recording and learning

4.5 hours noting and some walking meditation thrown in.... half of that was sitting on a beach.

calm, body still, relaxed, noted lazy mind, desire to daydream, fantasize, kept coming back. Normal body stuff most of the way except for pleasant pressure pulsing out the third eye area a few times, and also a one minute surge of energy all through the body at once when I was noting sensations in the core of the head and neck and noted 'thinking there is a something that is experiencing all this' , at which time something popped in my neck and I suddenly had too much energy flowing in the body (all pleasant in that minute).

Felt like this was cleaning house/noticing my beliefs. Noted desire to be a failure, desire to feel like I can't do it, noted attachment to images of a self struggling, attachment to images of a self failing, attachment to images of a self who is better than others, sometimes noted a desire/intent to daydream which often came right before the various self images. Noted desire to think. Noted some impatience near the end, noted desire to finish a few times as well.
While walking back from the beach it was 'step, step, step, breathing in, breathing out, step, step,' - was walking behind some young guys playing music as they walked, noted judgement, noted irritation at the music, noted desire for silence, noted arrogance, then more 'step, step, step...' Until home then more sitting at home.

55 minutes noting at lunch, did a few minutes of concentration beforehand...

noted some tension , feaful thoughts, rising, falling, hearing, seeing, contraction in stomach, tingles, vibrations, pulsing,
the contraction worked its way up to the neck area, then accompanied by thoughts of trying to get away, then tension rose up into head area, behind eyes, changing flavors from unpleasant to neutral, sometimes changing from unpleasant to pleasant, noted some intense pleasureable pulsing pushing its way up somewhere above the third eye area, on both left and right forehead, tingling, energy, some hot tingling, all over the body, lots of energy everywhere, noted lots of thoughts of wanting to be liked, wanting to avoid the sinking feeling of being disliked (this stuff was just there, no trigger from before or anything), more energy, tingling, pulsing, noted a few doubles and a triple, rising, falling, then the bell.

this practice seems to be pulling up lots of stuff that wants to be seen clearly...

20 min candle + 60 minutes noting...
Concentration seemed difficult...
noting was slow, needed more time to hit the sensations for some reason, started cycling through the senses, body and mind one at a time, 3-5 seconds a piece, going back to the breath every so often... Body still seemed full of energy, at first unpleasant contractions, pains, etc , then neutral, vibrations, tingles, pulsing moving around, mostly in head.
Noted thinking 'I can't do this' noted over and over, images of a victim, images of a self cowering in failure, noting a blockage in the middle of the, head, some contraction, solid, unable to feel inside. Noted through the senses and back to the thinking over and over, then the thought broke open a bit and somehow a memory fragment, remembering the first time I was bullied on the playground when I was 6, how my strategy was to be defeated to prevent hurt, and to pretend defeat more than necessary to get the perps in trouble, images of the same or similar strategy a few times later, then lots of tingling, the solid area broke apart and a somewhat strong, neutral to pleasant tingling energy surged through the upper body and filled the head, the solid blockage no longer there for a bit. Noting continued normally until the bell...

curious.

lots of resistance to being present this morning, took some time to get even some basic mindfulness going.

56 minutes noting at lunch, stayed anchored on rising and falling in the abdomen for a while, slowly, then sped up, tingling, pulsing, vibrations, contractions, thoughts of resistance, thoughts of giving up, thoughts of wanting a lobotomy, more thoughts of resistance, labeled mindstate 'temper tantrum', more rising and falling, noting more resistance until the bell.

hour noting -
snap. I re-read the basic instructions and tried to follow them to the letter. Rising, falling, daydream, rising, falling, trying to see as much detail in every single sensation in the abdomen as I noted rising and falling... What was interesting is I could detect 'shifts' in state.

