John's practice

So what I did during this period (and you don't have to - do what feels right to you) is every time things settled into stillness like that I'd pull out the pointy stick and start poking around. Everything, just as it is....so "What's missing?"...did dissatisfaction arise? If so, return to "investigate it like a microbe" practice above. If not, try another question: "What if this is all there was ever going to be for the rest of my life?"...did dissatisfaction arise? ... if so, investigate as above, if not try another question, such as "Who is experiencing this stillness?" and so forth. Sometimes a question would result in no visceral reaction, so I'd try another until I hit on a question that caused a reaction. Then I knew I'd found the "tender spot" and I'd investigate, perhaps sticking with the same question for a few sessions, or until that question ceased to bring up a reactive response.

"So what I did during this period (and you don't have to - do what feels right to you) is every time things settled into stillness like that I'd pull out the pointy stick and start poking around. Everything, just as it is....so "What's missing?"...did dissatisfaction arise? If so, return to "investigate it like a microbe" practice above. If not, try another question: "What if this is all there was ever going to be for the rest of my life?"...did dissatisfaction arise? ... if so, investigate as above, if not try another question, such as "Who is experiencing this stillness?" and so forth. Sometimes a question would result in no visceral reaction, so I'd try another until I hit on a question that caused a reaction. Then I knew I'd found the "tender spot" and I'd investigate, perhaps sticking with the same question for a few sessions, or until that question ceased to bring up a reactive response."

I thought the idea was to let go of the dissatisfaction. If the idea is to bring it up and examine it, that should be very easy -- I didn't even sit yesterday because it has become so tedious. I thought surrendering was letting go of dissatisfaction. I guess what you are saying is that surrending is just letting it come up, and examining it carefully. I don't even have to meditate to feel the dissatisfaction, I feel it right now.

When you looked at dissatisfaction the other day, you noticed it was just sensations: "I studied the sensations. That's all they were: brief sensations."

The same applies to tedious, boring, calm, tranquil, happy and every other single thing in your experience.

You don't need to make it go away or show up. It will come and go all by itself (as you have noticed). You don't need to generate it, dwell on it, or push it away (allowing it to be just as it is). But I suspect the *close observation* of the sensations/phenomena is helpful to keep you more attentive to the moment.

I think you are (my guess) a very practiced meditator who can easily get into (or is prone to seeking) a tranquil steady state and just stay there, but it's a bit of a trap for you if that arises because it's a comfort zone. "Ah, now it's nice and quiet, this is how it's supposed to be, I'll just chill out here." So if things seem quiet, look harder (the questions can help find things to look at by triggering unrecognized reactions).

If there's already dissatisfaction, then you've been handed a gift to work with - keep studying it and noticing how insubstantial it is. Not because it matters, really, but because it will lead to other insights. Two cents, as usual.

(edited for typo)

1 hour yesterday. Great focus. I investigated the dissatisfaction that arose, and naturally as soon as I did it disappeared. The same with anything else that came up -- upon investigation, it vanished. Soon I was left with nothing, sitting in stillness, so then I started with the questions. "What if this is all there is ever going to be for the rest of my life?" A little dissatisfaction arose, but when I examined it closely it disappeared. "What's missing?" Nothing came up. Ultimately the questions led back to silence again, and I felt a little joy. It felt more positive, like when I first started hitting equanimity.

1 hour yesterday, 1 hour today. Focus very good yesterday, not quite as good today. For better or for worse, I still look at my kasina, though it doesn't do much of anything now. It is very stable. I look, it splits into two side-by-side images, and then it stays that way with very little variation. When something comes up, I examine it, then it usually goes away. What can I say -- things arise and pass away. I note any attachment, and examine the attachment.

The only thing remotely interesting was that today I was struck by the oddness of thought itself. What is thought? What is the voice inside my head? How does it work? Why is it there? Then thought went away for a while and there was silence. Then it would sneak back, and disappear again upon examination.

I tried doing this with every thought, every sound, every vision that arose in my mind.

Another day, another hour. About like yesterday, only with more vibration towards the end of the sit. A lot of silence and stillness. Asking the "What's missing" type questions doesn't seem to bring anything up.

40 minutes today, plus a 30 minute walking meditation earlier. My attention is very steady and deep. I have insights, but then I can't quire remember them, if that makes any sense. It's like they can't be talked about or remembered really, only experienced. Lots of silence and stillness. Later in the sit thoughts wandered in, so I did some noting.

1:05 yesterday, 1:10 today. My mind was wandering a lot, so I decided to get back to basics and note out loud. That led to some really deep states, and the reluctance to leave them is why I kept going over my usual hour. I think a lot of subtle chatter had slipped in with my usual silence and stillness approach. I can detect it starting up if I even note too redundantly. It is like the monkey mind is constantly waiting for a chance to slip in, even just a whisper, just an image. Noting out loud works, so long as I stay aware and don't fall into mindlessly repeating the same series of notes.

The deep states were like increased space, detachment, distance from anything personal, the sameness of all objects, a sort of union of all things, without a center. Hard to describe, really.

40 minutes yesterday. It was so hot I couldn't focus very well. I noted out loud and noted silently. I noted the heat and the sweat. It was like my skin was on fire. The air felt very cool on my face and arms. Oddly enough, when I ended the sit and stood up, I wasn't drenched in sweat at all, and it didn't feel so hot anymore. Very strange.

