Laurel's Practice II

I think the difference between short-term scripts/anxiety and true depression is that the person experiencing depression comes to believe there is no hope for change. I lived with someone who had that kind of depression, and I watched him struggle for many years, and there'd be efforts at breaking loose, but he always kept coming back to a baseline that told him there was no hope, it was all pointless. He spoke of keeping up a shell for public life, the effort of presenting it all the time, and how at any moment it could collapse. There were a couple of times when it actually did collapse. The whole condition was sustained by a narrative that had him painted into a corner that grew steadily more cramped and narrow, to the point where there wasn't room even to breathe.

The good news is he found a way to get better. Some of it was through rethinking his life in the aftermath of a catastrophe so awful he decided he really did not want to die, and some of it was through spiritual practice and bodywork.

In my case, I was attracted to him because I recognized the script. It was my script. I now see it for what it was: a storyline. It returns for awhile sometimes in a ghostlike form, but it no longer resonates. I know my spiritual practice has been the most powerful force for change, but there's also the resolution that brought me to it as well.

I agree with Rob. Generous, nay, courageous and wise insights indeed. Thanks for sharing this. It's inspiring to see how you're stepping out of the stories.

Thanks for the kind words, Andy. I've been much better since I've quit overthinking things.

I had a daylong retreat yesterday, the first retreat-like experience since last January. Pretty much all my sits were the same, give or take variations in level of absorption. I had deep relaxation, dreamy thoughts that came and went, mild aches here and there, then an itch would trigger a mild bit of rocking or shaking for awhile, then the pattern might repeat or might just settle. When the bell rang I'd be deeply relaxed, and move into walking meditation in a state of samadhi. Some sessions were more distracted than others, but all were reasonably pleasant. I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm moving into very low EQ. There'd be some mild vibrations from time to time.

This morning, 35 mins. Lots of distracting thoughts. They didn't annoy me, but I noted a mild aversion to being fully present. When I returned my attention to things arising I noted a lot of tingling on the surface of the body, plus loud ear-ringing. What's missing is the jackhammer heartbeat sound that became such a fixture for me when I was in EQ last winter. There's some mild gut-grinding these days (which I could call "fear"). Off cushion I'm experiencing some aversion to things as they are, some anticipatory thoughts, and fear that comes and goes. Lots of aches and pains as well.

EDIT: I just realized how many times I've repeated the word "mild" in this description. Interesting.

About 45 mins. last evening. Decided to spend 30 mins. on jhana practice, then when the timer went off did noting. The jhana practice was nice (focus on the breath at the nostrils), but not quite stable. I'd wander off for a bit then settle again, finally beginning to allow the rapture to take over. I think I tend to resist the stronger sensations and I let those develop this time. After the timer went off I noted for awhile. Very pleasant, same pattern as I've been having all along for quite some time. Off cushion am unsettled and fearful from time to time, but also going through transition so I suppose that's a contributing factor. I want to increase my practice over the summer. I have a two-week retreat in August, which I'm looking forward to.

Last night was anything but mild. Did some jhana practice for about 15 minutes, then shifted to noting, and after a slow start got some monster itches on the nose that led to shaking. This time the shaking was intense, wobbling back and forth, with my head flopping around as if I was saying "NO" to something. It would subside, there'd be another itch, and then it was game on again. After the timer went off I stayed with it for awhile longer, but eventually just gave up and went to bed.

This morning, 35 mins., the opposite. Had a hard time settling down during the initial focus on the breath; muddled thoughts kept intruding. Then switched to metta for about 15 minutes. Had to work at maintaining focus. Finally switched to noting. Got some very gentle kriyas toward the end. I'm sure a lot of the variation has to do with time of day.

I'm having another one of those experiences I described in post 86: "In the seeing, there is only the seen; in the hearing there is only the heard" and so on. It came on as I was sitting at a meeting, mid afternoon. I had been a bit sleepy, then emerged and gradually became aware that "I" had gone into deep background. Am still in that state. This, I believe, is the same state I was in directly following SE, only then I was terrified and unsettled, whereas now I am peaceful and happy. Everything's fine.

Does it seem odd that you got the shaking again after being up in EQ? Did you have a path moment? I just got second path, and I noticed second gear practice was super-easy in the aftermath, too...

There hasn't been another path. This is the second similar experience I've had in about a month or so. I think it's just an experience of being "thin," not that much of me there. As for the shaking: no idea. I don't know if I'm in EQ, really, or if I'm just looping around a bit. I had been a bit Dark Nightish in daily life recently. Right now it feels good. I ran into someone who had hurt me a lot a couple of months ago (back in the fall); hadn't seen her since. I had been furious about it when it happened. When I saw her this evening I just smiled and said hello, and it felt fine. I wish I had some clarity about where I am, but I expect I'll get there sooner or later.