First I noticed that as I dove into the detail in the stomach while noting that there was a slow increase in the detail in all the senses, to a level I wasn't used to perceiving, and I also noticed that the noting mind seemed to get faster. A few times I noticed thoughts and other sensations connected to them in the body and was able to note them effectively even though I was mostly just on rising and falling, trying to see every detail in the abdomen. I noticed a shift in state at some point where there arose pain in various places, uncaused, in my body. There were alot of subtle things I dont remember now, but I am exited to see cause and effect in the mind, in that trying to see fine grain detail in the abdomen, following the breath in that area while noting it led to more clarity and precision in the rest of my experience.
I had a memory image pop up of some dark knightish stuff from over ten years ago - its curious but its becoming clear to me that even though I seem to have dark night stuff, and I can recall some A&P like events, to be honest the level of clarity of detail and stability I have normally seems suggestive of being in the lower nanas. I have some work to do!

yay for following directions eh? Thats a miracle for someone with my personality.

60 minutes basic noting as above...

Stayed with rising, falling, noticing all the sensations, vibrations, pulsing, etc in abdomen, noted some self doubt thoughts, noticed noting had dropped off a few times, a number of times things shifted and it was clear that mind was 'over there' and body 'over here', breathing didnt seem very continuous, more like the abdomen rising and falling is experienced as a vibration of movement, but so fast I can only just tell its not perfectly continous..

At some point as I kept going back to the stomach area to *really* try to see everything happening there some sort of strong kind of jarring exitement started to develop, which was noted some and turned out to be somewhat disctracting, kept going back to the stomach. Bell rang, noticing self evaluation, thoughts of 'did I do that wrong?'

more practice tweaking - read some journals here (Kenneth you have a gold mine here - you could easily build a book with 4 chapters with practice logs of people getting each path..!)
I think the best way for me to approach the noting here right now would be to start out with 10-15 min of *just* abdomen noting and detail watching or until the mind seems concentrated and then allow attention itself to dictate the objects and speed. I can just note what it sees. I will continue to play with 4F stuff as well as I see how important it is to see all this stuff clearly.

one day peronal retreat tomorrow, Hopefully I can fit in ~8 or more hours of solid noting.

going to add an observation about long sits - I seem to get two days of 'awful' vibes and thoughts after a long sit... It happened after the last 3 day I was on, but took ~2-3 days to kick in, and the 4.5 hours from Sunday caused it to happen as well.. Usually when this happens I get caught up in all sorts of self doubt, sometimes anger/judgement, resistance to practice, etc. Noting this stuff seems to be very difficult, so I am putting this here to remind me to note it carefully when it happens next time.

"read some journals here (Kenneth you have a gold mine here - you could easily build a book with 4 chapters with practice logs of people getting each path..!)" -WSH3

I agree! This forum is a treasure trove of information on how enlightenment unfolds for real people.

"I seem to get two days of 'awful' vibes and thoughts after a long sit... It happened after the last 3 day I was on, but took ~2-3 days to kick in, and the 4.5 hours from Sunday caused it to happen as well.. Usually when this happens I get caught up in all sorts of self doubt, sometimes anger/judgement, resistance to practice, etc. Noting this stuff seems to be very difficult, so I am putting this here to remind me to note it carefully when it happens next time." -WSH3

Yes, note carefully and be sure to notice the aversion. Oftentimes, switching to noting mind states can get you through a difficult time.

Also, don't hesitate to do a practice like Mahamudra noting, which can shift the experience toward openness, acceptance, metta, and compassion. Sometimes during the dukkha nanas, we have a tendency to get too grim, to wear a hair shirt. There is a reason why so much emphasis is placed in Buddhism upon the cultivation of positive mind states; when you enjoy your practice, you are more likely to do it. And since the important thing is continuous attention in this moment as opposed to whether this experience is pleasant or unpleasant, you may as well have some pleasantness in your life. Generate some positive mind states and note them. Guilt free!

Thanks.