Hi John,

Just a thought- you said here: "I think a lot of subtle chatter had slipped in with my usual silence and stillness approach. I can detect it starting up if I even note too redundantly. It is like the monkey mind is constantly waiting for a chance to slip in, even just a whisper, just an image. "

Could it be that the "subtle chatter" that slips in to your silence is actually a sign that your inquiry is begging to move past being satisified with states of quietness?

Space and silence are just states, experiences with their own characteristics, with exactly the same value as chatter, distractions, etc. Your concentration is strong, and you're becoming interested in knowing that experience and its characteristics, rather than just luxuriating in it. This is a good thing!

We give this poor "monkey mind" a hard time, but I think the way the teachings about samatha are phrased give the false impression that the mind's desire to morph and change will somehow stop at some point, when we get good enough. In fact, mental activity doesn't diminish at all. But if you follow the mind where it insists on going with attention, the capacity for that activity to cause pain does diminish.

"Could it be that the "subtle chatter" that slips in to your silence is actually a sign that your inquiry is begging to move past being satisified with states of quietness?

Space and silence are just states, experiences with their own characteristics, with exactly the same value as chatter, distractions, etc. ..."

Worth writing out and taping to the bathroom mirror.

Thanks Rob, in my past Zen practice I did attempt to "let no conceptual thought arise" and so I do still tend to judge states that way.

I didn't sit Tuesday, but I did an hour yesterday. Again I was distracted and lost in thought a lot. Finally I had to note out loud just to keep from daydreaming the whole hour away. I suppose I should just keep trying to maintain awareness, but my attention was wandering off into long planning sessions and fantasies. I don't think you are suggesting that I just give in to my wandering thoughts, but some days I don't notice that I am lost in thought for many minutes -- so what should I do?

I say just keep sitting Probably just part of where you are on the path. I have had many moments of this and somehow after days of this happening, as long as you keep sitting, clarity returns.

Everything is a gateway. Can you tune into how wandering thoughts self-arise? Even if it means you get lost many times, no big deal, that's the price of going through that gateway.

"I don't think you are suggesting that I just give in to my wandering thoughts, but some days I don't notice that I am lost in thought for many minutes -- so what should I do?"

Looking back at your journal, it looks like you had a cycle of strong insights about a month ago, a cycle of stillness in the last couple of weeks, and now there's a cycle of agitation. And so it goes.

At times like this, it does seem like waiting for ease and confidence to return is all you can do. But even then, the same process is going on- your mind boils away, and you learn about it, whether through stillness or through agitation. They are both temporary states.

I'm a fan of being easy on yourself at these sorts of times. As I mentioned on a previous post, you can take your sitting time and use it for something else like a walk or housecleaning. Or else, commit to do something intense like out-loud noting, but only for 15 minutes. Or practice in some totally different way, preferably irreverent or fun. In fact, I'd be very curious how you'd "give in" to thoughts. Maybe it's worth a shot! In your next session, just lie back and tell your thoughts to come at you with all they've got, and if you catch yourself *not* planning or daydreaming, then *insist* that your mind start doing so immediately!

ALWAYS be easy on yourself.

Thanks for the advice! I took a few days off and focused on some new software I have been working on (my idea of fun), and then sat for just thirty minutes yesterday. I'll try to ease back into my usual hour instead of forcing myself every day. I'm a little bit goal oriented in case you haven't noticed ; )

OK, well instead I took about three weeks off. It seemed to be going fine at first, but over time I seemed to deteriorate back into being more stressed and egocentric all the time. It's definitely better to keep up the meditation. Yesterday I did 30 minutes. It was really strange at first, kind of painful. It was like my mind was being bent back into shape. However, by the end of the sit I was feeling calm and relaxed again, and seemed to be getting back in the groove. The time seemed to drag, even though I was only sitting 30 minutes. My mind was full of noise for most of the sit, which was probably from taking such a long break.

30 minutes yesterday. Obviously I'm having trouble getting back into a routine. It was relatively easy and the time passed quickly. I've decided to focus on metta and positive noting, as my mood has been very depressed lately.

30 minutes yesterday. Yes, only 30 minutes every ten days isn't really a practice. I'm trying to get back into it. Metta and note postitive. My mood is better now.

Any is better than none! Build back into it slowly and do some off cushion practice too.

good stuff, John. This is gonna sound lame, but don't sit down to meditate for the entire week. Just meditate today, and let tomorrow take care of itself.

Managed 40 minutes on Monday. Was doing metta, but eventually just fell into deep silence. Mind wandered some, I noted it and went back to awareness. I hope to do more today, maybe I'll set a new minimum to just 20 minutes, or 15.

45 minutes yesterday. Still looking at my kasina but doing compassion meditation. When my mind wanders, I just note positive for a while. Still trying to re-establish my practice. I feel aversion when I think about sitting, but the sitting itself is fine. Maybe I can do another 20 or 30 minutes today. I wish I could feel the same hope that I used to feel when I thought meditation would make my life a lot better. It has, actually, but now I've habituated to the improvements and I'm dissatisfied again.

Welcome back, John. During parts of my practice I became aware of beliefs I had that turned out not to be true. Do you hold beliefs like "if I am satisfied with things right now and grateful for all the good things in my life, then I might stagnate in half-a$ery instead of reaching an imagined perfect goal that's out there somewhere" or "winners never quit, quitters never win" or "don't get too comfortable with your small successes or you'll be a failure" or other stories we are fed growing up or by our culture, etc.