These things do tend to sort themselves out, I've noticed.

"These things do tend to sort themselves out, I've noticed."

Agreed. In retrospect all the confusion I had during 2nd path makes more sense now when I look back at things.

I sure am looking forward to getting sorted out. Right now, I'd settle for a vipassana session that didn't involve itching. I'm effing sick of it. I sat for 45 minutes, spent awhile in jhana with watching the breath at the nostrils, switched to metta, felt good and tranquil, then ventured into noting. Eventually got itches and kriyas. Not as intense as last night, but still, there it was. It will occasionally leave off and I'll have some peaceful, fine vibrations, but then it will come back. Toward the end I was getting aching in the head to go with it. Forget EQ, I think I'm just plain stuck in the 3C's and can't get out. Some modest lights flashing here and there.

It may be that I'm not able to break through because I'm not sitting long enough in vipassana. Maybe I should just do about 45 mins with minimal settling in and then see if I can get past it. There's a sense of frustration and impatience, but it isn't a deep emotional thing, just a let's-get-on-with-it kind of thing. Plus curiosity. I guess I did get into what felt like dissolution about 10 days or whatever ago. Who knows. I'm rambling; time to go to bed. The non-dual me is gone, the old me is back, btw. It had to happen sometime.

the non-dual thing sounded great... i've often wondered about that "in the seeking only the seeker" and all that

It is great. I had an opportunity to compare my responses directly when I ran into the same nasty woman yesterday, no longer in this state of reduced self, and all the old wounds opened and I personalized the whole thing. So it's pretty clear what ego drama can do for me, as if I didn't know.

I have been nearly sleepless for several nights now, with lots of energetic phenomena going on. Last night was the worst, with flashing lights and a racing mind. I was up for hours, and contrary to my resolve, I did not spend the time meditating. I'm thinking again that I need grounding practices to discharge some of this energy. I'm most likely having a super-duper A&P these days, but then this morning I felt paranoia and a sense of doom. I worked out of it after lunch. I'm doing a lot of practice during the day, am hoping for that serenity to come back, but also noting desire and aversion.

I've been reading andymr's thread and giragirasol's comments about the mind wanting something to hook on to, to take some sort of cognitive control of the process (I'm paraphrasing broadly). This resonates with me. I am resisting the uncertainty and the uncanny aspects of whatever place I'm at right now. Noted.

Energetic calming options when it keeps you up at night (from someone who has had some rather massive energetic stuff typical in her practice): meditate less - the more you meditate, the stronger the energy stuff will get for those prone to it; eat rich/heavy foods rather than light/diety foods; do standing energy-draining practice regularly (One version is to stand feet shoulder width apart, relax, imagine that the soles of your feet have roots deep in the earth. On each exhale, imagine energy draining from your body like water, down through the roots into the earth. Do for several minutes. Repeat as necessary.); get regular non-trance-inducing physical workouts, such as hiking, jogging, swimming, biking (not things that generate mental states like dance, yoga, martial arts). Maybe some of those will help. eta: Or you can do like me and just endure it all...

Thanks, giragirasol. Now here's the question: is this state I'm in (yes, I'm in it again) a trance? I was walking up the stairs, saw my knees moving and my feet on the steps, realized I had no sense they belonged to "me", and thought, here I am again. I'm at peace. Everything flows nicely and I love my family just fine, but I'm not thinking all that nervous like stuff about should I do this, should I do that, what will happen if I do this, will the sky fall if that happens, etc., etc., blah, blah. Feel a light, pleasant energy moving around on my skin, but nothing disruptive. The livin' is easy.

What does that mean, "trance"? Like an altered state? Not as I would use the word, which is like a hypnotic altered state similar to dream-consciousness. Personally I think those periods of "flow" (no sense of agency, everything happening by itself, perfect contentment, nothing needed, etc.) are flickers of non-abiding awakening. They begin to flicker through after what people here call "stream entry" and tend to flicker through more and more often towards "4th path". One perspective is that that is always your normal state. All the crap you usually experience is like dirt on the window. That's why one does noting, etc. - to gradually cleanse away the dirt. In my opinion the energetic side-effects are part of this cleansing process, too. Dark nights are important parts of this purification, too. There are other ways to think of it, of course.

If you've never read Adyashanti's "The End of Your World" you might find it very helpful in giving some context to what you are experiencing.

"thanks, giragirasol. Now here's the question: is this state I'm in (yes, I'm in it again) a trance? I was walking up the stairs, saw my knees moving and my feet on the steps, realized I had no sense they belonged to "me", and thought, here I am again. I'm at peace. Everything flows nicely and I love my family just fine, but I'm not thinking all that nervous like stuff about should I do this, should I do that, what will happen if I do this, will the sky fall if that happens, etc., etc., blah, blah. Feel a light, pleasant energy moving around on my skin, but nothing disruptive. The livin' is easy."