80 minutes noting tonight, following what was interesting...

first rising, falling, hearing, some thoughts of inferiority, thoughts of failure, noted,
then noting tension in the chest, tingling, heat, switched to doubles and some triples,
noted the tension, tingling, heat, unpleasant, image of a suffering self, then the tension would move upwards and settle in a higher spot closer to the neck, repeated same noting, noticing not self in the sensations, as soon as the noting made that clear the tension moved up to the head, then repeated same noting and it stuck in the third eye, again, started wavering and pulsating/pushing pleasurably upwards, towards crown, then dissapated and the tension moved back to the stomach..
I repeated the same sequence again, and the same result occured, with the tension going from unpleasant to later more pleasant in the head region, then more clearly obvious 'nothing in this body is me' (forgot to note that), and waves of energy rushing upwards, filling the body, very strong, eyes rolled back and fluttering, trying to note what I could, lasted for 10 seconds, maybe a bit longer, then started back at the bottom...
Same process but it seemed to move up faster by itself, into the head, then a shift and something in the background was peaceful, surrounding, started looking at thinking directly, noting was in the background, it kept stopping and after a while I would notice and start it up again, felt clearer, hearing, tingling, rising, falling, thoughts dancing across a screen almost, very peaceful. Turned towards peace, noted it, just more sensation with a thought of self attached, bell rang.
more tomorrow..

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but I have seen numerous references to 'Mahamudra noting'.
Kenneth, where could one find info about this approach?

"Not meaning to hijack this thread, but I have seen numerous references to 'Mahamudra noting'.
Kenneth, where could one find info about this approach?"

Hi Yadid, in post no 27 & 29 in my log Kenneth gives a short explanation.
And there is also a podcast on the topic.

Hi Yadid,

Here are the quicky instructions, cut and pasted from the other thread:

I've been teaching my students what I call Mahamudra noting. The technique involves listening for the ships in a distant harbor, understanding that you will not hear them. You note "listening" in order to remind yourself to return to the primary object (which is the activity of listening for something that can't be heard) and also as an acknowledgment that you are listening in any given moment. You also note the mind states and other phenomena that arise while you are listening. It tends to bring up mind states of openness, receptivity, joy, bliss, well-being, metta, compassion, mudita, equanimity, and other pleasant mind states. Highly recommended, and it works especially well when noting with a partner.

To understand the ships in the harbor technique, listen to the dharma talks here:

kennethfolkdharma.com/2011/04/nyc-talk-m...ships-in-the-harbor/

And here:

kennethfolkdharma.com/2011/04/nyc-talk-choice-19-april-2011/

7 hours noting on the cushion... zonked.

Some observations - last night I woke up three times and found myself smack in what was obviously some DN stuff. The first time I woke up my entire body was vibrating with fear - my mind didnt care so much, but it was there. A small bead of sweat on my back as I lay on my side somehow freaked me out/adrenaline as I lay there. I went back to sleep somehow. Then I woke up and had a different feeling all over my body, where I felt almost sick somehow, the feeling pervading the whole body, even the arms. Later I woke up and had this whole body discordant/jangled energy...

Started the sitting this AM in misery? mode, feeling of sickness pervading everything, light nausea, noting it... Somewhere through the day I ran out of juice somehow and slipped back down, to where I know not, even though things began to get clearer and more settled.. Noting sensations, some mental 'stuff' , tiredness..

I think next time I will do alternating hour sits with half hour walking meditation to stay fresher.

OK - I'm going to throw this out there, after looking at what cycles and states I see and have been able to recognize. This of course is subject to change and things will always 'do what they will', of course, but here goes - how does my experience fit?

1. M&B - Either the thoughts split off by themselves, and the mind is 'over there' or there is this strong sense that everywhere within the body there is no 'self' to be found, or at least it has nothing to do with the mental sense of 'me'. Can be very nice at times.

2. C&E - Either old memories pop up, showing me how mental habits still in effect may have occurred from decisions and causes way back, OR, (my guess here) I see intents to move or think that I normally am not aware of, like the intent to think or daydream that occurs before I find myself in the middle of a thought chain.

