Laurel's Practice II

Thanks Laurel, Keep it cooking! I think since you are much more familiar with the territory this time around you will not have the falling back like you did before. It seems after SE, there is much less sliding back now that you are flowing in the stream.

I sincerely hope so! I am going to keep it cooking. Had a lesson with Beth yesterday, which mainly consisted of me coming to the realization that my indulgence in papanchas is, as usual, destabilizing and not serving any useful purpose. There was lots of uncontrolled crying for awhile; sounds like the dukkhas, unless it's just my psychological patterns. So I'm back to the present moment, every time I think of it.

Sit last night (30 mins) focused on the breath for longer than usual, got nicely relaxed (don't know which jhana; haven't done enough with them to tell them apart). Then had some gentle vibrations kick in when I began noting toward the end.

This a.m. 30 min, more distraction at the outset, noting led to a period in which the mind created some dream imagery. Instead of spacing out entirely I followed it into whatever rabbit hole it was going, then watched the mind move back into presence, then back into another dream, etc. Noted hearing, aching, tension. Lots of tension in the midsection when I started out (early morning fear response). Eventually got the stronger sensations (an itch or a jab of pain) that prompted rocking and shaking, which characterized the rest of the sit. Some restlessness toward the end.

Speaking of fear, I told Beth about those early morning miserable feelings of anxiety, and she said (of course) note it, and I said I really, really resist doing that, to which she answered (of course) note the aversion. What's funny is how automatically I would have told someone else the same thing, but it's not so easy when it's oneself int he hot seat!

I don't know if this will be helpful for you, but in the past I have taken my fears and anxieties and focused very attentively on them, really being aware of exactly how they arise. As you say, it is hard when in the middle of it, but still, sometimes, looking from the Dependent Origination point of view, I could finally clearly see how my "anxiety" was only a sensation. Then I found it unpleasant. Then I resisted (the clinging, craving part). Sometimes I could disengage it in this way, and just leave it as a neutral sensation.

Thanks, John. Right now my work situation totally s*cks, so I have something really tough to use as the basis for practice. I focus on the sensations for awhile, then the papanchas start, then I go back to focusing or else do something else to distract myself, then the papanchas start, then I try again. I get islands of calm but that's about it. At the moment it's a very poor substitute for indulging my desire to tell someone where to get off, but I have to remind myself that that's what got me in some of this mess in the first place. I'm being sucked back into a sense of grievance and it's not doing me any good to go there. I guess the obvious next question is, why go there, then? Because it's so seductive, that's why. There's strong aversion (another person's punitive behavior), and there's craving (wanting vindication, wanting protection, wanting solace). How does that feel? Tightness in the chest, tension in the belly, a draggy tiredness, and then, if I sit with that for a couple of minutes, calm. Interesting. If on the other hand I start thinking or talking, I get agitation. I guess this should be a no-brainer.

A sense of grievance is a powerful and disturbing thing. when i'm having that experience and say "thought" to it, it kind of helps. it reminds me --- oh yes, it's only a thought, it's not 'out there', it's not real. do you note the feelings. i presume you probably do, when you remember.

P.S. I'm not sure what papanchas are, some kind of mexican food would be my guess, but then i don't suppose they'd be such a bother if that were true...

I thought papanchas were a Yiddish expression for being so annoyed about things it makes you twitchy, until I looked it up...

I use the term a lot because I love it so much; it perfectly describes what I do: spin out thoughts endlessly in a proliferation of words in my mind. I try to resolve it by thinking my way through it, and only get in deeper.

I was up again half the night, partly because I unwisely had a cup of coffee in the late afternoon. I now have a resolve: I resolve in all future experiences of insomnia to use the time for meditation, either noting in bed, anapanasati or vipassana on the cushion, or walking meditation, or some combination of them. I will not surf the internet, read, engage in papanchas, or graze in the kitchen. I will face whatever is painful and difficult by noting how it manifests in the body.

Furthermore, I will regard all people, friendly and unfriendly, especially the latter, as my teachers, who help me to transcend complacency ,and to learn to work constructively with wounds to my ego. I will regard them with metta, and thank them in my heart for their contribution to my awakening.

