Nadav's practice notes

Dark night stuff yesterday and this morning.

1 hour sit this morning: frustration, anxiety, DOUBT (mainly about practice). Bright itching. Following the breath, relaxing and noting other things that take my attention. More pleasant as the sit went. Very blissful at points, several moments of spontaneous joy & laughter. A natural rhythm: eyes close, more absorption & subtlety, absorption fades, eyes open, "mundane"/gross phenomena (pressure of the leg, itching, hunger, etc).
Two energetic hotspots: in the forehead and in the throat. Pressure and vibrations in those spots throughout the sit. Still feel pressure there now.

Starting with yesterday's later sits, things are OK. I am again drawn to watching the breath while noticing & letting go other stuff. Sometimes I note as usual, sometimes I note the rising & falling of the abdomen, but for the most part just watching the breath silently.

This most recent dark night episode exposed lots of attachment and striving about progress and my haughty confidence as a meditator. Lots of doubt and questioning about the maps (can this stuff really be universal? am I just scripting all of this? is it even beneficial to think about?), technique/approach to practice (Mahasi vs Chah, as it has been characterized here before), my goals and purpose (am I just seeking altered states? will I like where all this is going?), Kenneth as a teacher, the value of these reports. It was frightening and confusing for a couple of days. My feeling right now is that I don't know, and that's fine.

It has been exactly a year since my first meeting with Kenneth. I am extremely grateful for the past and present members of this community, Kenneth's instruction, and all that I've learned (or not) during this time.

Nadav, you have an amazing practice from the entries I've read; your dedication is inspiring. Doubt arises, and it's hard -- probably the toughest of the five hindrances, because it can cause the mind to spin farther and farther out, and it's the hindrance that's most likely to lead to abandoning practice. However, you're also asking some great questions (i.e. goals, purpose). For me, map thoughts are more often unhelpful than helpful. It's nice to have a map, but it's stressful and dangerous to read a map and drive at the same time. In practice, I believe the most important 'thing' for us to have trust in is our experience, the most important thing is not our interpretations... If there's tingling, there's tingling... -- if you can trust that level of experience, that can go a long way. Glad to hear you have some accepting don't know mind.

As I've played around with objects and noting, my vote for the most powerful place for insight practice, on balance, is the rising and falling of the abdomen, noting with the double note technique. I resisted the mental noting, because I tended to think, and was taught, that noting was a tool for staying present (which is good but I felt OK about that part of practice, so I usually went without noting). I later came to realize (kind of embarrassing how slowly) that I needed to be paying really close attention to both the passing away moment of the noting mind and the physical sensation in the abdomen; without noting, I was missing an important aspect of the mental process arising and passing away. But results vary as conditions are always changing, so it doesn't yield consistent results each sit.

Are you getting any multi-day retreat time in?

May your joy increase.

Thank you for your thoughts, throughline. Can you explain what you mean by "the passing away moment of the noting mind"? Also, the "double note technique" simply refers to noting everything twice, yes? Rising, rising, itching, itching, etc. What is the advantage of this over noting once, in your experience?

I haven't sat any multi-day retreats yet. I did a one day retreat yesterday and left thinking that it's time for something longer. I hope to do a 10-day goenka course in August, the soonest my schedule will allow.

I'll start with the easier question first. The double noting technique is as you've said: rising, rising; itching, itching. Each double note is followed by a gap of maybe half-a-second to a full second and then the next note: itching, itching or what have you. These days in my practice, I find that length of gap is most helpful in clear seeing. Here, I believe that one note per second is more useful than the machine gun noting, because there's important learning in the 'gap' and the more rapid approach is beyond my skill level or I start missing the falling away moment or something. So, a sort of pulsing starts to take place: note-note, no note; note-note, no note; note-note, no note. I'm sorry if this seems like the ultimate in fine points, but after playing around, this seems to be the most 'productive' for me. I believe these details are all pretty straight up Mahasi, though I don't recall/know for sure.

