John's practice

Thanks Laurel, that would make this work worthwhile for me if I could extract myself from the drama of my own mind. If I can't get the full end of suffer the Buddha talked about, I at least want less suffering.

2 x 0:30 commute noting, not very focused. 1:00 kasina, much better this time. Not the deep concentration I've had, but a lot better than the last few days. Noting on and off. Nothing new with the kasina, just the usual, except for feeling some bliss, a wave going from my feet to my head, and things got a little light, and the word "benediction" kept going through my mind.

"... when I experienced that first shift that Laurel has recently described, it fundamentally changed a lot of things for me. I had no idea what to expect, but suddenly discovered a well of patience and compassion I had not known before. "

That is exactly what I need, exactly what I am after, thanks gira, you and Laurel have encouraged me and made it easier to go on. Thank you!

2 x 0:30 commute noting. 1:05 and then another 0:15 with the kasina. Concentration is getting stronger, so I put in as much time as I could. The constant distracting thoughts have gone silent for the most part, and I can note or sit in silence, which is nice. The kasina does the usual. Some vibration coming back. It's like I have nothing to do but wait.

1:00 kasina. The hindrance of being tired seems to be gone, because I only had four hours sleep but didn't feel sleepy during the meditation, which was good. Not great, but good. I had seemed to be touching on high equanimity, and then fell back, and now I think I'm getting back to equanimity again. There is a lot of shimmering. Since I have my eyes open, looking at the kasina, I don't know if this is the same as "vibration" ... but a week or so ago I was definitely getting vibrations, like everything was vibrating. I guess it doesn't matter, the process is what it is.

It seems boring to repeat, but some helpful people like more details, so I will go through my sit.

I sit down, look at the kasina, and almost immediately go into a slightly different state. Often the kasina immediately splits into two images, and often the white "countersign" image arises right away. Typically, I will get lost in thinking about something I need to do, then I will say "Oh well" and return to the kasina, focus again. The kasina will often have the white image arising out of it, sometimes very solid and sharp and clear, but translucent. Sometimes blurry, and just sitting in the center of the kasina. Sometimes the kasina is dark and has a bright white halo. Often there is a violet haze around the kasina, it moves around, like clouds or plasma. Sometimes the kasina is occluded and disappears. Often it seems to have a little fuzz around the edges. The kasina is usually split. The images are sometimes overlapped, but more often they are apart, and moving closer or farther constantly. If I blink they always move closer. Sometimes they both disappear, but not very often. All this has become typical, and it doesn't mean anything to me. Sometimes there is a shimmering around the kasina.

Sunday: 1:00 kasina, good focus, pretty typical good session.

Monday: 0:45 kasina, bad day, lots of personal issues bothering me, distracted with my problems. I could focus on the kasina, but I would find my mind miles away. I brought it back over and over, but it was just hopeless.

I haven't been eating much or sleeping. I am full of energy day and night, so even after not sleeping I still function OK the next day. I'm still not tired. But it isn't positive energy, it is a lot of worry, anxiety, and heartache.

The only really unusual thing that happened was that when I tried to lie down and rest, I had some very powerful vibrations that surged upward, seeming to go out of the top of my head. Then again, maybe I just dreamed that. I think I slept for a few hours afterward. I didn't feel particularly different than before.

1:00 kasina. Much better focus today. Nothing special, just the same stuff that normally happens in a decent sit. I'm beginning to wonder if there is anything else to the kasina, if maybe I should just go to closed eyes noting instead.

2 x 0:30 commute noting. 1:00 kasina with noting. Now that my focus is back I'm getting into some very focused and clear states, but nothing different from before. It's just the same stuff, over and over. That leads me to a question: Is there any point to noting if your mind is perfectly still and focused? When I get into the better states, I can have no thoughts at all, and isn't the point of noting to keep the brain too busy to wander around? When my meditation gets good, there is no wandering, there is nothing -- unless I keep noting, and then there is the annoying noise of noting.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

I would drop the noting when it gets to the point of being in the way, and practice open (or "choiceless") awareness. If it feels natural to you, then that's the time to do it. If you find your mind wandering after awhile, take up the noting again.

"I would drop the noting when it gets to the point of being in the way, and practice open (or "choiceless") awareness. If it feels natural to you, then that's the time to do it. If you find your mind wandering after awhile, take up the noting again. "

Thanks, that is what I have been doing, but I wasn't sure if maybe I should keep noting because maybe that was important to make progress. When my mind is still and silent it definitely feels right to let the noting drop off. Then, like you say, when my mind wanders I can note again, and then if it keeps wandering I can note out loud. That's the way I'm doing it. I guess I just haven't seen any changes in quite some time, so I wondered if I was doing something to impede my progress. Just my normal impatience showing up again!