3. 3C's - Chakra madness. I get this often painful contraction that starts at below the navel and works its way upwards, and the mind is triggered to think different types of things based on where the contraction is- with some variability. Sometimes I get what feels like an esophageal cramp as the contraction moves from the heart up to the neck area (where it usually starts an aversion loop). From what I can see now, the best way to move through this stuff *is* to see the three C's of the experience, noting triples seem to be useful so far...I think there is a baseline level of concentration required to do this enough to get through it.

4- A&P - seems that once the energy moves up to the head and is noted/seen thru things can go a few different ways. Listing what seems to happen for me: An EE or what feels like 'everyday second jhana' that lasts about ~45 minutes or so, a weird 'unknown' event that results in a burst of energy upwards and extremely strong awareness and concentration and feeling of

energy in and surrounding the body that lasts for at least a day, resulting in a really harsh DN the next day, a 'fake equanimity' where most everything in body and mind is seen as not self, but the mind never gets slippery like it does in EQ and the sense of OKness isnt very strong, which ends in rushing waves of energy going up in the body, and finally a sort of 'fizzle' where the energy votexes or crawls around up in the head somewhere in an intense, pleasurable way but kind of dies down after that, sometimes leading to strong kundalini filling the spine.

5 - Dissolution. -Not very sure here, may have only really felt this clearly once, after a 'falling away' A&P, where awareness felt very strong still but somehow things got fuzzy, even the body..

6-10 So far these seem to be very whole-body states for me, Like the feeling of the nana pervades the body completely. Seems to be OK to just hang out with the sensations and not get looped up in the reaction to them. Not sure if I have experienced 10 for sure but if I have I would guess it feels like madness and kettle drums or something.. we will see.

11. I *think* I have touched low EQ once or maybe twice. There seems to have been a spontaneous surrender moment somewhere previous to this stage, in my experience. Awareness seems wide, open, thoughts come and go, sometimes so quickly they cannot be pinned down, but they all occur in the present moment and have no effect on anything. Pervading sense of peace/OKness. Maybe - I will have to see this more clearly in the future.


Whats cool is to see that in some way the maps are traversed in the same way the arc is - Its like a rocketship being fired from a rubber band or something. I start at the bottom and the momentum of the rocket carries it up to the highest level it can reach and then it falls back down. I dont seem to notice the return trip though yet...

55 minutes noting this morning...
Apparently this morning was 'notice silly conditioning'...
noting rising, falling, thinking(?), rising, falling, hearing, seeing, contraction,
thought chains, spinning,
noting first some thoughts of 'i cant do this', looking more closely reveals a very strong desire that keeps arising to make a problem out of the 'me' and out of the mind. Noticing subtle intent arising to create a problem where none exists, to get lost in fixing it or wallowing in 'i cant fix it'..

also played with keeping *all* the notes for a few minutes the length of the sensation, as if somehow the noting was a continous mantra with no breaks while looking at the object. Jury still out..will try that again.

55 min noting at lunch...
Rising, falling, hearing, tingling, tingling/pleasant, tingling/pleasant, desire for pleasure, thought about jhana,
rising, falling, rising, falling, self doubt, thought about trying to keep self doubt from arising, rising, falling
tingling, sexual fantasy, desire to think about sex, rising, falling, hearing, pressure, pressure (in head)
- noticed a contraction in the head with a dead spot in it, noted dead spot, tried to feel into it. Not yet I guess.
impatience, desire for session to be over, impatience, rising, falling, Bell.

Very interesting description of your nana investigation, WSH3. It will be interesting to see how your sense of this develops. Sounds like you have a strong practice!

thanks - I also have a strong desire (that needs to be noted!) to know the unknown and understand how this stuff actually works.. Its easy for my personality type to get obsessed by knowledge, but I think practical knowledge is useful and the more I note the more that stuff loses its hold. Heck just seeing how powerful the noting practice is is enough really, although I am grateful for the maps after having terrible DN stuff over the last few years. I can rememebr walking around for days with anxiety and fear permeating my whole body and asking myself the question 'what if it is always like this?' (that actually helped surrender, thankfully). Thankfully I am a bulldog and never gave up some sort of practice! I am glad to have found you guys.