Now your questions get harder. I wish I was still on retreat for best clarity and precision to answer. In my experience, and it's just that, the single note somehow isn't enough exposure to the arising and passing of the noting mind. So, if I just do one note of rising for each upward motion of the abdomen and then another note for each downward motion, there's not enough exposure to the noting mind. If I do a triple note, it gets too repetitive and there's a slackening of attention. If I do constant noting, there's a blur of noting to the point that the arising and passing isn't clear enough -- at least for me. So, one double note for each rising and one double note for each falling. With the noting following the rising and the falling or tracking right with it, not getting ahead of it and anticipating it. So the noting begins when the physical motion begins (or a moment later) and ends when the physical motion ends (or a moment later). To be continued...

So on to the toughest question. Moment to moment, there's an arising and passing of body (body process) and an arising and passing of mind (mental process). So on the body side of the rising and falling of breath in the abdomen, the breathing starts to be seen clearly as segmented or as little segments, when attention gets focused on the abdomen. This is just part of vipassana: What is compound breaks down into bits, pixels, elements, sensations, vibrations, etc. One feels all these little movements, like stretching or releasing an elastic band as the abdomen rises and falls. Those are lots of little arisings and passings to be mindful of. Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but I feel like this set up will help me answer your question. And of course, I'm open to correction as it's a learning process on the practice itself and a whole other learning in how to communicate about it, and as much as I struggle with practice, I struggle with communicating about it even more.

So, as you make the note of the rising of the abdomen, watch the note arise and watch the middle of the note. Then watch as the note passes away -- when you're no longer saying the note. So, as the word goes from 'ri' to 'si' to 'ng' (rising), watch the passing away moment as the 'g' in rising 'slips' away. And the same for falling: 'fa' to 'lli' to 'ng.' Now, you could point out that there are lots of little arisings and passings away even in the 'fa' of 'falling,' but I haven't found that level of microscopy to be useful to pay attention to throughout the whole note, although it can show up without any effort on my part eventually. In terms of watching the note arise, in the middle and pass away, showing up with my most superb mindfulness is really critical for the passing away of the end of the note. To be continued...

Bringing it all together, be especially mindful of the zenith and the nadir of the breathing in the abdomen, the very top of the motion and the very bottom of the motion... Be especially mindful of the very last abdomen movement downward and the very ending of the noting mind that notes that body movement. Same on the upward motion, be especially mindful of the very last abdomen movement upwards and the very ending of the noting mind that notes that body movement. So, you're being especially mindful of a body activity passing away and of a mental activity pass away. Pay close attention to both.

To be clear, I'm not saying to zone out the rest of the time or don't be mindful of everything else going on in between the zenith and the nadir with the little segments of abdomen sensations and the activities of the noting mind. Those should get attention too. I'm just suggesting to really show up at your absolute highest level of presence for those endings and passings away.

All I can say is that this has helped me. It totally changed my relationship to noting. My speculating mind says that I'm more attached to my mind than my body; I was more OK with body processes dis-integrating than I was with mental processes dis-integrating. So, my practice naturally focused on the body processes, however, it left a shadow side around mental processes; doing noting (and I've only played with silent noting on this, not out loud) brought mental processes more into the foreground with the body processes to be clearly seen. Without the noting, the noting mind (mental process) wasn't seen vividly enough, at least by me. This seems to also facilitate a deepening of the nama/rupa insight and the succeeding insights for that matter.

Things can get weird or wild or interesting pretty quickly with this technique. Hope that's at least somewhat clear, pragmatic and helpful. Let me know if I could be clearer.

Thank you so much for your comments. This makes a lot of sense and I will experiment with it and see how it works for me. I focused on the rising and falling of the abdomen today (in my sit this morning, with the group tonight, while sitting in class and other random moments). At certain points it is difficult to find the physical sensations without forcing it but for the most part I was able to get into the groove of it. During the morning sit I saw what you described as the stretching of an elastic band: the movement appeared slow and intervallic.

Yeah, throughline--very interesting and thorough comments. Thanks for taking the time to give Nadav such a thoughtful answer.