I sat before bed last night for about 45 minutes. I spent a good long time in jhana, and it was utterly wonderful. It was almost painful after awhile to pull myself away from it and start noting, but I shifted into the noting eventually. Got the itches in droves, some minor aches and pains, and eventually mild shaking and rocking. Things settled down into very subtle vibrations for awhile. There was some pressure in the back of the head, and some tingling over the body and in the third eye area. I was utterly refreshed afterward (although, regrettably, not sleepy).

"I spent a good long time in jhana, and it was utterly wonderful. It was almost painful after awhile to pull myself away from it and start noting, but I shifted into the noting eventually. "

Very cool post!

Have you ever tried investigating the jhana itself, not quite noting, but looking at the positive, negative, and neutral sensations within the jhana? It can be interesting because there will be all of those types of sensations. There will be some "lacking" nature to the jhana to make it possible to note.

The reason I suggest that is I think jhana can be so healing that it's good to spend time in when we feel that pull. The lack of ill will leaves a deep impression that helps neutralize the tendancy to create problems, dramas, etc. ---- because some of the jhana feeling starts becoming our base condition. That said, it's worth looking around within a jhana for its limitations, to keep us from thinking those states are a final answer.

Again, really great post!

Thanks, Betawave; I talked with Ron a couple of months ago and he suggested I might try using the jhana factors as an focus. I think I may need this right now, because of its healing potential. It seems to be what I'm drawn to. I have a two-week retreat coming up in August with Leigh Brasington, which I am looking forward to. Thanks again.

About 30 min. jhana practice this morning. Enjoyed it. But then I got into a situation later in the morning where I was with a group and we were working in a computer lab and the computers were either (a) abysmally slow or (b) not working at all (one had to sit for awhile to find out which kind one had) and after wiping out with two computers I lost my temper. Actually, I lost it well before that. I had a huge sense of entitlement going on ("I shouldn't have to put up with this!") as well as a feeling of helplessness ("other people around me are getting through their tasks and I'm just sitting in front of a blank screen"). The task itself was frustrating as well because it involved unfamiliar software.

I was aghast at my reaction. I didn't express my anger much outwardly (well, a little), but I found myself thinking, why am I, great meditating enlightened one, being childish? What good is all this? Interestingly enough, I watched my physical responses flare up and then smooth down relatively quickly, in some detail. But it was still disconcerting. I feel as if there's this mad beastie inside me that can start snarling and showing its fangs without so much as a moment's notice, no matter what I try to tell myself. We'll see how all this develops.

I find I go through a zone of great brittleness about an hour or so after a formal sit. At this time, if I am not careful, I can get as snitty or snittier than I ever was before I started mediating. It is weird, considering it's all happening against a background of a happier and calmer life.

" I feel as if there's this mad beastie inside me that can start snarling and showing its fangs without so much as a moment's notice, no matter what I try to tell myself. "

"Furthermore, I will regard all (mad beasties inside me that start snarling and showing their fangs), as my teachers, who help me to transcend complacency ,and to learn to work constructively with wounds to my ego. I will regard them with metta, and thank them in my heart for their contribution to my awakening."

The dividing line between self and other is a fascinating boundary, ain't it? Who are those demons? Best to have a conversation with them. Sit down with them and have a talk. Get to know them. There are surprises to be found in that dialogue.

Thanks, Rob, and good to see you here again. It does seem a bit of a letdown to have a lovely sit and then afterward find myself brittle, as you say.

Giragirasol and cmarti: I hadn't thought of that. I did try some mindfulness while it was going on, but most of the time I was mortified and just wanted the bad stuff to go away. In any case, I'll say that whatever complacency I'd started to allow to creep in was blasted away with those computer malfunctions and my reaction.

Tried to sit for 45 mins. last evening, gave up with 7 mins. left on the clock. I may just break down and limit myself to 30 minute sits for awhile. I began with jhana, switched to metta after awhile, then switched to noting. When I got to the noting I got the monster itches, one after another, overlapping, plus kriyas. I gave up early because I got sick of them all.