Noting out loud *is* way effective! I dont think my skills were up to it before but now its amazing.
60 min noting out loud.
noted rising and falling, lots of hearing, looking, hearing, then noticed images of failure, thoughts 'i cant do this', contraction, contraction, over and over, then thoughts of resistance, more rising, falling, lots and lots of tingling in the head area, contraction in the stomach, a few itches, more thoughts of resistance and then the whopper underneath - thoughts of 'I dont want life' 'I dont want this moment'. The basic human problem! - as I noted out loud the thoughts and my surprise to seeing them so clearly an area of the head broke into tingling, mildly pleasant with waves of tingling on the surface of the skin all over the body, all noted out loud. Experiencing was more direct and clean than I remember it for a long while. The sense of pushing back at life was less than usual, for sure. I was just here, noting. Thoughts of 'is this all there is?' and 'this is it!!?', more rising, falling, hearing, and the bell.

I am astonished at how effective the out loud noting practice can be. I also did it on the car ride home, and it was actually enjoyable.

Honestly Kenneth, you need to write a book about this stuff, along with your tips for people along each way of the path. I have been struggling for years to see things more clearly and this is really working for me!

Thanks.

"Honestly Kenneth, you need to write a book about this stuff, along with your tips for people along each way of the path.
"

I've often thought that, too. It would be great to have all the tips and techniques organized and in one place. I doubt if there's a book like it. And great to give to others. On the other hand, maybe Kenneth is writing his book in the lives of all the yogis he mentors.

3x30 min noting.
rising, falling, fearful images, buzzing, vibrating, tingling, contraction, aversion,
-pretty similar all three. Fear buzzing all over the whole body, not so bad when I could just reside there. Found it was more useful today to take more of a whole body feel than a single point at a time - I could feel tingling and vibrating and buzzing all over, moving and shifting, the mind full of fearful thoughts and resistance/aversion. Tried to note some doubles but kept forgetting to do that. Difficult to stay on track.

keeping a fire going, noted on and off all day, and during a hike.

sat and did a 90 minute session of noting, first hour out loud.
rising, falling, hearing, hearing, thinking:fear of failure, tingles in various parts of the body (pretty much anywhere I look turns to that sensation lots of the time anyway, like lots of little dots flickering on and off, randomly)
found some strong tingles in the right hand, focused on them, saw them undulating with the pulse, almost breathing, some vibrations mixing in as well, the tingles grew strong and harsh for a bit, noted tingles/pinpricks/unpleasant/image of suffering person a few times,
then everything started to speed up a bit, and there were more thoughts flying by, more than I could note or see clearly, tingles all over, some buzzing, noted thoughts of 'me being the experiencer' , some subtle thoughts defining awareness, then noting stopped, just watching, confusion in the mind, thoughts of 'who am I then?' , unknown mind states, rushing shivers and tigngles surging through the body, some up to the crown, then lessening, back to noting.
This repeated 3-4 times in this sit, the pattern of noting up to seeing more subtle thoughts that try to define awareness, then lots of tingles and rushing energy, more and more thoughts seen as coming and going, not me, confusion, questioning 'then who ??' , coming back to noting, then stabilizing on the breath only for a while.
daydream, rising, falling, lots of normal thought chains like {insert bad thought here, self judgement, thought of trying to not think first thought, desire to be better, fear of failure, image of despair}, some reaction to the chains in the body but not very noticeable, some self congratulatory thoughts, thoughts of wanting approval, more rising and falling, some thinking, through to the bell.

I really like your nana descriptions. You are doing great progress by the sound of it!

Antero.