0:30 x 2 commute noting. 2:00+ kasina. The super hard concentration is back and I can really lock in. Last time I think I was getting into high equanimity, so I'm not wasting this opportunity. It is very effortless, and requires no noting to keep my mind still and focused. The only thing I used for reference was my favorite quote from Krishnamurti, that basically what I seek is not within the known, not within the mind, no with any form of thought -- that truth only frees the mind from its own bondage.

So even the slight straying thoughts were seen to be leading away from the freedom I want. I kept my mind focused on the truth. It was intense, and I plan to put in as many hours as possible while I have this kind of focus.

3:00 kasina with some closed eyes noting. I gave it all I had, my concentration was good and I didn't have many distractions. I tried surrendering everything in open awareness. The first two hours went by fast, but then my eyes became really dry. I closed my eyes and tried to continue with the open awareness, but it wasn't the same. I opened my eyes, but they were just too dry to continue with the kasina, so I closed my eyes and noted for the rest of the time.

I don't know exactly what I'm expecting, but I guess I expect something. I got nothing.

Three hours is a long sit, so I was hoping to see a little progress. The only thing in any way interesting was that I had one of the rotten animal carcass visions cycling through disgust. Most of the time the cycle for me is very quick and subtle, but this time the disgust was more textbook.

Are these long sits worth it? At least I made good use of my high concentration cycle, before I go back to being miserable and completely distracted. I didn't really feel any high equanimity, which is what I was hoping for. I had started to feel the vibrations and energy a few weeks ago ... now it's pretty faint if it's there at all.

It's great that you are making good use of EQ. Sometimes the hardest thing is to use it gently. It might be worth re-reading what the final phase of high equanimity is -- it's actually a very plain state, even close to boring.

Most? some? yogis, including myself, tend to make too much of the vibrations, use a lot of effort to stay in that state, and judge success by the vibrational intensity. It's very good to be aware of them, experience them very closely, because that leads to "building the muscle" of attention and concentration. But they should also be allowed to come and go without worry. The job is not to get into any state, but rather pay gentle, close, and inclusive attention.

Hope that helps in some way.

p.s. -- I've never done much kasina work, but I've read about people that are able to switch to a "visualized" kasina. That might help your eyes on a longer sit. If that seems interesting to you, maybe others can describe how to do it. (Probably it's a simple as imagining the kasina???)

p.p.s Your sit was actually pretty good, it would be hard to say you got nothing. Just the "hard" version of the disgust nana is a pretty good insight. Those kind of symbolic, complete insight packs a lot of wisdom in a brief experience. And you are doing this all as an off-retreat lay person!

"The job is not to get into any state, but rather pay gentle, close, and inclusive attention.
"

That quote is worth writing in large print on a sheet of paper and taping to the bathroom mirror to re-read six times a day. Easy to forget, important to remember.

PS, yes, "visualizing" is basically the same as "imagining." I haven't done much kasina work, but I've done a lot of visualizing in magickal work. To visualize something, don't strain or be tense, just relax and imagine it. You may in time "see" it as if behind your eyelids, but seeing it in your "mind's eye" is sufficient, in my experience. Some people get really hung up on "really seeing it" like they are watching a movie. I think it's not that important. If a person with no arm is asked to pretend to/imagine lifting a glass of water from the table, it triggers the same brain signals as if they did have an arm and were actually lifting the glass.

What do you understand by insights, John? It might be that progress manifests in other ways than your concepts of it, so if you could describe it. Also, some changes are only really obvious to me in retrospect, like a tendency to silence, less restlessness and a greater ability to listen.

Also, is it just me, or is disgust the nana most given to clear images. Some of the clearest images i remember from meditation are of disgusting things.

"
What do you understand by insights, John? It might be that progress manifests in other ways than your concepts of it, so if you could describe it. Also, some changes are only really obvious to me in retrospect, like a tendency to silence, less restlessness and a greater ability to listen.

Also, is it just me, or is disgust the nana most given to clear images. Some of the clearest images i remember from meditation are of disgusting things."

I guess by insights is that I expect to understand, or view, something differently than before. But in retrospect, I can see, and others can see, many positive changes. So even though I am not aware of any special insights, you must be right in that things are shifting.

