by my husband coming home, the phone ringing, and my son coming home. But I got another 45 minutes in this evening. It was kind of a snooze fest, but I noted pretty consistently until the last 10 minutes or so. I think I felt myself ascending through the nyanas, certainly into fear, disgust (missed misery, alas) and then into some ratchety vibrations that felt like reobservation, at which point I seem to have passed into dreamland. Beth says not to be too concerned over twilight sleep but just notice it happening. I do feel more refreshed.

Sounds like progress Laurel !

Thanks, Stephen! I certainly hope so. I sat for 35 minutes this morning and it felt like forever; the mind wanted to lose itself in sleep, but I don't think it was simple sleepiness. It was a struggle to maintain any kind of mindfulness at all. I experienced vibrations both in between and during some of the bouts of drowsiness; then afterward I tried lying down for a few minutes to see if I'd actually go to sleep, but instead I just lay there daydreaming. So I got up and did yoga for awhile, prodding myself to retain mindfulness. Made a resolve to be mindful during the day today, to limit internet time, and to work at certain tasks that need to be done. We'll see how that goes.

Difficult time, distracting, plus lots of anxiety. Holiday stress; even weekends are difficult because of the change in routine. Trying to maintain mindfulness, some of the times successful, often not.

45 mins, another snoozy one. It's getting old. It took awhile for the drowsiness to happen, maybe 20 minutes or more. Up until then I was just noting, noting, noting. Nothing much seemed to be happening. Eventually vibrations kicked in as well.

45 mins. this morning. Began with counting the breath, lots of distraction, didn't really settle until I began noting. I did precise noting for about 20 minutes or so, then began my alternation between drowsiness and vibrations. There was not much itchiness, a few aches and pains, a tendency for my head to keep sinking down (probably going to sleep!). The drowsiness was more persistent and unpleasant than yesterday. I experienced shaking after another 10 minutes, which felt more like wider and wider vibrations. There was some pressure in my neck and back. It was something like the shaking/rocking motion I've experienced before, but not as extreme, and not precipitated by strong sensations like itches. The grosser and finer vibrations alternated with sleepiness until the timer went off.

After that I decided to lie down and see what happened. I fell asleep and had an extremely vivid and bizarre dream in which I stopped off at my mother's place, only to find that I had mistakenly gone to a place where she used to live, not where she lives now. I'm sure this is connected to my feeling sad over witnessing her decline. Have been intensely conscious of the 3 Characteristics lately.

Went to a daylong about an hour's drive away today. The first morning sits were typical of what I've had at home, with a lot of sleepiness and noting around it. The second one involved a lot of pain in my left arm and shoulder, which brought on shaking, in the form of rocking back and forth. Walking meditation in between felt distracted.

Then after lunch I hit low eq for the first time in months, or at least that's what I think it was. I was tempted to say my troubles are over, happy days are here again, etc. There were lovely bliss waves, one after another, and settling into and staying in a state of satisfying samadhi was like falling off a log. The only fly in the ointment was a nagging pain in my back, but it didn't bother me much. There was a break, and then when I got back I thought, here we go again, only to find myself with more back pain and a lot less pleasure. The walking meditation became harder and harder as my arms started to hurt, almost as if I were carrying chunks of lead in each hand. I was deeply concentrated for the most part, but that just seemed to bring on more pain. I opened up to it, and allowed myself to experience even the knot of fear that was forming in the usual spot. But by the time I had to drive home in the dark I was dealing with serious fear as I toodled along with people shooting past me on all sides. It wasn't a full-blown panic attack like last week, but it was unpleasant enough that I now feel as if I don't want to go anywhere for a long time. There are other retreats coming up next month, so I have to decide whether I can face the drive up and back. What a bummer.

I do want to add a couple of things: first, that in the retreat itself I finally got a sense that I need to stop struggling against this stuff and surrender to it, no matter how unpleasant. I observed the component parts of the fear response and noted the vedana, unpleasant, and kept that up. Then in the car I worked at doing the same thing, shifting my attention at times to grounding myself in the seat, or noting the pressure of my hands on the steering wheel. It was hard work and didn't feel good. I also engaged in a bit of soothing self-talk as I was going through it.

I just got through reading Daniel's Hierarchy of Vipassana Practice on the DhO--impressive stuff.

Hi Laurel, can you pinpoint how the fear started? notice how the senses absorbed all the information which gave rise to negative thoughts and emotions, which give rise to fear and separation from the rest of the universe. This is how the illusion of suffering/separate self is created.
It might worth re-running this during meditation.

I think it started at about 4:00 (the retreat ended at 6:00), with me planning on taking a beta blocker and becoming increasingly obsessed with when would be the right moment to take it, working up a bit of drama over disappointment that I felt I had to do that, etc. I was watching the knot begin to arise again, then thinking, then watching, then calculating, and the thought and sensation reinforced each other. By the time I got to the car I was pretty wound up.

I meditated again last night and ran some of it, and experienced the shaking and rocking that have happened a few times lately. I was still feeling the knot by the time I went to bed. Then I had another vivid dream, in which I stood up to someone who was rebuking me harshly for doing poor, substandard work. I woke up feeling awful, not wanting to meditate, but not wanting to stay in bed either. But I dragged myself off to the cushion, set the timer for 45 minutes, and got started.