I've been having bad sleep issues lately, waking up every 2 hours like clockwork, even on nights when I'm not actually unable to sleep at all. So I'm not at my best. I'm not doing too badly during the day, strangely. I am chalking this up to the very end of my neurontin withdrawal process, which began last summer (so it's been about 10 months). In general, even with this going on, I'm doing better than I usually am this time of year. I recall year after year being so exhausted that I could hardly do anything for awhile after the school year was over. Now I feel just fine. Interesting.

We tend to view things through memory lenses, Laurel. Every experience we have gets filtered -- compared and analyzed in light of what used to happen, or what seems similar, or what we know from before. Have you thought about concentrating on seeing these lenses and filters as they are applied to your evaluation of every experience, or at least the ones that seem so meaningful to you? I think you might find that a fruitful exercise at some point.

Just a suggestion...

"
We tend to view things through memory lenses, Laurel. Every experience we have gets filtered -- compared and analyzed in light of what used to happen, or what seems similar, or what we know from before. Have you thought about concentrating on seeing these lenses and filters as they are applied to your evaluation of every experience, or at least the ones that seem so meaningful to you? I think you might find that a fruitful exercise at some point.

Just a suggestion...

"

Hi, Chris, not sure I understand you here--do you mean try to figure out what I'm looking for in a comparison? Most of what I'm interested in these days is how much different things are post SE. There are times when I seem to be dealing with the same endless round of issues, and yet in many ways things are so much different. I'm sure as I get to higher paths my fascination with this question will become much less.

Right now, sitting leads to two kinds of results, depending on the practice. If I do concentration I get deeply relaxed and absorbed, sometimes with some tingling. I can even tap into a version of this state during the day if I stop for a minute and just focus on the breath. If I do noting practice, I get itches and kriyas. I'm continuing to work at grounding practices, and am making modest progress with tai chi. My tai chi instructor told me to talk to myself as if I were a rider on an easily-spooked horse. I have found this approach to be helpful in objectifying emotions, which are quite close to the surface these days.

Ahh, the good ol' dukkha nanas. Yup, I'm in the same boat. Wonderful.

Do you find it different this time around? I did a half-day retreat yesterday, and I spent a couple hours experiencing the most awful ego issues: fantasies in which I was arguing with people, trying (unsuccessfully) to get recognition, tackling frustrations, etc. Very painful. I was getting distraught, wishing they'd stop. But then I realized, "It doesn't matter how often this happens, just so long as I note it." Duh! Managed to hit low EQ shortly thereafter.

Fun fun fun. Really makes me wonder sometimes why I bother doing this stuff, but then I remember, of course I feel that way, I'm in dark night...

I'm not sure that I'm in the Dark Night completely. I seem to be edging into it, though. The sits are mostly 3C's stuff, with some shaking thrown in, and then last evening some gentle vibrations. There's also dreaminess, which I associate with Dissolution. So I'm probably edging into Dissolution. As for Fear, Misery, and Disgust, those seem to play out a lot in daily life. A lot of my sits and my emotional responses do bear an astonishing resemblance to first path. The main difference is that jhana is much more accessible now, plus I know what this is and I'm not as completely thrown by it.

30 mins. this morning, still having trouble making it through an entire sit, however long or short it is. Don't particularly enjoy it, but that's not really the point, I know. 3x10, settled into noting, lots of minor itches, aches and pains, stiffness, tension, tickling; not much of the gut grinding, though, which is a nice change. Midway through started very subtle rocking motion, which went on more or less for the rest of the sit. Got bored and restless.

"Hi, Chris, not sure I understand you here--do you mean try to figure out what I'm looking for in a comparison?"

No, I mean literally that we all filter every new experience through what we already know and have experienced before.

That's true; things become "real" for us when we find a pattern to fit them. Just letting things be is hard, though. That's what this is all about.

I'm trying to let my own sessions "be" even though I seem to have a mild aversion to sitting. The combination of mental fog, itches, and thought loops is uncomfortable and it feels unprofitable. I'm watching these responses as well. Lots of kriyas still. This morning: watched the thought loops, then heard myself thinking, "Here comes the shaking," started rocking and shaking. Itches not too bad. Labeled thoughts as I was able. Not particularly alert feeling. At one point fine vibrations. At another point lights flashing. I'm still knocking around in that 3C's/A&P territory.