You're welcome guys. Upon rereading those posts, I wish I'd been clearer on some points, but it seems good enough to practice with. However, one general point for correction is that those posts have too much selfing and striving explicitly or implicitly in them. Generally speaking, it seems more helpful to practice in the spirit of 'it happens' or 'this is happening' rather than 'I'm doing this' or 'I'm going to do this.' The sensations in the abdomen are happening; the noting mind is happening. Better to step (back) into awareness/let the sense of separate self relax and let the arising and passing of rising and falling sensations and noting mind disclose themselves. The striving can push things forward some, but ultimately, that quality of energy eventually pushes back and causes a ton of suffering -- or such is my experience.

Glad you're looking at a longer retreat nadavspi. Goenka retreat sounds good, and there seem to be some helpful pointers in the forum about how to augment or otherwise handle the experience presented there. Wish I'd had those pointers when I attended a Goenka retreat. You're fortunate to know so much going in.

By the way, thanks for introducing me to a new word, intervallic. I like it.

Still sitting a lot. 4 sits on Monday, 3 yesterday, 2 thus far today. Usually an hour in the morning, and then 30 or 45 minutes later. I'm not very militant about it - meditation is more pleasure than chore right now. I believe that I'm generally hanging out in equanimity, working up to 2nd path.

Mumuwu suggested (on voxli.com/kfdchat which you should all use) that I get to 4th jhana and start noting from there. Per his suggestion, I become aware of the entire body and the breath, steeping in any pleasant sensations that arise (piti). This gives rise to happiness (sukha) which again grows by attention. That's the idea anyway, though sometimes I just sit feeling the whole body and let the rest unfold as it will. This has shown me that I'm really bad at discerning the different jhanas. Doing so was very easy while in review after stream entry, so next time I'm there I'll spend more time exploring the territory. Whether or not I get to 4th jhana doing this practice, it seems to be helping and isn't as strenuous as kasina practice, right now.

For example, in my first sit yesterday, after a pull from the top of the back of the head, I started noting in what seems (in retrospect) to have been 3rd jhana. I was a little spaced out and noting seemed inaccurate and sluggish. The focus was wide, but there was perhaps more emphasis on the periphery. Towards the end of the sit, things opened up more and noting became faster and more flowing - objects presented themselves in succession.
I spent the later part of the day abiding in panoramic attention while walking around. My perspective was very wide and inclusive of the environment.

I've been experiencing very subtle vibrations or flutters in the head over the past few days. These come up sometimes during formal meditation or just randomly in the day when I get a little concentrated.

Today, noting has felt like a hindrance and I've been drawn to just sitting as described above. I sat a few minutes ago doing this, and noticed a few shifts. Things were nice at first, then some shoulder pain, then a little wider focus but still very much anchored in the body. Wanted to move around a bit. Things got a little hazy. I looked for the 3rd jhana handles and couldn't really find them. Gave up on that. A little anxiety. Pain became more apparent again and I straightened my posture but was slumping again within a second. A couple more shifts. Eventually, no pain. Felt calm and clear. Started noting: spaciousness, contentment, gratitude, mapping thought. It felt strained so I stopped noting. Towards the end the vibrations in the head started.

Sounds like you've made some definite progress since your last post. I'm sure you'll have 2nd in the bag in no time!!

Something is happening. I think I'm in review.
In my sit this morning, I noticed that suddenly the whole body came into focus and I was more awake. The entire body was felt very clearly, as one thing. This happened once or twice.

I sat again this afternoon and this same shift was more pronounced. I'd be fairly absorbed, with wide attention and suddenly the visual field was brighter with coarser strobing/fluttering and a forward focus. Not the pointed focus of 1st jhana, just a focus on what's happening in front. More alert, joyful. This happened maybe 3 or 4 times within a 35 minute sit. I was a little sleepy before the sit but felt alert and energized afterward.