Hi Laurel

What your experiencing is awakening, the dissolving of the self. This is what we are all here for, well done!

Thanks; that's pretty much what I thought. I've read Adyashanti. I just got slightly thrown by the word "trance" when giragirasol said to avoid forms of exercise that are trance-inducing. This experience of awakening is still new to me, so I wasn't sure. Trance, from what I gather, is a kind of wooly-headed state, half asleep. This state I've experienced is nothing like that. The shift is so subtle, though, that if I weren't paying attention I might even miss it. I wonder how often people experience it just spontaneously and don't even realize it.

What's interesting is that it does feel perfectly natural. When I'm there I wonder what all the fuss was about. It seems so unnecessary. Then when I'm slammed back into ego-identification, and the stuff comes back, I feel overwhelmed by the nonsense. The contrast couldn't be clearer. Now I just have to figure out how to negotiate the energetic side-effects of the path. Thanks again.

So Laurel, do you think this is a state or is it something else? When you see, hear, touch, taste, in this "place" you now have access to what is that like? What has happened to the subject-object duality when you are there?

My experience of this was similar to what you are describing. Not too long after my first A&P, but definitely after stream entry, this dis-identified existence would show up periodically. Then on a particular plane ride I was staring out the window, thinking about a very specific question invoked by listening to some Christopher Titmuss podcasts, it snapped in very tightly and was thereafter available at will. It seems to me it is somehow independent of my formal vipassana practice. A happy serendipity of non-duality, without an identifiable cause. It just IS, and then everything in the universe just IS.

What do you think?

That sounds like it to me. It's happened three times in the past month, twice in the past four days. When I have sense input in that "place," it's as if things are manifesting, but that is all. There's no "I saw" but rather "there's a visual field manifesting." I think this is what happened to me immediately after SE, except I was so terrified at the time that I just wanted myself to come back again. Now when it happens I just want to smile. The shift feels quite subtle. I'm not saying it's a complete abiding in non-duality, either.

I have a way of testing whether I'm back in my old way of thinking: ask about something vexing, and see if the old script comes back up ("that so-and-so, I'd like to tell her where to get off!"). If this line of thinking grips me in any way, then I'm no longer there. If all I feel is gentle compassion, then I'm there. I look forward to having it be available at will.

Interesting. The concept of having to test is foreign to me, as it is so obvious when that way of seeing is on or off. Maybe I've gotten used to it over time but the first experiences were very, very stark and surprising, not subtle at all. It's still not subtle in the sense that it's so easy to know if I'm seeing one way or the other. In fact, it's very obvious that what's going on is endemic to the way I'm perceiving things, not to the things themselves. The universe is always "that way" and it is only my overlays that cause the dualities. Maybe a better way to put it is that the universe is total and complete, always as it IS, and the mind's misperceptions of it, caused by habits of thought, are just parts within that infinite, ultimate always perfect entirety.

Or whatever...

So do you ever see in the "other" way now? Do you choose to go back to duality? Is there ever a reason to do that? For me, the first two times I found myself in the state we're describing, it was quite stark. The experiences of the past couple of days have felt more subtle; part of the reason is that a lot of the time now I'm working at seeing things that way, although there is obviously a difference between having to work at it and having it arise on its own.

EDIT: I "take inventory" frequently, which I guess is what the HAIETMOBA practice is all about. For example, what I'm feeling right now: pain in the body, constriction in the belly, a nagging sense of being discontented, a slight tightness of the jaw, some restlessness in the limbs, and a nattering in the mind. When I sit really, really still there's a feeling of energy traveling up and down just under the surface of the skin over most of the body; it is rather pleasant.

No, I don't choose to see in dual terms. Circumstances dictate this. One has to live life and to an extent this requires seeing the dual nature of things. It's unavoidable as far as I can tell because the universe is both dual and absolute. Both are true, as the saying goes. This is the essence of "not two." At any given time I can see one way or the other but doing so, swapping one for the other, requires a full stop, a reassessment so to speak.

Is taking inventory the same as seeing the non-dual? In my experience it is not but it can lead to the swapping of duality for non-duality.

"Is taking inventory the same as seeing the non-dual? In my experience it is not but it can lead to the swapping of duality for non-duality.
"

I don't think it is the same as seeing the non-dual, but I do it as a kind of mindfulness practice, and at least one time it did seem to lead directly to that swap. I guess I do it also in the hopes that history will repeat itself. The more recent experiences have felt like they happened out of the blue.