What happened is that as I was focusing on the poisonous sense of tension in the midsection I began thinking of my little son. I'd gotten up in the night to use the bathroom, and heard footsteps outside the door. When I opened the door, there he was in shadow, waiting for me to come out, holding himself the way little kids do. Afterward he asked for a hug. This image flashed through my mind and I opened up my heart center, feeling compassion, vulnerability, love, and the tears started, and the poisonous knot was gone. For the rest of the session I sat in pleasant, relaxing vibrations. Thoughts slip-slided through my mind, came and went. It was good.

Laurel, you seem to be searching for some "thing" outside of you that will help relieve your anxiety. There are such things, of course. Medications help a lot of people whose brain chemistry needs a tweak. I've taken them. They do help. In regard to your practice, however, there is nothing "outside" that will help you -- no permanent experience to achieve that will overcome or overlay or remove your "issues." In your practice, in my practice, in everyone's practice there is only one way to move forward, and that is to observe and then surrender to experience. It is all just your experience and resisting it will only cause more pain and suffering. Facing those experiences is the path.

Make sense?

I'm trying to do that. In post 365 it seems I was doing the best I could at it, then in 367 as well. If there's a "thing" I'm looking for now it's stream entry. People say that one's suffering is reduced a significant amount after that, and I believe them. If I didn't think that things get better with insight, I wouldn't bother with it. I know that sounds shallow but I want things to be better not just for myself but for those around me as well. And I want to understand this strange, strange world in which I find myself, and this strange, strange self that I really don't even know any more.

In my lesson with Beth the other day, she told me to observe all these things with compassion. Every time I can do that something melts. The pain is back again, but then I go through the same thing. I am doing the best I can to surrender; I'm just trying to learn how. I no longer am thinking, why must this be happening to me? But I can't force myself not to wish it would all just go away. Talk about bleedthrough, this morning I've run the gamut from more fear to misery, disgust (nausea) and tears of desire for deliverance. I watched the whole show, felt miserable, wished I could just die already and get off this wretched whirligig, only to find myself minutes later wondering what that was all about. I see unsatisfactoriness and impermanence all around me, and I don't know what self is, so the three characteristics are becoming a default way of experiencing the world. I'm just going to keep on with it and work toward whatever breakthrough is next.

Okay. It just seemed like you had resistance going on, which in my experience, well, I already said that

Beth's advice sounds right on!

Keep going!

I've been feeling so miserable I haven't even wanted to sit. I'm not sure but what I should stop meditating and deal with the anxiety disorder. Then this morning I sat for half an hour, was asleep for half of that, and afterward went back to sleep for awhile. I'm sleep deprived, haven't been able to sleep all that well lately, but discovering that this is probably driving me even more nuts has been helpful. I suspect that tapering medication is causing some of this reactivity. It probably is Dark Night overlaid by other stuff. I'm going to consult a new therapist and try EMDR, starting tomorrow. I've about had it. At the moment it's not bad, but for a good part of the day there's this grinding mess in the area just above the navel that feels horrible.

Last night I observed a play of three emotions: fear, morphing into separation anxiety, morphing into guilt. I noted the thought loops that were creating the emotions as they moved through the sequence, and then I noted a direct link between thoughts and a feeling of heat that spread all the way through my upper body. It was crystal clear in a way it has never been before. I've been noting during the day the feeling of impatience, of wanting to treat myself to something to break up monotony, to be elsewhere, to be gratified in some way--in other words, patterns of craving and aversion. I have also been noting how the anxiety grows when I give in to that, as if I'm realizing experientially the unsatisfactoriness of it.

I am still not absolutely sure how to proceed, but am being cautious with myself. So far I haven't been to the point of letting any of this bleed through into my job or my relationships, and I feel that I can keep it that way.

I know its easier said than done, so the fact that you are seeing that cause and effect between thoughts,emotions, body sensations is such an important break through. Your starting to see through the misery and pain as the (stubborn) illusion that it is!
Making this the cutting edge of your practice might just make the suffering start to fall apart.

For what it's worth, I've known a few people who were helped by acupuncture when dealing with medication withdrawal. Some meds are really, really hard to get off of. Hang in there.

Jason

Hi Laurel, I think its really great that you're being so open about what's going on in your experience. Even though right now it doesn't feel like its a reduction of suffering, believe me: noticing unpleasantness in all its manifestations creates the conditions for liberation (noticing cultivates mindfulness and mindfulness cultivates space for liberation).

Have you tried noticing narratives? When I practice in that way, I discover lots of hidden desires that just cause trouble. Here's the technique I use:
1) I ask myself "What is happening?" to discern the plot. The answer to that question is the plot. Example: I hate my job.
2) I ask myself "Who are the characters in this story?". Then I answer: my boss, my job and myself. Notice that I consider the job a character, I do this in order to discern the dualities in the plot.
3) I look for the dualities: obnoxious boss-frustrated employee, Job/unpleasant situation-Victim of Job/unpleasant situation. I'm the employee and the victim.
4) I figure out the rules of my characters: a frustrated employee will feel, well, frustrated. It will feel helpless, angry, yearning for freedom, etc. A victim will feel disappointed, sad, angry, powerless, etc.
5) I figure out the desires of my characters: wanting to leave the job, wanting to give my boss a lesson, wanting to be happy, etc.
6) I note the desires and I realize that when I note my desires, I am not my desires. I disembed.

Let me know if this helps!