EDIT: I had an acupuncture session Saturday, which I think may have helped alleviate some of the grinding in the gut that has been a constant companion for so many years.

Also a bit of mild depression, plus some fear here and there.

Hi Laurel,

Do you think you can describe "depression" in other phenomenological ways (such as physical cues that tell you "this is depression"?) Or would you conisider "depression" as an irreducible descripiton?

I'm not trying to "dharma-challenge" you, by the way. It's a straight question. I'm kind of interested in how this kind of meditation work differs in a world of "clinical" depression, which I don't think I've experienced myself, but I know many who verifiably do. I am always interested in finding out what the internal world of depression is like, and you seem to be in a unique position to describe it.

Okay, here goes: Depression in my case is characterized by lethargy, a lack of interest in anything, a sense of life being pointless, a feeling that I'm just marking time until the Grim Reaper shows up. Sometimes it's just physical, a feeling of fog and weakness and inertia, with a bit of mild nausea. Sometimes a thought-loop gets involved (my whole life has been a waste of time, there's no point to anything). Lately I just note this stuff arising and say, "Next!" It's just the usual same-old same-old, so it's time to get busy and redirect, at which point I forget about it. Sometimes I get teary eyed, other times I note that I tend to focus on the fact that life is unsatisfactory. There's a trap in doing so because, of course, that's the first of the Four Noble Truths.

I've had horrendous depressive episodes in the deep past, in which I looked inside myself and found a wasteland for days upon days at a time. There was a glass wall between myself and everyone else; I was the kid with her nose pressed to the window, looking in without ever being able to take part. Right now my mild depressive symptoms are almost certainly a product of my recent withdrawal from the activity of classes. The brain is used to a certain level of stimulation and structure every day, and without that input it starts to spin a bit. I noticed it yesterday and said, time to get moving, so I imposed some structure on myself.

If you're interested in how practice affects depression, I need to say that I am much better able to objectify this stuff than at any point in the past. I used to have to struggle to objectify it, whereas now I can do so much more easily, and not get lost in it.

One of the best descriptions of depression that I ever encountered is Sylvia Plath's *Bell Jar*. I unfortunately first read the book at a point when I was getting depressed myself, so it wasn't good for me.

Finally, in my case, depression and anxiety go together. I'll get this twinge, or this grinding sensation, in the gut, and it'll be a clue that something awful may happen, or that I've missed or forgotten something, and then I'll feel a miserable sense of paralysis. A part of me thinks someone is about to punish me for my overlooking something I should have been aware of. The truth is, sometimes this does in fact happen: just a couple of weeks ago I neglected to take a necessary action involving my committee obligations, and one of my colleagues was furious with me. I fixed it, thank God, but a part of me let loose with the "you're worthless and life is not safe" script. The inevitability of making mistakes, and of teeing people off, is one thing; going into a state of life-isn't-worth-living paralysis is something else. When I caught the script I objectified it, but a hint of unpleasantness lingers in the gut whenever the episode comes to mind (or, unfortunately, when I see the colleague in question, which I just did a couple of minutes ago, in fact).

Someone has recommended metta practice to me here, and I am working on it. It seems that this is a good antidote; also, grounding of the body (tai chi) and learning to feel safe physically. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is also helpful, but I think it's best combined with insight practice, metta, and bodywork.

Thank you very much.

When I contemplate people I know who are depressive- a couple of whom really are in an acute, life-wrecking paralysis these days- I can understand the role of a "script" that you can get stuck in. This I have definitely experienced, and I can idenitfy and empathize; I can also empathize with a certain level of grinding anxiety. But there seems to be a gulf between that and the "glass wall"-type of depression. I could be wrong. I always wonder, are these degrees- mild vs. deep? Or two different things entirely? Is it a cycling "script" cycling so quickly that it looks like paralysis?

Again, thanks for these generous insights.