Two 1:00 kasina sessions. I had great concentration, but I just seemed to get to low equanimity and no higher. I tried noting, and a lot of fast noting, hoping that would move things along. Nope. I tried some suggested insight pointers. Nothing. Everything is very boring. The kasina does very little. I am not distracted, not many wandering thoughts, no itches, pain, or emotional issues. It really feels like I am doing nothing, and nothing is happening. The time passes quickly. It is not blissful, but there is no problem with the state. I don't feel any third-eye pressure. The kasina stays steadily split at the same distance instead of moving. Very little is happening. I feel like I should be doing something more ... but maybe not. I'll just keep on with it for a while and see what happens. But I am getting bored, very bored, with it.

John, Keep in mind that when nothing seems to be happening and you're bored and feel like you're spinning your wheels, necessary work is being done beneath the surface. It may also be frustrating to want to get to Stream Entry and here you are limping along in some kind of mind-numbing whatever, but all you have to do is follow the instructions, keep your eye on the ball (so to speak), and not get distracted by whatever anyone else is doing. It sounds like you're on to this already--good. I just want to encourage you to see whatever is happening as what needs to be happening at this point in your practice. I'm pretty amazed that you got yourself through a 3-hour sit. I've never done that, personally, and don't see myself doing it, although it could happen someday. But you are obviously a dedicated practitioner and are working through your path just as you need to.

Uh, boredom is high equanimity. The fact that you're sitting for 2+ hours supports that.

Thanks for the encouragement, Laurel. I'm keeping at it.

Nadavspi, I was wondering, especially after today. I don't see how my meditation could be any better: great focus, almost no distractions ... all I have to note is breath in, breath out, and ears ringing, sometimes my heartbeat or I can feel my pulse in one of my fingers. If I want to let go of noting, I can just sit in open awareness. Oh, and the time flies by. I usually sit for an hour, but I was still in the zone at 1:10 when I was interrupted. I could have gone 2 hours easily.

So if I'm in high equanimity, what now? It is pleasant enough, and easy to do ... so I just carry on? Isn't this close to the goal? I notice some shimmering and maybe a little vibration, but I don't feel any excitement like anything is about to happen. It feels like it should, but the time just flies by and it's over. I am already pretty relaxed, just going with the flow. Is there anything else I should do?

Steep in it. Enjoy it. Recognize the 3C's in everything. You have done the work, now just let it work you.

"So if I'm in high equanimity, what now? It is pleasant enough, and easy to do ... so I just carry on? Isn't this close to the goal? I notice some shimmering and maybe a little vibration, but I don't feel any excitement like anything is about to happen. It feels like it should, but the time just flies by and it's over. I am already pretty relaxed, just going with the flow. Is there anything else I should do?
"

Yeah, just carry on. If noting starts to feel heavy, drop it and just pay simple attention to what's going on. Very basically, you need to be looking at stuff, not looking for stuff.

The stream entry moments will likely be unexpected. Going looking for it is often counterproductive. Relax, enjoy the sights and sounds. Just hang out. There won't necessarily be a big buildup and may not require a clear sit, or even good concentration for extended periods. All it takes is for things to line up in the right way for just a moment.

Consider reading Ron's description of Equanimity on his site. He includes some suggestions on what to do.
alohadharma.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/equanimity/

OK, thanks everyone, I took the collective advice and just took advantage of more great sitting. 2 x 0:30 commuter noting. 1:05 kasina. Just awesome focus, noting what little came up, mostly just breath and ears ringing. My ears are always ringing, varying pitch, and there seem to be about three different sounds all going at once, it's actually a lot to note if I really focus on it. Very little straying thought. Completely in an inclusive state where there is no separation between me, the kasina, the environment, or what I note. Even loud noises don't perturb this state. As far as I know, this is as good as it gets. I've certainly never had a better session.

I noted the expectation, the frustration, the impatience, when I was waiting for something to happen. Relaxing and enjoying the deep meditation more, but I still keep thinking it's going to happen soon! I'm trying to forget about it, and settle in for weeks, months, years, or however long it takes.

2 x 0:30 commuting, 1:05 kasina. Just like yesterday, maybe even better. Never had a better session.

2 x 0:30 commute noting, 0:20 kasina interrupted, followed by 1:00 kasina. Rock solid, few thoughts or distractions. The only new thing I could possible include is the occasional pinpoint of bright light. These just started fairly recently are coming more frequently -- a spot of bright light somewhere in my visual field.

Friday: 2 x 0:30 commuter noting, 1:00 kasina. Not quite a perfect as the past few days, a little more thought, more distractions, noting of itches. No pinpoints of bright light, if those meant anything. I assume they were just artifacts. Still, a very easy hour of meditation. I'm not going to go through the usual again. It was the usual.