I have a recording of Kenneth walking me through the jhanic arc in review phase A. I listened to it yesterday and couldn't follow along at all. I just listened to it again. When I closed my eyes starting out, strobing/fluttering and some pulses in the head (yep, still there now). I followed along with the recording to 4th jhana, becoming more absorbed. What I felt matched what I described feeling on the recording: subtlety all over the body (different vibrations and strobes), wide attention (hearing distant noises), contentment, etc.
I turned to the visual strobing/fluttering and it became more and more pronounced as I did so. Multiple pulses from different points in space swirling around. I looked for the endings of the packets and I was sucked upwards very dramatically. Energy rising quickly in the body. Then, release. Shwoop. Gross happiness, coarse vibrations. Much more alert. Wow. I'm still very blissed out.

Nice.

Congrats Nadav!
I missed when you attained first path, Could you direct me to the post # ?
Need some inspiration

Hmm, post 190. I was sure of it around #201.
בהצלחה ידיד!

תודה רבה חביבי

Way to go!

Awesome, Nadav!

I believe this was 2nd path. If I close my eyes right now, I get strong strobing/fluttering in the visual field and pulses in the head. If I stay with it for a couple of seconds, joy arises.
I had a great session with mumuwu and omnipleasant on voxli yesterday. We started by recalling the fear nana and then guided each other up to equanimity by sharing what was happening. In high equanimity, I get a little bored and restless. I was watching the fluttering of the eyes, particularly the endings. There was a buildup - some anxiety and activity in the chest. Then, a sudden bliss wave rising up the body. There's a definite upward pull and then a release. Coarse vibrations. Very quick.

In class after the session, I remained quite absorbed. It took some effort to pay attention to the lecture, but I definitely noticed when I was going through the dukkha nanas.

I watched the video of Nick and Kenneth riding the jhanic arc on Thursday and listened to the first Hamilton podcast yesterday. I'm definitely getting 5th and 6th jhanas, probably getting 7th, and I'm not sure about 8th. Paying attention to space/expansion while in 4th jhana takes me to 5th and then the shift back inward to 6th happens on its own.

I made a 5 hour drive yesterday. I spent virtually all of it (and the rest of the night) dwelling as the witness. I started out asking "for whom does this arise?" or something like that in place of noting. E.g., a thought arises, I ask and it loops back to that spot in the crown where 6th jhana is centered. I actually found myself asking this question in bed just after waking up this morning, when I'd usually start noting.

Congratulations!!

That's great!
Congrats!

Sat with the local group tonight. 2 x ~25 minutes followed by a dharma talk.
First sit, super drowsy.
Second sit, felt more awake after a few minutes of yoga. Resolved to review the arc in the sit. Pulses and vibrations in the head at first. They became more pronounced. Brightness in the visual field, feeling good.
A sudden shift, like a jump up in concentration. The visual field (eyes closed) was somehow closer to the observer (?). Awareness was wider but kind of... flat, one dimensional. Very interesting. Felt pleasant, excited.
Some wandering thoughts here. Coolness on the skin. Still lots of pulses and vibrations everywhere.

Started to feel on edge. Some nastiness in the stomach. Tension in the body. Very different vibrations... can't describe it but they had a different 'shape'. Felt like I was slouching and couldn't straighten up. Some sudden jerkiness in the arms. Desire for deliverance was clear. Things became a little wider, slight relief, then again like before one after another. One of my clearest tours of the dukkha nanas thus far (or I'm better at scripting it).
Some clarity, wide attention. Still some unpleasantness in the body but this faded shortly. Very wide. Relief. Inner smile. Ahhh. Some wandering thoughts. Watched the fluttering in the visual field. Had the buildup to a fruition (head pressure, upward pull, felt like coming up to the edge of a rollercoaster drop) but couldn't tell if it actually happened or not and the gong rung immediately afterwards.

[cont.]

Dharma talk followed. Lots of vibrations and pulses carrying over from the sit. Very clear with few wandering thoughts for the first 20-30 minutes of it. A wave of negativity with facial pressure/grimaces, nausea, disgust, frustration. Then a blissful wave through the body on an exhale. Bright itching soon after and then the forward focus of 1st jhana with some subtle visual/light patterns like I'd get after a couple of minutes of kasina practice.